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Why the original Segway was so expensive


Smoother

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Yes @noisycarlos. Your observations about being caught and dragged, very good.  Also, too easy to ride without proper understanding of the risks or correct procedures.  Softer too, yes, from the videos I can see that.  But, when operated properly, and responsibility, after training and some miles of experience, they were/ are great.  It just seems that getting on one tends to bring out the idiot in people, " hey ma, look what I can do!!", mentality,  if that video is anything to go by.  I loved my Segways ( I model and P model). But looking at that video it strikes me they weren't ready for the great unwashed.

Edited by Smoother
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  • 1 month later...
3 hours ago, Frankman said:

I think the Segway was build like a tank because it had to resist and survive to its many catastrophic and embarrassing falls.

To be fair, the Segway came with a comprehensive user manual, and several professionally made tutorial  videos.  And I bet they are all on YouTube still.  

When operated as recommend by the manufacturer it would never have found itself in these " many catastrophic and embarrassing falls" as you put it. Even the death of the English guy who bought Seg about 6 years ago wouldn't have happened if he followed the instructions ( I'm pretty sure cliff top riding was on the DONT DO THIS list)

 If you watch the compilation of fails, many of the riders are riding in a group.  Mostly, groups of Segway riders were renters, who, for the most part had a minimal training talk by an hourly employee before being let loose.  You can't convey all the warnings in the official training, in a ten minute chat on the side of the road.

 Other videos were of people goofing around. There was no " how to goof around video" from Segway.  Imagine if Suzuki put out a "how to do a stoppie " video. Or if Nissan put out a " how to drift around a public roundabout " video! Unthinkable, but I've done it ( years ago when I was young and stupid?) so if I pranged my Nissan and someone videoed it, is this a mistake of the Nissan car design?  

George bush was famously filmed falling off a Segway.  Almost no one bothered to report that; because he had zero training, and the person who handed it to him was also an idiot, it wasn't even switched on when he stepped on.  Embarrassing, yes?  Segways fault, no. But Segway got a bad rap because hundreds of millions of people around the world  who knew nothing about the correct way to get on a Segway, and couldn't be bothered to do any research,  believed 100% what the 5 second news clip showed. And they still hold those views today apparently. ?

 When operated safely, within the the limits set out by Segway it was a damn good machine, as are most EUCs, and snow blowers, and motorcycles and firearms and fireworks, and electricity,and bicycles, etc, and that's why no one ever gets hurt by these things either.,?

Edited by Smoother
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I.M.H.O. one of the main problems of the Segway and of all two wheels self balancing vehicles is the uncontrollable yaw that occurs as soon as one of the two wheels faces also a small obstacle. Infact many accidents are due to this problem. No other vehicle (bikes, scooters, EUCs etc.) has this issue.

 

Edited by Frankman
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2 minutes ago, Frankman said:

I.M.H.O. one of the main problems of the Segway and of all two wheels self balancing vehicles is the uncontrollable jaw that occurs as soon as one of the two wheels faces also a small obstacle. Infact many accidents are due to this problem. No other vehicle (bikes, scooters, EUCs etc.) has this issue.

 

Yes, your quite right.  Or mud, or ice, or oil, or a deep hole or the side of a kerb, or wall, or the back of another Segway, etc.  But they did warn against all that in the owner's manual and video. But your right, warning or not, it's a design limitation.  Imagine being on a hoverboard when one wheel suddenly stops for any of the above reasons, you don't even have a handle bar to hold onto ( I'm referring to the original ridged handle bar, not the 2nd gen floppy one) .  Ouch! Can you say Mike Tyson?

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I own a regular two wheel Segway, and the OP is right. The thing is built like a tank. I took mine apart and was very impressed with the way it is built. The only thing I don't like about it, is that every part on it is super expensive. The batteries cost an arm and a leg, and most cheap Segway's you see for sale need batteries. I bought mine for $300, but it didn't work when I bought it. It didn't charge the batteries. It ended up needing the charger that the cord plugs into. That part cost me $700 for a used one, and it still needs new batteries. The batteries only last about 3 miles, so at least it is still usable. I'll probably try to sell it one of these days for what I have in it ($1000), or I will just take it apart and sell it for parts. I already know the charger is worth $700, and the handle bars go for around that much too. 

I have the original Segway with the control on the left hand grip. I think those models are safer than the newer ones with the leaning column. If you lose your balance on a newer one, you tend to pull on the bars which makes you lose control even faster. That doesn't happen with the older ones that have the control on the grips. I do think the newer ones are easier to master than the older ones. The off road ones are more dangerous because the tires stick out, and as you see in the fail videos, if your tires hit something, and you are not expecting it, you are going down because you pull on the handle bars to catch your balance, which makes the Segway go in a circle, and down you go. 

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@Panotaker sorry to hear you got ripped off on your used Segway purchase.. I used to have two; a P model and an "I"model which is the one you see mostly, and most likely the model you have.  I agree, the rigid column models were better for hanging on when you encountered a problem.  

Why don't you look into rebuilding your battery packs.  I'm not sure of the battery type ( probably ni cad) but we have one or more custom battery pack builders on the forum.  Maybe they could repopulate your shells with fresh batteries for a fraction of the asking price.  Of course 9/10ths is also a fraction, but you don't know until you ask.  ?

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I didn't get ripped off. I bought it knowing that it didn't work. I just took a chance. I figured it was worth more than $300 just in parts. I thought the charger was bad, so I took a chance thinking I could fix it. Only problem is the chargers are not rebuildable. When the factory builds the chargers, they fill it up with epoxy, so there is no way to take it apart. It's one giant epoxy blob. They probably did that so that nothing breaks loose. Like I said, the Segway does work, and it's good for around 3 miles, which is good for riding it around the whole sub division. When I first got it about 3 years ago, I checked on replacing the batteries. Rebuilt nicads where $750, and the newer batteries where $1800. There was a guy in California that sold the individual batteries so you could rebuild your own pack, but they where not cheap either. The good thing is that there is still a demand for the grip control Segway's. They are still popular with disabled people, and they are still popular for playing Segway Polo or football. In my opinion, they are not worth replacing the batteries, since you can buy a brand new Segway Mini cheaper. But if someone wants to give me a ballpark on rebuilding the batteries let me know. I believe there is more to it than just replacing the batteries. There are current sensors, and heat sensors in the batteries that go bad too. 

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I had a quick search, and it seems Segway battery rebuilding is an established business, so I assume that's the best way to go, if you like the price. But it looks like you've already explored that avenue. Still, as you say you've got 3 miles to play with, which is something.

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On 12/19/2016 at 9:06 AM, Panotaker said:

When I first got it about 3 years ago, I checked on replacing the batteries.

I wonder how many years the batteries actually have, that you still get three miles with them is amazing.

 

On 12/19/2016 at 11:18 AM, Smoother said:

Still, as you say you've got 3 miles to ply with, which is something.

I agree, 3 miles is nothing to sneeze at.

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7 hours ago, Planetpapi said:

I bought mine brand new 4 years back and now only had 350 miles on it. Wondering how much I get if I sell?

How many miles do you still get with a full charge?  Not looking to buy, just curious about the Segway batteries, they must be very high quality.

I bet you could get a good price with only 350 miles on it.

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Around here (Austin Texas) a used working Segway with good batteries are worth around $3000 to $4000. Finding someone that wants to buy it is a different story. One that needs batteries are worth around $1000, since the batteries are so expensive. A segway has to be plugged in and trickle charging 24/7, or you will kill the batteries.

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  • 2 years later...

I had a Segway i2 model from around 2007 to around 2018, but sold it because the batteries ($1K each) died. I loved it so much but times changed and it didn't.

Over the years, e-rideables got 'smarter' and smaller. I wish the PT model evolved to maintain quality but with some smart features and smaller. 

It remains the safest e-rideable I have owned to date. My EUC feels similar but I am too new to feel the same level of control and comfort as I did on my Segway. 

After Ninebot acquired them, it's shameful the crap they put the Segway brand name on. Finally, it's interesting to see people enjoying the fruit of Dean Kamen's invention in various other forms. 

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On 12/23/2016 at 6:12 PM, Panotaker said:

Around here (Austin Texas) a used working Segway with good batteries are worth around $3000 to $4000. Finding someone that wants to buy it is a different story. One that needs batteries are worth around $1000, since the batteries are so expensive. A segway has to be plugged in and trickle charging 24/7, or you will kill the batteries.

Not knowing that costs me. And the $2,000 price tag for an aging machine drove me to sell it. 

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  • 5 months later...

I can assure everyone in this forum that the Segway PT has *full redundant sub-systems* throughout. Any suggestions otherwise is simply wrong. I've been selling and repairing these incredibly well designed and engineering machines for 17 years, and fully redundant they most certainly are.

Anyone who thinks full redundancy isn't important....simply hasn't been riding for long enough to realise how important it is. It is not a a matter of "if" a component fails, it is a matter of "when" simply because everything fails eventually....and it isn't much fun when this happens without warning at 20 km/h.

Yes, in my opinion the public should be valuing the concept of full redundancy more highly, as they zoom around on low-cost, non-redundant machines. But at this point in time the market has spoken, and pmany eople seem happy to pay less and get a lot less safety. Which is pretty strange, really - but then humans are pretty terrible at assessing relative risk. And of course this lack of redundant safety doesn't matter at all....not one little bit most of the time.....in fact, right up until the very instant that it absolutely does (and saves you from injury or worse).

It won't always be this way. More redundancy will creep in over the years to come. Who, for example, would buy a new car today without airbags, or any other the other safety features we now consider both essential and standard? In my opinion, the day will come with redundancy is a regulated requirement in most countries for EUCs and Segway PT-style devices (except those classed as toys). We're just not there yet. We were, once, and now we are not. 

Yet a nicely maintained, pre-owned Segway PT with good battery packs is as useful and capable and safe and as fun to ride as the day it was manufactured, and there are bargains to be found. Brand new is even better, of course. The thing about full-sized Segway PTs is they provide for a very safe and comfortable journey. This is due to their high power (more power = more safety) and large diameter wheels to comfortably cross terrain with plenty of grip. Those pesky laws of physics remain, of course, along with the factor of human stupidity - as demonstrated in the video a few posts back.

Which is not to say mini-versions are not fun - they sure are! When riding them myself, I can never decide if I prefer the "sports car feel" of the S-Pro (mini-Pro) over the "comfort and easy of riding sedan" of the slightly larger S-Plus (miniPlus). Both devices re super-convenient due to small size, footprint and weight....it is just that they are not as safe or forgiving as a full-sized PT. But depending on your journey and route and environmental conditions they might be just fine for your trip.

That the original engineers got so many things right first time around 20 years amazes me, and they pretty much perfected the idea just a couple of years later with the Gen 2 machines (slightly evolved today into the SE machines).

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  • 2 years later...

Never rode the original segway, but always wanted one, (now I do with segway mini and mini plus), obviously they it was expensive from the start because they were the first to make the balance wheel, and as others had stated the electronics at the time was new and never had such application as such before...it took several more years for the electronic components become more reliable, smaller, and cheaper...segway never got away from doubling all the electronics on top of it all...

And yikes...they used nickel hydrate batteries... so did my Honda Insight...so sad...

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