Inmotion (with higher pedals) less stable?

[Paddylaz]

11 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

I didn't say anything about pedal size affecting the center of gravity.  I said have an option for a lower pedal to make it easier to learn on. 

Have you tried multiple different wheels with the varying pedal heights that are out there?

The effect of pedal height to the learning curve is fairly negligible. I would've thought if euc manufacturers ever did such a thing, which I doubt, it would be to cater for advanced riders who want very high pedals for super-sharp turns, rather than particularly low pedals for shaving 5% off the difficulty-level.

Much more relevant to newbies would be the angle of the pedals, tire width and most important of all, tire pressure.

[Bram]

39 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Yes, like @KingSong69 is saying, wobbling is a typical beginner problem, but can be compounded by the InMotion ride style.

Some general tips (couldn't really tell from the vid exactly how you were riding):

• Leg lock: I had an issue with this when first learning to ride. While you can ride with legs locked, the issue here is you should always be able to limber up and stay loose hips/waist down as well (my issue was that both my legs would tensing and freeze up). EUC riding is about balance; tense and locked legs don't allow you to freely adjust the weight balance relation of your torso to your legs+wheel.

Thanks I think it'll come with increased experience

39 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

• Foot-to-shin lean / wedge: This is a pretty important fundamental to EUC riding. While in the beginning, many of us squeeze the wheel to death by the ankles, with our legs parallel up against the wheel casing, the better way to ride IMHO is to situate your feet on the pedals slightly away from the EUC case, then lean the shin of whichever side your weight is favoring, up against the shin pad (kind of like a ladder leaning up against a wall). During the ride, as you maneuver and favor each leg, only one shin will be leaning on a pad at a time (almost like your shins are playing catch with the EUC inbetween them), or sometimes, as in the case of going straight, no shin-to-pad leaning at all. This helps in all aspects, esp. first mounting the wheel sans support and one-leg riding / tricks.

I don't have issues with my ankles, I don't hug the V8 with them (that would really be O leg time), but I will try out your tip of shifting the balance to one leg at a time. Drove another two hours today and already felt like it was getting better.

39 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

A key feature of the InMotion wheels that fosters easier learning (brought up to me by @logos122) is the higher situated shin cushions that make it easier to rest on.

As a beginner, the concept of the shins leaning on the pad is a difficult one. This is compounded by shorter 14" wheels or wheels with no padding, as either the shin pad doesn't hit your leg so high and comfortably as other bigger wheels, or the lack of padding is not comfortable. 

Comfortableness... Man my legs just below the knees are done. After 2 times an hour ride I really had enough :P. I'll let you guys know because I expect it will improve over time, but if I look at the comfy pictures of the v5f+ padding I start to drool.... Right up to the moment where I start riding and I have super nice acceleration and top speed. So far I'm really happy with this wheel and count on the pressure on the leggs to get lower over time.

[Mono]

2 hours ago, abinder3 said:

I didn't say anything about pedal size affecting the center of gravity.  I said have an option for a lower pedal to make it easier to learn on. 

It was not an answer to your post and I didn't notice anybody citing you saying that pedal size affects the COG. Obviously, pedal height affects the COG, but, not so obviously, only by a few percent and it's not likely to be relevant to affect learning.

[abinder3]

1 hour ago, Paddylaz said:

Have you tried multiple different wheels with the varying pedal heights that are out there?

The effect of pedal height to the learning curve is fairly negligible. I would've thought if euc manufacturers ever did such a thing, which I doubt, it would be to cater for advanced riders who want very high pedals for super-sharp turns, rather than particularly low pedals for shaving 5% off the difficulty-level.

Much more relevant to newbies would be the angle of the pedals, tire width and most important of all, tire pressure.

Very hard to try out different wheels when there isn't anywhere here in the Los Angeles area that you can try them. 

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, Bram said:

I don't have issues with my ankles, I don't hug the V8 with them (that would really be O leg time), but I will try out your tip of shifting the balance to one leg at a time. Drove another two hours today and already felt like it was getting better.

Nice~ I forgot, more people squeeze with their legs / shins as well. And as I said in reply originally, the InMotion wheels perform better when they are turning / initiating the turn, so me, personally, going straight is really favoring one side to start turning again.

1 hour ago, Bram said:

Comfortableness... Man my legs just below the knees are done. After 2 times an hour ride I really had enough :P. I'll let you guys know because I expect it will improve over time, but if I look at the comfy pictures of the v5f+ padding I start to drool.... Right up to the moment where I start riding and I have super nice acceleration and top speed. So far I'm really happy with this wheel and count on the pressure on the leggs to get lower over time.

Ah, yes, the pad-less V8. If you keep it stock sans pads, try to have the plastic bulges where pads should be contact your leg in the meat of your calf muscle instead of the shin bone if you can (obviously, we are all of different dimensions / heights). This has allowed me to ride my V8 without slapping on some cushions or pads.

And, of course, you can always resort to foam type aftermarket padding.

[abinder3]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

It was not an answer to your post and I didn't notice anybody citing you saying that pedal size affects the COG. Obviously, pedal height affects the COG, but, not so obviously, only by a few percent and it's not likely to be relevant to affect learning.

you were the one that originally stated (before you edited it a little while ago) that pedal size affects the COG.

[Mono]

10 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

you were the one that originally stated (before you edited it a little while ago) that pedal size affects the COG.

not really, it was a (contextually pretty obvious) typo, and it said that pedal size weight height does not lead to practically relevant effects on COG. Sorry for the confusion anyways.

[abinder3]

10 hours ago, Mono said:

I am not at all sure. I am sure though that not everything which has a lower center of gravity is easier to control. That's because there is a simple counter example: balancing an inverted pendulum is easier when the center of gravity is higher. Funnily enough, the example is pretty close to how unicycles work. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to suggest that for this reason wheels with higher pedals are invariably easier to control. IMHO the variation in pedal size height we talk about (about 20-30%) doesn't lead to a practically relevant variation of the COG (about 2-3%).

With that school of thought, then a person 8 feet tall should be able to ride a EUC and be more stable than someone that is 5 ft tall ?????????

I don't think so.

[abinder3]

9 minutes ago, Mono said:

not really, it was a (contextually pretty obvious) typo, and it said that pedal size weight height does not lead to practically relevant effects on COG. Sorry for the confusion anyways.

A typo ??????????

Seriously ???????????????

[Mono]

Just now, abinder3 said:

A typo ??????????

Seriously ???????????????

LOL, yes. I every so often use the word typo in a broader sense, meaning that what was (literally) written was not what was (obviously) meant. Like saying larger when one obviously meant smaller, or saying republicans when one obviously meant democrats  If you know a better word for it, I would be happy to know about.

[abinder3]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

LOL, yes. I every so often use the word typo in a broader sense, meaning that what was (literally) written was not what was (obviously) meant. Like saying larger when one obviously meant smaller, or saying republicans when one obviously meant democrats  If you know a better word for it, I would be happy to know about.

Wow.  Your sense of using words for other meanings is rather strange.  "saying republicans when one obviously meant democrats"?  Seriously ??????????

That example is like someone saying 'black' but they expected that you know they meant 'white'.

Some now people have to 'read your mind' to understand what you say ?????????

Seriously ???????????

[steve454]

15 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Wow.  Your sense of using words for other meanings is rather strange.  "saying republicans when one obviously meant democrats"?  Seriously ??????????

That example is like someone saying 'black' but they expected that you know they meant 'white'.

Some now people have to 'read your mind' to understand what you say ?????????

Seriously ???????????

He's alright, but it does mean that if he says it is two foot long, it is in fact 60 feet long.  Another Monty Python reference.

[Paddylaz]

16 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Wow.  Your sense of using words for other meanings is rather strange.  "saying republicans when one obviously meant democrats"?  Seriously ??????????

That example is like someone saying 'black' but they expected that you know they meant 'white'.

Some now people have to 'read your mind' to understand what you say ?????????

Seriously ???????????

Let's keep this forum friendly.

We don't need escalating confrontations.......and/or people looking for conversational 'jousts'.

We've had people like that on here before. It gets old. Quickly. 

[steve454]

22 minutes ago, Mono said:

I every so often use the word typo in a broader sense,

Typo means typographical error, I do that all the time

[Mono]

11 hours ago, abinder3 said:

Wow.  Your sense of using words for other meanings is rather strange.  "saying republicans when one obviously meant democrats"?  Seriously ??????????

Yes, seriously! It happens all the time that people say something while they obviously mean something quite different, often some sort of opposite. The well-known Freudian slip is an example of this.

Quote

That example is like someone saying 'black' but they expected that you know they meant 'white'.

Correct. Context is everything.

Quote

Some now people have to 'read your mind' to understand what you say ?????????

That is somehow how understanding works in the best case scenario. Trying to figure out what someone wanted to say, giving them every benefit of the doubt. In a somewhat different context it is also called the principle of charity.^1 I am not very good at it though. 

Quote

Seriously ???????????

LOL. 

As Alan Greenspan said, I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. 

^1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

[Citi Wheel]

17 hours ago, Bram said:

I got my inmotion V8 yesterday. Since it's my first EUC I can't compare it to others, I can however let you know that within an hour of practicing I was able to drive circles continuously and after that I was confident enough to drive around my neighborhood a bit. For sure I'm not a pro yet but so far I'm quite content with the learning curve on this machine (I've seen some other video's where it takes multiple hours to actually stay on the wheel for longer).

 

I do have some issues with wobbling though. Please check out the video below, maybe you can let me know if it's my stance or why this happens. I'm really hoping it's me and not the machine. I thought it might be the tire pressure but I can't check that yet because I don't have the pump for this valve (looking to buy one today) but the tires feels hard enough when I try to push it in.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

Even after years of riding I'm still not sure why units wobble. It must have something to do with resonance but I don't know what the cause it. Even now, it happens to me when I get low to the ground on an msuper2 going fast (15 mph+). Besides slowing down, I've noticed that it's mitigated but favoring one foot more.

17 hours ago, Bram said:

I got my inmotion V8 yesterday. Since it's my first EUC I can't compare it to others, I can however let you know that within an hour of practicing I was able to drive circles continuously and after that I was confident enough to drive around my neighborhood a bit. For sure I'm not a pro yet but so far I'm quite content with the learning curve on this machine (I've seen some other video's where it takes multiple hours to actually stay on the wheel for longer).

 

I do have some issues with wobbling though. Please check out the video below, maybe you can let me know if it's my stance or why this happens. I'm really hoping it's me and not the machine. I thought it might be the tire pressure but I can't check that yet because I don't have the pump for this valve (looking to buy one today) but the tires feels hard enough when I try to push it in.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

Even after years of riding I'm still not sure why units wobble. It must have something to do with resonance but I don't know what the cause it. Even now, it happens to me when I get low to the ground on an msuper2 going fast (15 mph+). Besides slowing down, I've noticed that it's mitigated but favoring one foot more.

[Mono]

12 minutes ago, logos122 said:

Even after years of riding I'm still not sure why units wobble. It must have something to do with resonance but I don't know what the cause it.

Together with the realization that there is quite some energy put into the system, the concept of resonance frequencies seems like a sufficient explanation. I think it is typically quite hard to predict what the resonance frequencies might be.

[Bram]

So far I think the wobble is mostly inexperience, I've noticed it getting less the more I ride. I did inflate the tire today and it didn't effect the wobbling. So far my total distance is around 30km, i'll let you guys know when I've traveled more.

[Mono]

45 minutes ago, Bram said:

So far I think the wobble is mostly inexperience, I've noticed it getting less the more I ride.

Right, more specifically it could be caused by superfluous muscle tension which goes away with experience.

[abinder3]

20 hours ago, Paddylaz said:

Let's keep this forum friendly.

We don't need escalating confrontations.......and/or people looking for conversational 'jousts'.

We've had people like that on here before. It gets old. Quickly. 

Really. 

You get on my 'case' about it but don't say anything to him ?????

[Paddylaz]

1 hour ago, abinder3 said:

Really. 

You get on my 'case' about it but don't say anything to him ?????

You're new, but seem to already have a taste for confrontation. And maybe.....a short temper too?

This is you on the app right?

"I've left feedback several times" - really? Have you? SEVERAL times seems a bit unhinged.

Are you THAT upset about not being able to save your address?

[abinder3]

5 hours ago, Paddylaz said:

You're new, but seem to already have a taste for confrontation. And maybe.....a short temper too?

This is you on the app right?

"I've left feedback several times" - really? Have you? SEVERAL times seems a bit unhinged.

Are you THAT upset about not being able to save your address?

I left feedback at least 10 times.  You don't consider that several times.  There's been at least 3 updates since I've left the first feedback. 

 

The funny thing is, you talk about me being confrontational.  However, you seem to be yourself as well.  Capitalizing words in your reply.  Capitalizing words can easily be considered yelling; definitely confrontational.  

[John Eucist]

Update: Check this great post by @nomad in another thread regarding this.