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King Song 2017 plans


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1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

It's laziness I think. Far easier to globally ban something than actually putting any effort into investigating ways to make it safe and legal. These people need (constant) reminding that it is their job to safely enable the things that humans want to do, not to tell them they just can't do it.

 

The problem is there's no incentive for governments not to just ban everything new. Anything new only has a small amount of users so there's no risk of losing votes and banning things requires no research or effort. Western transport regulation is a mess, it operates as everything possible was invented by around 1960. You still have light aircraft running unreliable carburetted motors because it's too costly to have fuel injected ones approved by regulators.

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2 hours ago, lizardmech said:

The speed restrictions make no sense, I can easily ride a unpowered bike above 40kmh but somehow riding an ebike above 25kmh is dangerous and must be banned. To me it mostly looks like protectionism as cheap lightweight EVs threaten automakers.

Such speed restrictions make a lot of sense. Sure, constructive speed restrictions typically don't apply to human powered operation (other speed restrictions do, BTW). But that makes constructive speed restrictions in themselves neither sense- nor meaningless. They save many human lives. 

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2 minutes ago, Mono said:

Such speed restrictions make a lot of sense. Sure, constructive speed restrictions typically don't apply to human powered operation (other speed restrictions do, BTW). But that makes speed restrictions in themselves neither sense- nor meaningless.

They don't make sense if they cause hazards and introduce new risks. If you have ebikes and EUCs sharing bike lanes having cyclists weaving through them at 40km/h is a stupid idea. Likewise 25km/h is too fast with pedestrians around, it's far more effective to train people to travel at an appropriate speed then try and solve the issue with a single speed limit for every situation.

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4 hours ago, lizardmech said:

They don't make sense if they cause hazards and introduce new risks.

You have to weigh the introduced risks with the prevented risks. Saying, "oh, there is a new risk to it, so it doesn't make sense" doesn't make sense at all.

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If you have ebikes and EUCs sharing bike lanes having cyclists weaving through them at 40km/h is a stupid idea.

Very few cyclists do this and e-cyclists can do this as well (they don't have a speed limit just like cyclists don't). Both would have to weave through all the other cyclists who go typically not much faster than 20km/h. At least this is what the numbers I have seen from Copenhagen and Seattle show. 

By now I have seen many, many electric bicycles around and I am almost sure that they drive on average faster than solely human-powered bicycles.

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Likewise 25km/h is too fast with pedestrians around, it's far more effective to train people to travel at an appropriate speed then try and solve the issue with a single speed limit for every situation.

Sure, maximal speed does not equal to minimal speed. Limiting the speed according to the given situation is mandatory irrespectively of constructive speed limits.  

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13 minutes ago, Mono said:

You have to weigh the introduced risks with the prevented risks.

Very few cyclists do this and they would have to weave through all the other cyclists who go typically not much faster than 20km/h. At least this is what the numbers I have seen from Copenhagen and Seattle show. 

Sure, maximal speed does not equal to minimal speed. Limiting the speed according to the given situation is mandatory irrespectively of constructive speed limits.  

Rules are ment to be broken , it takes common sense to use euc among pedestrians (going slow)  , when there is no people around then I can go faster , for each new euc user who takes the euc instead of a car suv then we make our earth a little greener healthier , it is still under developement , to almost everyday talk about global warming in media and the end of the world because of pollution and in the same time ban new clean means of transportation is plain stupid and is a proof our leaders dont really care about global warming at all , and soon all oil reserves will be empty , solar panels and euc is the future

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It will be interesting to see how this speed limit will be implemented. I think a speed alarm that can not be disabled would be the best for EUCs, and you may of course not disconnect the beeper.. It could also have optional vibration. If you ride too fast it will beep and/or vibrate. And it will be up to the rider to not overspeed, like with cars. I guess in a short slope you could speed up for safety reason in a bikelane as cyclists behind you may not expect you to brake in this case..

Simply limiting the speed of the motor works on mopeds and ebikes, not on an EUC! This has been discussed many times over and over here. The only other way except acoustic and/or vibration alarm I can see is enforced tiltback, but that is not foolproof. If you hit a pothole or some some bumps causing too much forward lean, while in tiltback, you might slip down the back of the pedals, or not be able to apply enough force on the front of the pedals to accelerate, if the pedals are tilted back too steeply, so the wheel won't correct your overlean...

It's problematic (impossible) to take over control from the rider using tiltback without any risk, as it must disrupt balance to a degree and the wheel can not know what is happening to the rider. It might cause an accident that would not happen without tiltback, or to a lesser degree vibration. If implemented well it might be worth the risk as a last resort enforcement method. But it's still up to the rider to not abuse the tiltback speed buffer, similarly as not riding above the alarm! With the difference that the alarm is safer as it is only a warning system, while tiltback is an override system.

But that's maybe another general discussion not specific to Kingsong's lineup here...

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3 hours ago, nomad said:

It will be interesting to see how this speed limit will be implemented.

I agree, it is an interesting technological challenge and I wouldn't be surprised if we will see new and better solutions to it in the coming years.

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I think a speed alarm that can not be disabled would be the best for EUCs, and you may of course not disconnect the beeper.

I don't think legislation will count acoustic alarms as construction/design based speed limit. It would allow to sell EUCs which do go 60km/h and won't prevent idiots to go with them 60km/h while adding to the noise pollution. In case you didn't know, at this point in time, traffic noise pollution is suspected to kill more people than traffic accidents. That kind-of suggests that acoustic speed warnings will have to go away anyways. 

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There are already speed limits for electric bicycles & eucs , electric scooteers , it's up to the driver how fast he wants to go , if he goes to fast and they measure that speed then there is a bill to pay , I dont se this as a problem with speed , almost all sorts of vehicles can go faster than allowed speed limit , it's upp to the driver to follow the rules , if someone is to afraid to enjoy the ride because of speed and rules laws then maybe its better he try something else like bus or a slow caorusel in a tivoli , for younger kids parents can control max speed with an android app

BMW caorusel

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13 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

I think the challenge is that EUCs are not just used on roads, but sidewalks, paths, and indoors.  They may eventually need proximity detectors like atonomous robots. 

What would a proximity detector actually do for an EUC ? I'd say we always know when we're close to stuff...

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9 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

What would a proximity detector actually do for an EUC ? I'd say we always know when we're close to stuff...

But what if you get knocked off and the wheel is upright?

Just thinking about how they could be made safer in unexpected circumstances. 

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8 minutes ago, Flash said:

is it possible ?  I think the wheel will fell and stop

Yes it's possible. Wheels have traveled a long way with no rider. Some are probably better than others. Having a reliable 'rider' indicator would be good too, but that would limit tricks so it would be nice to have it controllable.  Not saying it would be common, just have to make non-riders comfortable since you want to share the same space, sometimes in close proximity. 

It's a challenge for sure, need to keep regulations to a minimum. 

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39 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

Yes it's possible. Wheels have traveled a long way with no rider. Some are probably better than others. Having a reliable 'rider' indicator would be good too, but that would limit tricks so it would be nice to have it controllable.  Not saying it would be common, just have to make non-riders comfortable since you want to share the same space, sometimes in close proximity. 

It's a challenge for sure, need to keep regulations to a minimum. 

I dont want to fell because a safety invention is malfunctioning , but one way to solve this would be to connect the wheel with a thin cable to your body with a magnet at the end and a magnet sensor in the euc that disconnect shuts off the euc if you fell off and the wheel is still standing , wireless would be better but can also be unsafe if it disconnects while driving without any reason , i think no one here at the forum have had this experience and thats a proof that it almost never happens , its a bigger danger for the euc driver to invent bad inventions ,   for example , all hunters here wants to kill all Wolfes , they blame the wolf to be dangerous but no wild wolfes has killed a human here , hunters also blame Wolfes to kill hunting dogs but its a very small number compared to hunting dogs being killed in traffic and by hunters themself when they cant shoot straight and maybe need glasses , the real killer here is something hunters dont wanna talk about , its elk  running up in front of cars and killing people in accidents every year , or how they sort out the mosquitoes and allow elephants

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2 hours ago, Flash said:

I dont want to fell because a safety invention is malfunctioning , but one way to solve this would be to connect the wheel with a thin cable to your body with a magnet at the end and a magnet sensor in the euc that disconnect shuts off the euc if you fell off and the wheel is still standing , wireless would be better but can also be unsafe if it disconnects while driving without any reason , i think no one here at the forum have had this experience and thats a proof that it almost never happens , its a bigger danger for the euc driver to invent bad inventions ,   for example , all hunters here wants to kill all Wolfes , they blame the wolf to be dangerous but no wild wolfes has killed a human here , hunters also blame Wolfes to kill hunting dogs but its a very small number compared to hunting dogs being killed in traffic and by hunters themself when they cant shoot straight and maybe need glasses , the real killer here is something hunters dont wanna talk about , its elk  running up in front of cars and killing people in accidents every year , or how they sort out the mosquitoes and allow elephants

Yes certainly one has to be sure the rider's safety is not compromised as he is the one who is in danger most often.  In fact it one of the reasons we need more powerful wheels and higher speeds, as sometimes you need them to avoid or get out of dangerous situations.  When I looked at how the drones thing unfolded though I'm quite sad.

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Its a problem when governments say one thing and do the other , drones they blame to threaten privacy , it must be better to legalize them and take them who use it in the wrong way , i read its not even allowed to disconnect from the power grid in US , some people have all electricity they need from solar panels , in sweden they banned drones recently and it affects all the companies who use them professionally in work to , metal detectors was banned a few years ago when we had right wing government , its better to legalize them and let people have some fun and restrict those areas that is important and ofcourse if they are afraid of artifacts dissapearing then we already have laws against that , important things for our history and treasures must be declared , with Nikon Coolpix P900 star-4.gif  you can see details on the moon 80x zoom and its still legal , obviously there are still some areas the bureaucrats are afraid to touch and its good , some politicians in Stockholm even suggested a ban for internet , they said its not a human right to have the internet , everybody must pay for television and radio and in the same time they connected all this shit to supercomputers and listen to private conversations in peoples homes trying to brainwash people from media television together with time travel technology , I say they should pay us instead for this shit , ban stupid politicians police military from altering media with high tech technology ment to zombifie a whole nation.
A good citizien dont ever leave his home , he watch tv , listen to radio and read the news and if you travel alone in the world someone might always ask , why is he here , he doesnt live here , maybe bureaucrats love euc because of its low range and speed , then they can control us all but for me its not a choice in hell , I will use both motorcycle and euc or I will choose to go on my motorcycle instead

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On 22/12/2016 at 9:15 AM, Flash said:

There are already speed limits for electric bicycles & eucs , electric scooteers , it's up to the driver how fast he wants to go , if he goes to fast and they measure that speed then there is a bill to pay , I dont se this as a problem with speed , almost all sorts of vehicles can go faster than allowed speed limit

There are two distinct ways to legislate speed limitation. Either like with cars and motorbikes requiring a drivers licence and a speedometer. Or like with electric bicycles, mopeds and (soon) EUCs requiring a constructive design which limits the (powered) speed. I think this distinction is pretty universally found all over the world. In the latter case it is not up to the driver how fast (s)he wants to go, which is a good thing as it prevents people from dying in accidents. 

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On 12/21/2016 at 5:12 AM, Mono said:

There are two distinct ways to deal with speed limitation. Cars and motorbikes require a drivers licence and a tachometer. Electric bicycles, mopeds and (soon) EUCs require a constructive design which limits the (powered) speed. I think this distinction is pretty universally found all over the world.

I assume you meant 'speedometer' ?

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5 hours ago, FreeRide said:

A tachometer measures RPM (revolutions per minute) not speed.

Unless your speedometer is broken, and you put a piece of paper on the dash with rpm's converted to mph in top gear;)  Like 2000 rpm is 60 mph and so on.  

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  • 2 months later...
On 18.12.2016 at 4:05 AM, Chris Westland said:

I propose this as a new metric for visualizing the "risk" at EUC speed: Equivalent Bones Fractured (EBF)

I am going to eat less in order to loose half my weight so I can double my speed! Then I will not die from cardio-vascular disease, nor from the impact when the EUC throws me into the tarmac at 70 kph, but most probably from cutting my head in two due to a too wide smile :D

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