rdalcanto Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Hi Everyone! I ordered a Ninebot One C+. I've watched hours of youtube. I was really excited until I came here and started reading about cut-outs and face plants. I guess I should be happy the C+ doesn't have a very high top speed compared to some other products. My concern now is that I live up a 1.5 mile long hill, over 400 ft high, with some steep grades around 12-15% thrown in. That means that if I want to go anywhere with my EUC, I will be going down a long hill right from the start. Will this work with a full battery? I know it can't use regen to slow me down when the battery is full. Can it power the motor in reverse to brake for me? Will that cause anything to overheat and shut down unexpectedly? Maybe I should have just bought a hover board and been happy riding that inside my house.... I have gone from so excited that I couldn't sleep last night, to freaked out in the last hour. I would appreciate any and all wisdom from the members here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Whoa chillax... Ninebots are generally pretty safe, but you could just get a Charge Doctor to charge up to 80-90% and then ride down the hill from the get go. Or just ride around a bit before heading down the hill. I have a feeling that you have to go at a fair speed downhill to get enough current to regenerate the battery. From some current graphs it looks like the reverse current only gets to about a third of the maximum current so going downhill likely doesn't charge a huge amount unless you're going downhill for quite some time and at a fast speed. @The Fat Unicyclist can probably comment as he lives up a hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 52 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: @The Fat Unicyclist can probably comment as he lives up a hill. Well yes, I do live on a (fairly steep) hill. And I'm quite happy to comment on that, and pretty much everything else too. Let's start at the beginning though... Don't let this site worry you. Consider it your best opportunity to share and ask and learn and laugh. We are all pioneers (or early adopters at least), and this community is one of the best resources you will find to understand the stuff you need to know. Now, where was I? Oh yes, on a hill... @Hunka Hunka Burning Love was right. One of the best things you can do is get yourself a Charge Doctor. Not only will it assist in maintaining your battery, but it will allow you to charge to a certain point - which based on your detail would be about 90% (my best guess only). That should allow you to ride directly downhill at a good speed without any additional concern. Personally, I have a different approach - I charge my wheel at work, then ride home (up the hill) and back (down) to work to recharge. This is a great option, but it doesn't always quite work out. And I have been caught up the hill with a full charge... And I have ridden down (250m over 2.5km) on that full charge without any issue too! Being fat, I am much more suceptible to gravity, and because of that I don't ride fast when going downhill - momentum is not a good look on me. And I have learned that going slower downhill does not regenerate anywhere near as much energy as going faster - in fact, going as slow as I can still consumes energy. I think of it like a scale - holding still on the hill will use energy, going down fast will make more. Somewhere in between the two there is a neutral point, and all I need to do is stay under that mark. That way I shouldn't overcharge and cutout. There are lots of opinions about this in other threads, with lots of theories - but this is my experience, and it seems to be working out for me so far. I suggest you start out on the flat to burn some battery off, then ride downhill from your home and measure your descent - stopping regularly (to ensure the correct battery readings) and see how the numbers go up and down... Learn your wheel and get the feel for how it behaves. Most of all, take it a little slow - running off while going downhill (with all that momentum) is a bitch - so slowing it down covers you both ways. Other than that, have fun and enjoy yourself - just be warned, electric unicycles are real chick magnets, so expect to get just a little molested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 @rdalcanto, excellent advice (as ever) from @Hunka Hunka Burning Love And @The Fat Unicyclist Bottom line is that, as early adopters, we are always looking out for problems and that can seem to exaggerate them which isn't the intention. The intention is that we are all informed what might happen so we can choose to be cautious in our approach and wear suitable safety gear etc or, indeed, choose not do so. Odds are your wheel will handle what you throw at it fine but it certainly doesn't do any harm to wear simple safety gear: at the very least wrist guards and a cycle helmet and, if there is any chance of the wheel bouncing off down hill and damaging property, a leash so it stays with you. You may never need any of them but they will, at the very least, help give you confidence! Being nervous you might get hurt will, in itself, spoil the experience and result in a much longer learning curve. In the year I've been riding I've come off twice: once when showing off and braking too hard with a full battery and once clipping a bollard with one peddle, both occasions were the few times I wasn't wearing wrist protectors and both times the only injury was a sprained wrist and a few bruises. At 61 years old, I guess it can be assumed my reactions aren't what they used to be :-). Neither dampened my enthusiasm at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuts Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Humm interesting... I always thought that going downhill charges your battery only because you are actually breaking (Hence the name regenerative breaking ) but because the hill is so steep even while you are breaking you are still actually moving forward and only when this happens does the recharge takes place. So if you are going down hill fast and not actually breaking to slow you down you are not doing any charge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Thank you for the great replies everyone! I forgot to post that I'm around 170 pounds. At 46, I'm not sure how much of a "chick magnet" I will become on my EUC. Maybe an old hen magnet!?! I will definitely wear wrist guards and a helmet (I'm a surgeon, so my hands are everything). Is there a Charge Doctor that you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 8 hours ago, rdalcanto said: Hi Everyone! I ordered a Ninebot One C+. I've watched hours of youtube. I was really excited until I came here and started reading about cut-outs and face plants. I guess I should be happy the C+ doesn't have a very high top speed compared to some other products. My concern now is that I live up a 1.5 mile long hill, over 400 ft high, with some steep grades around 12-15% thrown in. That means that if I want to go anywhere with my EUC, I will be going down a long hill right from the start. Will this work with a full battery? I know it can't use regen to slow me down when the battery is full. Can it power the motor in reverse to brake for me? Will that cause anything to overheat and shut down unexpectedly? Maybe I should have just bought a hover board and been happy riding that inside my house.... I have gone from so excited that I couldn't sleep last night, to freaked out in the last hour. I would appreciate any and all wisdom from the members here. Thanks. Welcome to the club! It's very wise of you to watch and read up on EUC's before you begin to ride because you'll be much more prepared to learn boundaries of your wheel and thus avoid to do stupid things 8 hours ago, rdalcanto said: ...so excited that I couldn't sleep last night, to freaked out in the last hour. ... Don't freak out! Be excited! You'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 50 minutes ago, rdalcanto said: Is there a Charge Doctor that you recommend? They are made and sold by a forum member - @hobby16. The page for them is here... http://hobby16.neowp.fr/buy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Chuts said: Humm interesting... I always thought that going downhill charges your battery only because you are actually breaking (Hence the name regenerative breaking ) but because the hill is so steep even while you are breaking you are still actually moving forward and only when this happens does the recharge takes place. So if you are going down hill fast and not actually breaking to slow you down you are not doing any charge at all. I think this regenerative thing is mixed up on some very dark magic, that no one can easily understand... I should comment that "my hill" is fairly steep - allowing cyclists to reach +70km/h - so I have never actively accelerated down the hill. Doing so, I doubt I would be able to brake and actually stop! So I am basically braking the whole way at varying degrees. And while I don't have any flash logging options, I have made a study of it and realised that I can either generate or consume power depending on my speed - or should I say the amount of braking that I am applying. My feel for what is happening is that with gentle braking, the battery does recharge (somewhat) - I observe this on the straighter / smoother parts of my hill, where I brake less and allow my speed to increase. But on the steeper / winding / uneven parts I need to brake significantly more (one part I don't think I could stop, even from a slow speed) - and it is on those parts that I observe the battery is discharging. On the flat, the electrical charge being put in moves the magnets on the wheel, but when the wheel rolls downhill, the magnets moving generates the electrical charge... But going slower generates less charge (than going faster) and holding the wheel back enough could actually require more energy to be put in than is being given out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Otal Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 My advice is to buy the extensible grip if you have little battery and you have to transport the wheel uphill, or because the alarm sounds overheating and you need to stop the wheel to cool a bit, another discomfort of the ninebot is that from A 20% battery the wheel forces you to go slower and the safety system tilbak is activated more and more, depending on the battery charge, ninebot is a great brand and very agily funny, but it is possible that over time Of account that needs a wheel more powerful and with a minimum of 820w, but segira wanting to drive ninebot for some moments or circumstances, enjoy the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 3 hours ago, Chuts said: So if you are going down hill fast and not actually breaking to slow you down you are not doing any charge at all. To charge it is enough if you brake while keeping speed, you don't need to slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe73 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 You will be charging the wheel any time the wheel is keeping you from going as fast as you would be freewheeling. Pretty much any time you are going downhill it's charging, not just when slowing down. And people have had the Ninebot cut out by starting at the top of a hill with a full battery. I would recommend starting at 50% charge the first time and seeing how much the battery has charged when you get to the bottom. Then you will have an idea how full you can charge it without overdoing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 23 minutes ago, Shoe73 said: You will be charging the wheel any time the wheel is keeping you from going as fast as you would be freewheeling. Pretty much any time you are going downhill it's charging, not just when slowing down. And people have had the Ninebot cut out by starting at the top of a hill with a full battery. I would recommend starting at 50% charge the first time and seeing how much the battery has charged when you get to the bottom. Then you will have an idea how full you can charge it without overdoing it. Plus there is some reserve too - ninebot showes 100% before the batteries are full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 5 hours ago, rdalcanto said: Thank you for the great replies everyone! I forgot to post that I'm around 170 pounds. At 46, I'm not sure how much of a "chick magnet" I will become on my EUC. Maybe an old hen magnet!?! I will definitely wear wrist guards and a helmet (I'm a surgeon, so my hands are everything). Is there a Charge Doctor that you recommend? You're a surgeon? And you want to ride downhill on a self-balancing, single wheeled made-in-China vehicle when your hands are everything? Gulp! Do you have your disability insurance all paid up? Just sayin' I would be very careful with these EUCs as a bad spill can put you out of commission. Ninebots are generally slow enough to keep you out of trouble I think, but there's always that risk factor so be extra careful. Injuring a wrist or wrecking your fine motor skills could be a career changing decision and not a voluntary one! 4 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: I think this regenerative thing is mixed up on some very dark magic, that no one can easily understand... As an avid student of the "dark arts" - I am able to say that I can pretend to easily understand it all completely. If you are riding forwards and it takes energy to keep you going there is no regenerative energy going back into the battery. If going downhill gravity assist will help the wheel move forwards so it doesn't draw as much power from the battery to drive the motor. When you brake to try to slow down while going downhill you are telling the motor to reduce it's forward drive. At one point there is zero current where gravity is driving the wheel forwards so leaning back to "apply the brake" is actually trying to drive the motor in a reverse direction. As gravity is still pulling the wheel downwards in a forwards direction while the controller is using energy to drive the motor in a backwards direction that current in the forwards direction is greater so it charges the battery. So technically you are using up energy to drive the motor in reverse, but the energy coming in makes up for that energy going out and any spare goes into the battery. Or so I think. Just putting that out there. Maybe I'm wrong - I'm just making this all up as a theory in my mind palace since it's too darn cold to ride outside! Physicsologists feel free to dispute me. Dispute away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: You're a surgeon? And you want to ride downhill on a self-balancing, single wheeled made-in-China vehicle when your hands are everything? Gulp! Do you have your disability insurance all paid up? Just sayin' I would be very careful with these EUCs as a bad spill can put you out of commission. Ninebots are generally slow enough to keep you out of trouble I think, but there's always that risk factor so be extra careful. Injuring a wrist or wrecking your fine motor skills could be a career changing decision and not a voluntary one! That is why I was freaking out a little. I can ride smart, and stay within my ability level to avoid a lot of crashes, but the idea of a shut down and face plant hadn't entered my mind. I am also a competitive cyclist. I prefer racing Mountain bikes over road bikes because on the mountain bike crashes are almost completely under my control (I can slow down if a certain speed exceeds my skill level). But on the road bike, I have to trust all the riders around me, so I prefer to only race hill climb events, where the speeds are lower, and everyone gets spread out quickly by the grade of the hill. I do have disability insurance, so I won't lose my house, but the income hit would not be good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I guess you have to weigh the benefits of the "fun" factor with the risks with any activity. Driving a car can get you into a pretty serious accident, flying in a plane could be disastrous if you run out of gas over some mountains, taking a helicopter tour could end up to be troublesome if that engine fails (although I hear @Rehab1 can autorotate you down safely). In general I find riding a Ninebot to be fairly safe, but I wear extra padding just in case. You get to a point in your skill level where an accident is likely minimal, but you still have to be prepared for anything. I would practice on some level ground a lot first before tackling more difficult terrain. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty safe going. Don't let the accidents you hear about on the board stop you from having some fun. Just look at @Greg Spalding, he's a physician, and he doesn't let that stop him from riding... although Greg? Greg? Ya still alive out there? Last I heard he was practicing on his ORGASM to master it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9Bot1 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 46 minutes ago, rdalcanto said: I'm a software engineer so I definitely understand your concern about hand injuries. Might I suggest you invest in a good pair of OH2 wrist braces, they'll run you $620, but worth it when you upgrade to a faster wheel (which WILL happen). http://motocrosswristbrace.com/ My first wheel was a Ninebot and I have to say it's very very very reliable and I'm glad it was my learning wheel. The 13 mph top speed (of my E+) is fast enough to be fun for a few years and not have to upgrade but also not cause too much injury if you happen to fall without any gear on. When you start going 20+mph the wrist brace and full gear is a must. I fell off a skateboard going 22 mph and had a bad knee injury for 4 months. I don't want to imagine what a faceplant at 20 mph feels like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 During my learning phase I fell while going about 0mph (poorly executed slow speed turn) and hurt my wrist - soft tissue injury, no bones or tenon injuries. I say this just to warn you that you shouldn't think going slow equals safety. Of course I wasn't wearing any safety gear because I was only practicing while going slow - dumb on my part. Other than that I have >700 miles riding the (apparently) dangerous Gotway machines with no visible injuries. Always wear a helmet and wrist guards and anything else you feel comfortable with. Knee pads and elbow pads have saved me much pain (if not injuries). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 22 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: And I have learned that going slower downhill does not regenerate anywhere near as much energy as going faster - in fact, going as slow as I can still consumes energy. I think of it like a scale - holding still on the hill will use energy, going down fast will make more. Somewhere in between the two there is a neutral point, and all I need to do is stay under that mark. That way I shouldn't overcharge and cutout. From on my own personal experience, I found the above statement most fits what I have experienced. I was ejected, politely with beeps and assertive tilt back, going down a long hill at about 15 kmh because my battery was full. When I stepped back on I was able to continue descending at about 5kph because, I believe the motor was using energy to stop me accelerating away with the slope. I would like a light on top of my wheel that lights when the current flow is towards the battery, and I know someone on this board has the skills to make that happen, I just haven't asked yet. Knowing when one is in regen mode would be really helpful, to either avoid it or exploit it. now, ABOUT THAT SURGEON THING. uh, Humm. ARE YOU INSANE MAN !!!??? Lack of speed is no guarantee you won't hurt your hands, or wrists, or ankles. Read the original post of the thread that goes something like " EUC and 240 pounds and hill = broken ankle" sorry I don't know how to link a thread, a little help someone ? in a nut shell, newish rider going down hill slowly, wheel cut out, breaks his leg in three places and tears all the ligaments off one foot. Can you see yourself performing surgery standing on an injury like that. My point is life is risky, why make it riskier. what's the path to surgeonhood in the US? good grades in HS, good grades in uni, med school, specialty training? keeping your nose clean, avoiding mal practice suits... from the age of 12 to about 30 you were working towards this goal. While others were earning, driving fast cars, dating loads of women, and having other fun you were STILL in school, and not just any school, med school. Deferring your rewards. Now, you may be minted, and not need the money, but if it was me, I'd lock those hands in a safe at night, and have them insured for $10,000,000, because that's my ball park estimate of your lost income from the next 20 years, if there is even a hint that you have lost some fine motor skills. I wear wrist guards and STILL injured my wrist. And as safe as you are, there's always that duck head cyclist, or jogger, or whoever, who suddenly changes direction, and down you go. It's not easy to jump out of the way on an EUC, you just jump and pray. yeah I know you ride bikes. But im saying find a different way. It's not worth the risk for you, and if you asked this question in a bar, friend to friend, that's what I'd say? There are two types of EUC riders those who have had an injury or three, and those who haven't, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 23 minutes ago, Smoother said: ... I was ejected, politely with beeps and assertive tilt back, going down a long hill at about 15 kmh because my battery was full. When I stepped back on I was able to continue descending at about 5kph because, I believe the motor was using energy to stop me accelerating away with the slope. I would like a light on top of my wheel that lights when the current flow is towards the battery, and I know someone on this board has the skills to make that happen, I just haven't asked yet. Knowing when one is regen mode would be really helps, to either avoid it or exploit it. Easiest way to implement this should be within 9bmetrics from @Paco Gorina or wheellog from @JumpMaster (which imho also supports ninebot?). first is for iphones, second for android... especially nice if one uses a smartwatch to see such awarning or better feel it (vibration alarm!?). unfortionately only ninebot sends the direction of the current (charging,discharging) - for gotway/kingsong the app would have to analyse the trend of the voltage to recognice charging/discharging and distinguish normal battery "regeneration" after a high load period from real charging... if one of both has time and the "desire" to implement such a warning and you use the right smartphone (pff.. quite many ifs ?).... but you can also right now just use the app and monitor the current while going down! And check voltage before going downhill if there could be any danger of overviltage cut-off ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Yeah that's helpful thanks, but I don't like having a fragile expensive item in my hand while riding. I like to keep my hand free for punching old ladies, ( just kidding) for falling. And while I'm watching it, I'm not watching the road for bumps and what not. A nice bright light is all I need, on the top near the front so I can see when it's on. Nice and simple. I'm ready for that now. Also my 9bmetrics crashes when I start a new log so I stopped using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 14 minutes ago, Chriull said: nately only ninebot sends the direction of the current (charging,discharging) - for gotway/kingsong the app would have to analyse the trend of the voltage to recognice charging/discharging 9botmetrics is displaying the amperage for my GotWay also in 2 directions...only With my Ks18 9botmetrics is not able to... so when looking at the app I can see if there is regeneration going on... and with that I have to say that on hills I only do regeneration when going slow....means braking against the hill as soon as I "let go" and don't fight against the hill anymore...the amperage switches and I am consuming energy... so in my view: the slower you go...the more regeneration you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Aren't surgeons supposed to be good at noticing little details? You might want to "re-surgerize" that thread title just a little bit... just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Smoother said: Yeah that's helpful thanks, but I don't like having a fragile expensive item in my hand while riding. I like to keep my hand free for punching old ladies, ( just kidding) for falling. And while I'm watching it, I'm not watching the road for bumps and what not. Yes - holding the phone in the hand while driving is not really the best idea, also i do it from time to time . But 9BMetrics supports the apple watch and wheellog the (now unfortionately dead) pebble watch. So the big question (at least for me) is now: 1 hour ago, Smoother said: A nice bright light is all I need, on the top near the front so I can see when it's on. Nice and simple. I'm ready for that now. Should be easy to make for someone who knows how to do this - is just another part in the current supply line which could inflict a shut-off in case of a fault... ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuts Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 @SmootherI think there are a few doctors that visit these forums on a regular basis who also ride EUs. Always a danger of hurting yourself so people should gear up and minimize injury. If you guys follow the FB page as well as some of the other electric unicycle pages there seems to have been a lot of injuries from the last 60 days. Some falls where from rider error and them loosing control so at least you have some time before you actually hit the deck or if you are nimble enough you can run from the EU. Others falls where from unseen environment obstacle such as pot holes which sent riders flying when their machines got stuck in the hole. No matter how seasoned a rider is a fall like this is practically unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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