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EUC causes minor car crash


Smoother

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Edit. Title edited to no longer cause offence to sticklers who insist on 100% accuracy in absolutely everything, and to gain me some peace.  This is supposed to be fun, people!

 

So, shortly after winning the 5 European paso lottery ( see other thread) I'm wheeling home along Denia waterfront.  I pass a large roundabout, (rotary in some languages) and coming around it on the other side at about 40 kmh, is a VW Golf, a good 30m away and not on my side of the road at all.  It's a cool grey windy day so there is no one else in the immediate vacinity.  All of a sudden I hear this almighty smash of metal against concrete.  I look up to see said VW bouncing down off a 15cm kerb stone in the median that borders the crosswalk.  Man he hit hard.  Instant flat tire and lots of scraping noises as he limped down the street to find a quiet place to pull in.

i really believe that he was watching me ( or specifically some random dude on an EUC) and not watching the road.  As I said there was no one else around, and it's winter here, so no bikini clad models trapsing down to the beach to divert his attention.

i felt a bit sorry for him because it sounded expensive.   Also felt a bit guilty, but I know I'm not responsible for his inattentive driving; remember, i was on the sidewalk on the other side of a 4 lane road with a wide median between us. It's a good job a baby in a stroller wasn't there waiting to cross the road.  As I wheeled on, I contemplated stopping to lend a hand, but I was afraid he would blame me somehow and I didn't want any part of that. I also thought better of taking pictures ?.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Smoother said:

Así, poco después de ganar la lotería Paso 5 Europea (ver otro hilo) Estoy rodando a lo largo de Denia casa frente al mar. Paso una gran rotonda, (rotatorio en algunos idiomas) y que viene alrededor de ella en el otro lado a alrededor de 40 kmh, un campo de VW, un buen 30 metros y no en mi lado de la carretera en absoluto. Es un día de viento gris fresco por lo que no hay nadie más en las inmediaciones inmediata. De repente escucho esta rotura violenta omnipotente de metal contra el hormigón. Miro hacia arriba para ver dicho VW rebotando hacia abajo de una piedra de 15 cm de acera en la mediana que limita el paso de peatones. El hombre se golpeó duro. pinchazo instantáneo y un montón de ruidos de raspado mientras cojeaba por la calle para encontrar un lugar tranquilo para tirar adentro.

Realmente creo que él me estaba viendo (o específicamente un tío al azar en una CUE) y no viendo la carretera. Como ya he dicho que no había nadie más alrededor, y es invierno aquí, así que no hay modelos en bikini trapsing a la playa para desviar su atención.

Me sentí un poco mal por él porque sonaba caro. También sentí un poco culpable, pero yo sé que no soy responsable de su conducción desatento; recuerde, yo estaba en la acera del otro lado de una carretera de 4 carriles con una mediana de separación entre nosotros. Es un buen trabajo a un bebé en un cochecito no estaba allí esperando para cruzar la calle. Como Giré sobre, contemplé detenerse a echar una mano, pero tenía miedo de que se me culpa de alguna manera y yo no quiero ser parte de eso. También pensé mejor de la toma de fotografías ?.

 

 

My reflection is what can we do so that our wheel does not hit any person or falls under the wheels of some car? I go in my Msuper 35 klh and can do a lot of damage to someone, I think it should be mandatory to fasten it with a leash, a greeting from ibiza

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22 hours ago, Jose Otal said:

I think it should be mandatory to fasten it with a leash, a greeting from ibiza

Wow @Jose Otal! Be careful what you recommend. I always ride with a leash for the exact reasons you describe, but I think I'm in a minority of about 3 people.  I don't think that most of the members would like to have a leash become a requirement. Still, even riding with a leash, in certain falls I let go of the leash anyway, which then makes it useless.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 06/12/2016 at 0:49 PM, Jose Otal said:

I think it should be mandatory to fasten it with a leash

It would be better if the wheel would quickly slow down to standstill when no rider is present. This would be IHMO one of the few useful constructive regulations and is to my understanding implemented in the Uniwheel.

http://forum.electricunicycle.org/forum/50-uniwheel/

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37 minutes ago, steve454 said:

They all do that already.

What makes you believe EUCs slow down by themselves automatically? My personal experience is different and I have seen several videos witnessing that they don't, on the video thread of this forum or on youtube.

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2 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

Usually they careen out of control and bounce a few times.

Right, they do some random uncontrolled whatever, including the possibility to run away at speed and bump into whatever is in the way. That's why people have been asking for a leash or use one. 

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On 12/6/2016 at 6:49 AM, Jose Otal said:

what can we do so that our wheel does not hit any person or falls under the wheels of some car?

I remember once while my skills were still developing, I made a foolish decision I would not make now. I was riding on the sidewalk and some bushes were sticking out probably 50% of the width of the sidewalk. I thought I could ride on the edge of the sidewalk and push through the edges of the bushes. Instead, a branch from the bushes knocked me off my wheel, which then flew out into the street! I was SO THANKFUL that no cars were driving by at that moment. Otherwise, it could have been a disaster!

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2 hours ago, MaxLinux said:

I remember once while my skills were still developing, I made a foolish decision I would not make now. I was riding on the sidewalk and some bushes were sticking out probably 50% of the width of the sidewalk. I thought I could ride on the edge of the sidewalk and push through the edges of the bushes. Instead, a branch from the bushes knocked me off my wheel, which then flew out into the street! I was SO THANKFUL that no cars were driving by at that moment. Otherwise, it could have been a disaster!

Yes. We often protect our wheels with pads, and our bodies with pads, but who's protecting the bystanders our wheels run into, or who's cars they roll out infront of.  Let's face it, our little beauties could become someone else's widow maker in an instant. That's why I STILL ride with a leash, even though on some "involuntary dismounts" I have to let go.

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14 hours ago, Mono said:

What makes you believe EUCs slow down by themselves automatically?

Well, maybe not slow down automatically, but when they fall on their side they shut off is what I meant.  I do now remember a couple of videos where the rider jumped off on purpose and the wheel kept going in a big circle back to them and they jumped back on, and hirsute jumped off one and let it keep going straight.

Now that I think about it, you are right, they should have a weight sensor and if you fall off, even if the wheel is still upright it should shut off.

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1 hour ago, steve454 said:

if you fall off, even if the wheel is still upright it should shut off

It seems the wheel should do something which is a little more sophisticated than just shut off, because AFAICS it can't possibly know whether it is in the middle of a jump or a runaway. EDIT: I think in general, an EUC should never ever shut off as long as the wheel is spinning, also not at max speed (which I think all of them do). 

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1 hour ago, steve454 said:

Now that I think about it, you are right, they should have a weight sensor and if you fall off, even if the wheel is still upright it should shut off.

Please do not do it. What if you jump? what if your feet a little off the pedal for 0.2 seconds when going through a bump or going down a curb? What if the sensor, being in a exposed position close to dirt road, malfunctions? 

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That's the pitty with today's approaches to runaway prevention: While potentially life saving, they introduce a new risk on its own. A leash could tie up your legs when you need'em most, a cut-off switch may trigger while you're in perfect control of the wheel and send both of you flying for no good reason. I doubt, any existing weight or proximity sensor operates reliable enough in the challenging conditions of an EUC.

If you are desperate for a quick aftermarket rig, probably your safest bet for a cut off mechanism could be the safety switches used with jet skis and speed boats:

UNIVERSAL-ENGINE-SAFETY-CUT-OUT-KILL-SWITCH-W-FLOATING-LANYARD---BOAT--JET-SKI.pngUNIVERSAL-ENGINE-SAFETY-CUT-OUT-KILL-SWITCH-W-FLOATING-LANYARD---BOAT--JET-SKI-1.png

(found here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-ENGINE-SAFETY-CUT-OUT-KILL-SWITCH-W-FLOATING-LANYARD-BOAT-JET-SKI-/272182221072)

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13 minutes ago, Tilmann said:

I doubt, any existing weight or proximity sensor operates reliable enough in the challenging conditions of an EUC.

If the sensor triggers a controlled speed slow down to zero, as it should, reliability is not a major issue. Yet, I don't see why there couldn't be a highly reliable sensor, in particular as false negatives are not that big a deal at all. Could you explain why this is so? 

13 minutes ago, Tilmann said:

If you are desperate for a quick aftermarket rig, probably your safest bet for a cut off mechanism could be the safety switches used with jet skis and speed boats:

Isn't this intrinsically unsafe? What prevents the switch being triggering from a wrong arm or leg movement or a stupid "let's try what happens when I pull there" idea executed or the leash being caught by a flying by branch or something?

I feel that any off switch placed on an EUC should only work if the wheel is not spinning. 

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27 minutes ago, Mono said:

If the sensor triggers a controlled speed slow down to zero, as it should, reliability is not a major issue. Yet, I don't see why there couldn't be a highly reliable sensor, in particular as false negatives are not that a big deal. Could you explain why this is so? 

For all I know, any surprising reduction of motor rpm without a deliberate lean back by the rider will almost certainly cause a fall. So, I would expect each and every false negative to cause serious harm. Any weight sensor would need a considerable delay before cutting power as you may loose contact with the pedals when jumping off curbs and I just can't think of any way to mount it without constant bombardment with dirt and mud (at least as an aftermarket mod, but then I'm not an engineer).

Proximity sensors? I just don't know of any that work 100% all the time. Every smart phone has one to disable touch input when you are holding it to your ear. By personal experience, those work most of the time, but fail more often than I would accept for a safety feature. All reliable proximity sensors for industry applications I know of, only react to magnetic metal.

27 minutes ago, Mono said:

Isn't this intrinsically unsafe? What prevents the switch being triggering from a wrong arm or leg movement or the leash being caught by a flying by branch or something?

Good point, thanks! I didn't think of the risk from a branch, high grass or even snow (seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rx-c9IRl6A?) compromising it. Now I am curious. I think, I will order one, but wire it to the beeper instead of a cut off to try it out. That way I hear false triggers without the pain B).

 

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1 hour ago, Tilmann said:

For all I know, any surprising reduction of motor rpm without a deliberate lean back by the rider will almost certainly cause a fall.

I didn't mean to reduce motor rpm as primary control action. I wrote controlled slow down and meant that the speed reduces while the wheel remains forward-backward balanced (assuming there is no further input from the possibly unmounted driver). This comes down to a (slightly?) more sophisticated implementation of tilt-back, AFAICS maybe not trivial but also not that very difficult to do (the Ninebot Mini can do it).

1 hour ago, Tilmann said:

Any weight sensor would need a considerable delay before cutting power

I don't (never) want the EUC to cut power while the wheel is spinning. In this case, I even do not, never, want the EUC to cut power due to the sensor input, even if the wheel is not spinning anymore.

1 hour ago, Tilmann said:

Proximity sensors? I just don't know of any that work 100% all the time.

Do you know of any technical device that works 100% all the time? That is never what we could possibly ask for. What we ask for is a small number of false signals, here, say, on average 1 false positive signal per 100000 operating hours. As a false positive doesn't even do any harm, as it just leads the wheel to slow down if the driver does not give any further input, even a much greater number seems perfectly acceptable. 

1 hour ago, Tilmann said:

All reliable proximity sensors for industry applications I know of, only react to magnetic metal.

IIRC Uniwheel is neither using weight sensors nor (obviously) metal sensors, so maybe you found the reason why they are still not out there yet, or not :)

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Sounds a little bit strange to me discussing about safety when people just pass without helping each other. A leach or automatic slow down won't help. If someone has an accident everyone is required to help. Just my two cents... 

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