SuperSport Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cloud said: It was very difficult to hold both the wire and the connector still while holding the soldering iron too. And the wire was short too so i had to hold the connector with my feet over the wheel. Things were moving around even when the flux while cooling. I will try to redo in a few days... Once you have smooth flowing solder, it must not move till set up. That movement while cooling cause micro fractures which break later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Here's a good video to watch. It's just a small example, but good info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Cloud said: It was very difficult to hold both the wire and the connector still while holding the soldering iron too. And the wire was short too so i had to hold the connector with my feet over the wheel. Things were moving around even when the flux while cooling. I will try to redo in a few days... You need to fix the connector, so you can hold the wire stable against one 'connector wall' and let the solder cool out wirhout 'shaking' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 15 hours ago, Cloud said: It was very difficult to hold both the wire and the connector still while holding the soldering iron too. And the wire was short too so i had to hold the connector with my feet over the wheel. Things were moving around even when the flux while cooling. I will try to redo in a few days... Get "something" to hold the wires & connector in place while soldering, basic "helping hands" shouldn't cost much more than maybe $5-10, but a stack of books or other heavy items could work also to keep things immobile: It's important that neither the wire or the connector move about while the solder cools and turns back to solid. The above is a bit bad example, as the other clip could be much closer to the end of the wire being soldered, to make it more immobile... Most of my pictures don't show it, but I always "attach" both the wire and the connector one way or another (helping hands, vise or some heavy objects) and place them so that they don't move about during soldering, here the other clip of the helping hands is above the picture, holding the wires: If using the "pre-fill" -method shown in the Pace-videos, I'd say helping hands are better, tighten the joints of the hands so that they stay still, but can still be moved about with one hand. Place the wire so that the other clip holds it above the cup, fill the connector cup, and while the solder is still liquid, grab the wire and stick it inside. Keep warming the connector, either from the side or with a thinner soldering iron tip, you can (usually) fit the tip partway inside the connector even with the wire inside (won't work with thick wires) so the solder stays liquid until everything is in place. If pre-filling, remember that it's always possible to add solder if there's too little, but getting any excess out is a tad more difficult Also, like the above pictures show, with connectors that are already moulded inside (usually) plastic housings, I always put both ends of the connector-pairs together while soldering. The plastic can get partially melted during soldering, but there's more metal to sink the heat, and the connector-pins/bulllets/whatever won't get misaligned, as the other ends keeps them in place (I've ruined a few connectors before I learned this ). There's probably a ton of example and tutorial videos, but they can only get you "so far", I'd say the only real way to learn is by doing, but of course it helps to know what to avoid or what sort of "tricks" other people have come up with and apply those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 On 12/15/2016 at 3:43 PM, Cloud said: It was very difficult to hold both the wire and the connector still while holding the soldering iron too. It is very important for the connection to remain motionless while cooling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 On 09/12/2016 at 7:10 AM, nomad said: There is no excuse, we are talking a 40 km/h vehicle that will drop the rider if it malfunctions! Even a secondary redundant backup CB won't save you if motor wires come loose, pedals break off or the wheel axle cracks... Talking to you Gotway and Kingsong!!! And this is EXACTLY WHY I'll never touch any of the GW product even with the large bargepole. Every single EUC from them is plagued with problems and non-existent QA. Such blatant disregard for customers safety or even life could be dealt with only approach - boycotting such manufacturer. The EUC market needs "clean-up" before government regulations steps in and smother any chances for proper legislation and use of EUCs. Sadly there basically no EUC manufacturer at the moment (maybe apart of Inmotion) with clean record of "safety" ... very very sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, HEC said: And this is EXACTLY WHY I'll never touch any of the GW product even with the large bargepole. Every single EUC from them is plagued with problems and non-existent QA. Such blatant disregard for customers safety or even life could be dealt with only approach - boycotting such manufacturer. The EUC market needs "clean-up" before government regulations steps in and smother any chances for proper legislation and use of EUCs. Sadly there basically no EUC manufacturer at the moment (maybe apart of Inmotion) with clean record of "safety" ... very very sad I think you're being way too hard on them. They are one of the few companies that give you new control boards for free if they fail, and although there are communication problems, once you get through to them they are usually very helpful. Of course we shouldn't have to do it, but now we know it's a good idea, is it really that much stress to take the cover off to check the wiring ? I love my Gotway, and I will continue to buy from them despite the occasional safety mistake they might make, which to be honest, we have to expect to some degree from any process where small teams of manually working humans are involved. It's a small price to pay for being on the cutting edge, and I am happy to pay it, though I do note that I have never fallen off my MS3 - perhaps my opinion will change if it ever fails me. So far, it has been flawless, and I've made it do some serious stuff ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, HEC said: And this is EXACTLY WHY I'll never touch any of the GW product even with the large bargepole. I agree with these concerns, however following this forum for a year now I don't have the impression that the other top popular brands are overall a more reliable ride. Broken axles, overheat cutouts, fried boards on Kingsongs, a variety of strange folding accidents on Ninebots... Of course the main problem is that it isn't at all easy to reliably assess brand-wise frequencies of technical failures which caused or could have caused accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Mono said: I don't have the impression that the other top popular brands are overall a more reliable ride. IPS is highly reliable in my opinion. I'm not saying IPS never has problems, but I think IPS has much fewer problems than other popular brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 30 minutes ago, MaxLinux said: IPS is highly reliable in my opinion. I'm not saying IPS never has problems, but I think IPS has much fewer problems than other popular brands. Sure....as since over 1,5 half years they did not bring out a new wheel and did not play in the GW, KS and Inmotion league any more, you dont hear that much ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 It has a tremendous amount to do with how they are being ridden. To date, in over 1000 miles, I have NEVER had a cut out, and I ride all the brands that are notorious for that (TG, NineBot, GotWay, and even a cheap generic). All brands, even Inmotion can cut out if pushed wrong. There is simply NOT a perfect wheel yet. I doubt there ever will be. It's like having a perfect Airplane or Space Rocket. You can get pretty good, but eventually, things fall or go boom. These aren't like 4 wheel vehicles where if there's a stutter in the motor, you simply roll on. If these stutter, you fall. That's not saying there could not be more quality control, because as we've already learned, there are issues on that department. But that happens in all the brands too, it's just that NineBot and GotWay are some of the more popular brands, so you hear about it more due to more of them being on the road. It does not hurt to say it though. "GotWay, please take more care when assembling your products! Our hard earned money and our lives are depending on it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagtenor Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 2:36 PM, yourtoys7 said: As much as I absolutely love EUC this type workman shift is horrible and unacceptable, Im starting to look at different type of scooter due cut out issues. I fell once and dont wont to do again. Gotway charging good money for their products, please change your practice or you will loose customers (its just a matter of time). Very well stated. And I agree totally. I'm an electrical engineer with experience in design and product safety. What I'm seeing here is atrocious and scary. I certainly hope this was just a one off bad example of wiring. Very disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 On 12/28/2016 at 9:38 AM, SuperSport said: It has a tremendous amount to do with how they are being ridden. I agree completely, if ridden on fairly smooth ground without sudden changes in speed that stress the BMS or the control board, they are extremely reliable. I think it is the surges in power that cause most of the cutouts, if the surges are kept in a certain range, all is good, but when the peaks and valleys get larger and larger from people pushing their wheel, it's almost like getting close to redline on a car, sooner or later something might give out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, steve454 said: I agree completely, if ridden on fairly smooth ground without sudden changes in speed that stress the BMS or the control board, they are extremely reliable. "Ignore those beeps, kiss the street" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Cerbera said: "Ignore those beeps, kiss the street" "A ride too fast, might be your last" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 "Lean too much, single crutch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 "Over-twist, broken wrist !" "Ride near cliffs, embarrassingly expensive clear-up operation". (are you listening, @Merrittous MonoWheel?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Cerbera said: "Over-twist, broken wrist !" "Ride near cliffs, embarrassingly expensive clear-up operation". (are you listening, @Merrittous MonoWheel?) Face plant, ouch! #@%&*! @$%&^^*#! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 "Hit a big bump, feel like a chump" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrittous MonoWheel Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Cerbera said: "Over-twist, broken wrist !" "Ride near cliffs, embarrassingly expensive clear-up operation". (are you listening, @Merrittous MonoWheel?) I hear you Cerbera!!! I am thinking of getting a glide suit as a backup:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Merrittous MonoWheel said: I am thinking of getting a glide suit as a backup:-) Well, hummm.... never mind then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrittous MonoWheel Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 55 minutes ago, Cerbera said: "Over-twist, broken wrist !" "Ride near cliffs, embarrassingly expensive clear-up operation". (are you listening, @Merrittous MonoWheel?) Oops. Double posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Oh oh oh let me get in on this! "Eat a piece of poo, jokes on you!" "Kiss a bonny lass, make out in the grass!" "Pet a sweaty dog, go drink some eggnog!" Okay, did I just take this thread totally into the wrong direction here or what? I am a little confused... could be the low blood sugar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Oh oh oh let me get in on this! "Eat a piece of poo, jokes on you!" "Kiss a bonny lass, make out in the grass!" "Pet a sweaty dog, go drink some eggnog!" Okay, did I just take this thread totally into the wrong direction here or what? I am a little confused... could be the low blood sugar... Christ alive man, eat something ! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Ok let's not make too light of the subject here.. It's not the end of the world maybe but I really hope this kind of stuff won't be repeated and they learnt from these mistakes by now, or we can look forward to more banning! This is something that should have never left any factory employing even the most basic quality control procedures that could be called sensible for this type of machine. These guys need to wake up. I'd place an order for an 84V ACM 1300Wh or an 84V Msuper 3 1600Wh today but I mostly need a wheel for relatively safe commuting.. I just want a nice ride arriving at my destination in one piece, not only this week, this month or this year, but every day in the long rung. I'm not looking to do extreme sports at 7 AM in the morning showing up at work a bloody mess (or not showing up at all because my EUC suddenly failed unpredictably at 40 km/h throwing me under a truck)... Accidents can always happen due to rider error with serious consequences of course, but that should preferably be the only cause of an accident, ever. I don't want to be over dramatic but these reports just make me sad and angry, especially at this price point. At the same time I very much appreciate that any problems are brought into light, so we can make better informed decisions for ourselves. And also inform the manufacturer what happened and that the community is not happy about this. That's what we're here for, sharing information and having fun, right? I'm not saying GW is all bad and I'm not saying I'll never buy another GW wheel! I'm just saying it seems to have limited use for me how it looks at the moment. It just doesn't strike me as a friendly dependable everyday urban environment commuter vehicle so to speak... They could and need to do better, I do realize other manufacturers may be no better (except maybe Inmotion as mentioned before has a clean record so far). But, only KS18, ACM, Msuper and the Monster so far allows riders to reach continous speeds significantly beyond 30 km/h. I think crossing that line by default calls for another level of responsibility, a level arguably not on display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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