Donafello Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 So as you prob know I just received my 1640wh Msuper. I am still on my first full charge and down to about 50%. I plan on doing a 15 mile ride and want to charge it fully but I know I can also make it where I'm going with the battery I have left. Ive been told that it is good to drain the battery completely every once in a while and then charge it to full. Is this true? Or can I charge it from 50% to 100% and not have any problems in the long term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Donafello said: So as you prob know I just received my 1640wh Msuper. I am still on my first full charge and down to about 50%. I plan on doing a 15 mile ride and want to charge it fully but I know I can also make it where I'm going with the battery I have left. Ive been told that it is good to drain the battery completely every once in a while and then charge it to full. Is this true? Or can I charge it from 50% to 100% and not have any problems in the long term? If possible , these kind of battery should never, ever be drained below 20% because it certainly decreases the life of them significantly ultimately, the battery should be Somewhere between 40 and 80%..... , But between 20 and 80% would be fine and if you're going to charge 100% that should be done right before you go for a ride and not leaving the battery stored in 100% for a period of time (Understanding, of course, that if the batteries are very hot after that full charge you let them cool down for half an hour or so before going on that ride or if you are going to be riding at a high rate of speed or riding in an area where the temperature is very hot) fortunately, with this battery capacity you would rarely need 100% charge before going away on a ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I have read that you should take a new battery down to to 20% the first 5 times you charge it. Something about 'battery conditioning'. Don't know if that's true or not, but I'm doing it with mine just in case... CBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 So there is no benefit to letting battery drain completely every once in a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Just now, Cerbera said: I have read that you should take a new battery down to to 20% the first 5 times you charge it. Something about 'battery conditioning'. Don't know if that's true or not, but I'm doing it with mine just in case... CBR People talk about that notion in cell phones mostly because it helps the phone understand what level charge there is in the battery there are many ways to condition batteries..... But cycling between 20% and 80% is a good general rule Just now, Donafello said: So there is no benefit to letting battery drain completely every once in a while Not only is there no benefit in doing that, but there is a great deal of detriment in doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Cerbera said: I have read that you should take a new battery down to to 20% the first 5 times you charge it. Something about 'battery conditioning'. Don't know if that's true or not, but I'm doing it with mine just in case... CBR Thats exactly why i was asking because I heard that should be done. I heard only the first time but I'm not sure. On all my iphones I always charged to 100% and then run it down to 0%. and I would try and do this every month or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Greg Spalding said: People talk about that notion in cell phones mostly because it helps the phone understand what level charge there is in the battery there are many ways to condition batteries..... But cycling between 20% and 80% is a good general rule Not only is there no benefit in doing that, but there is a great deal of detriment in doing that Ok great. So It would be good for me to charge back to 100% before my ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Donafello said: So there is no benefit to letting battery drain completely every once in a while The 'never below 20%' rule definitely applies to Lipo battery packs, but I'm considerably less sure about Li-ion... it-s true nobody bothers conditioning smaller li-ion devices like phones do they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 It's crazy how everyone has a different take on this topic. I tend to think what Greg says is true but if anyone has a different take on this please let us know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 15 minutes ago, Donafello said: Thats exactly why i was asking because I heard that should be done. I heard only the first time but I'm not sure. On all my iphones I always charged to 100% and then run it down to 0%. and I would try and do this every month or two One of the reasons I've always owned android phones, even though I have many MacBooks is because I like to have batteries that can be replaced because you can buy a battery for cell phone for $20 that will last six months to matter how many times you abuse it with charging... You don't want to even think about how much it would cost you to replace the batteries in that 1640 ... Almost half the price of the wheel perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 18 minutes ago, Donafello said: It's crazy how everyone has a different take on this topic. I tend to think what Greg says is true but if anyone has a different take on this please let us know Two citings from batteryuniversity.com: "Simple Guidelines to Prolong Lithium-ion Batteries Do not discharge Li-ion too low; charge more often. A random or partial charge is fine. Li-ion does not need to be fully full charged as with lead acid. Heat the battery to room temperature before charging. Do not charge below freezing. Limit the time the battery resides at 4.2V/cell (full charge), especially when warm. Moderate the charge current to between 0.5C and 0.8C for cobalt-based lithium-ion. Avoid ultra-fast charging and harsh loading. When possible, lower the charge voltage limit to prolong battery life. Keep the battery cool. Move it away from heat-generating environments. Avoid hot cars and windowsills that are exposed to the sun. Add some charge before a long storage. The charge level is not as critical as cool storage." " There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life. The exception may be a periodic calibration of the fuel gauge on a smart battery or intelligent device " From the discussions around here till now it seems they have quite the competence in this area. So if someone wants to have some other take .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 23 minutes ago, Cerbera said: The 'never below 20%' rule definitely applies to Lipo battery packs, but I'm considerably less sure about Li-ion... it-s true nobody bothers conditioning smaller li-ion devices like phones do they ? I appreciate the information above as it helps me as well... These battery packs are very expensive we have to take care from the best way we can so we can have money to buy even more wheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Otal Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I have the same doubt, but my Msuperes 820v¿ expect the battery to be 20% to charge it? The question is that after doing 25km, the mobile application tells me that I have to have 50% battery and do not charge for battery care, this Sunday I left the road thinking that I could do 15km with 48% battery, but At approximately 3 km the battery was at 30% and at 5 0 6 km the application of the phones jumped like crazy from 30% to 10% and shortly thereafter sounded the 3 alarm at 30 klh and soon after at slower speeds, the Noise of the alarm bothered me and people looking at the noise, in the end it could be a good day, could not be and I returned home, its battery is 1640v, I think it is not good to think that with 50% battery on A Msuper 820v can make a great exit, pardon for the automatic translation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Jose Otal said: I have the same doubt, but my Msuperes 820v¿ expect the battery to be 20% to charge it? The question is that after doing 25km, the mobile application tells me that I have to have 50% battery and do not charge for battery care, this Sunday I left the road thinking that I could do 15km with 48% battery, but At approximately 3 km the battery was at 30% and at 5 0 6 km the application of the phones jumped like crazy from 30% to 10% and shortly thereafter sounded the 3 alarm at 30 klh and soon after at slower speeds, the Noise of the alarm bothered me and people looking at the noise, in the end it could be a good day, could not be and I returned home, its battery is 1640v, I think it is not good to think that with 50% battery on A Msuper 820v can make a great exit, pardon for the automatic translation The battery gauge in the Gotway app is not so good, at least in the app I used for Msuper v3.. Maybe I used the wrong app? It did not go down linearly like you'd expect from a percentage indicator, like on a phone, laptop etc.. Seems it just used the raw voltage measurement or something but it stayed at 100% a long time, then 90%, then 80% (also only 10% skips) at this point I think half the capacity was consumed... So 80% on the meter in the app means more like 50% capacity/range left.. The lower you go the worse it gets? At 60% battery maybe you only have 25% capacity/range to go? With my Inmotion wheel the battery indicator is linear as you'd expect, both on the wheel and in the app, if it shows 40% battery level that means you have 40% capacity / range left to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 I just bought a new drill with a lithium battery and the manual said that lithium batteries give full power until they are discharged to the point where they need to be charged again. That sounds like the power just suddenly drops off, and the app probably is going to be inaccurate and it is not a linear loss of power. I've ridden down to 20% on the app one time and the wheel slowed down a lot, usually I recharge at 45-50%. It's the voltage shown on the app that concerns me most, at full charge the app shows about 61.7 volts and goes down to the middle 50's at about 50% charge. It just seems the lower voltage would give less power to the motor, right? I mean, once the voltage gets down to a certain level, you might suddenly lose power while riding and try a hill or bump and the wheel is less able to handle it. I don't know, just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 39 minutes ago, steve454 said: It just seems the lower voltage would give less power to the motor, right? I mean, once the voltage gets down to a certain level, you might suddenly lose power while riding and try a hill or bump and the wheel is less able to handle it. I don't know, just guessing. Interesting - my experience is slightly different. For me, my MS3 maintains its voltage and power rather well right down to 20%. On a relatively new battery (< a month)I'm still in the low 60's at 20%, though the Gotway's low speed alarms were helpfully kicking in towards the end of my long, challenging ride, to warn me that situation was getting worse I don't think you need to worry about lack of motor power as charge lessens. That machine has so much excess it shouldn't be a problem. When I think that my Airwheel, which also bravely tackled hills right down to its last light, had a motor TEN TIMES less powerful than the MSuper. That's why I'm not worried at all, right down to 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 26 minutes ago, Cerbera said: I'm not worried at all, right down to 20%. @Cerbera I agree, it seems that 20% is the sudden drop of power where most of the better wheels lose performance. I guess riding at a steady speed, like commuting to work, it would not be a problem at all, you just get tiltback and slow down, and then recharge. I guess that is the BMS protecting the batteries and the rider. It's probably only a problem when riding fast and pushing the wheel, which I don't do much unless the battery is fully charged and i'm trying to take it down to about 90%, so the battery is not fully charged for long. Unless of course I am going on a longer ride right away, then I will ride about an hour and the battery will show about 50% Wow, just noticed you have 2000 hours on your Airwheel, is the battery still taking a good charge? I have less than 100 hours on the ninebot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 30 minutes ago, steve454 said: Wow, just noticed you have 2000 hours on your Airwheel, is the battery still taking a good charge? I have less than 100 hours on the ninebot. Nope, it's down to about 1 mile range now It did very well to last as long as it did when I made it work nearly every day for 3 years. I'm trying to find a replacement pack for it, but not having much luck. But since I got the MS3, I have to confess I haven't given my poor little X5 a second thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.