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1 minute ago, zlymex said:

If you look at here: 

The first three lines are the three speed alarms(1st, 2nd and 3rd).

The 1 beep/sec is used for fall down and also for extreme low battery.

No I believe you, I'm just wondering why not 1beep/s = Alarm 1, 2beep/s = Alarm 2

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30 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@Greg Spalding Well, you don't have to babysit, you could use something like this Belkin Outlet timer that I use which has 30 min / 3 hour / and 6 hour shutoff options.

 

Ah yes, now that I'm re-thinking, you are right about the diameter, which is not usually the case for most EUCs (sorry!).

And you are saying the 1st alarm = 2 beeps/sec? Very weird.... and counter-intuitive, as my KingSong 18 is 1beep/sec = 1st alarm, 2beeps/sec = 2nd alarm, etc. Wonder why Gotway does it this way..... 

???

My KS14 and KS 18 are also 1st alarm = 2 beeps, 2nd Alarm = 3 beeps...

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39 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

???

My KS14 and KS 18 are also 1st alarm = 2 beeps, 2nd Alarm = 3 beeps...

Ha!, maybe I'm mistaken about this as well, as my KS18 has been down for awhile due to stripped screws preventing me from changing the tire.

But they go incrementally up by one at least, right? not jumping from 3beeps/sec to 5beeps/sec? or is it an exact copy of the Gotway method?

 

p.s. I see you've already had this argument before, but I could've sworn my KS18 behaves the way these guys are saying, 1=1, etc.

 

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9 hours ago, Roll Model said:

If 590 is overall length then the RIM size would be smaller than that, no?

That‘s right.

The car tire/wheel is different. For instance, "255/55 R18", this 18 is RIM size(diameter, in inch).

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I made some comments on the Monster in the past. Based on existing information and paper/ image review only I like to share my personal thoughts shared and start with *my* requirements:

  • I like to have an EUC with a range bigger than 50-60 km (with me on top)
  • It should be in a weight that i'm able to carry it stairs up and down
  • as we've a station wagon and a convertible all of our four EUCs have to been put in the compartment with back pack 
  • I conduct sometimes on a tour which starts in the late morning and we do a distance of 30-40 km, come back to recharge and take a barbecue and after 4-5 hours we conduct a after lunch tour with the same range as in the morning.
  • i like to take a ride on EuroVelo6 for some days next year. Either I need a break over lunch to recharge and in the evening again for the next morning or if it stays the day it need to be fully charged in the morning.
  • As I need to carry the charger with me on tours it needs to been small to get it with the other stuff in the back pack
  • Same charger for all wheels to only need to carry 1 charger for 2 wheels and able to charge both wheels one after the other over night.
  • I travel sometimes by train so I should be able to store it in luggage compartments

As I upgraded my MSuper 680 Wh to 887 Wh it takes around 6h to charge it. I like to come down to 3h charging time max. with my next EUC. That charging times are boring and limiting.

I think for my requirements I should stay in the 18" class and the battery capacity should be around 1200-1300 Wh and a charger port to support a multi charger connected to each of the 3 or 4 battery packs to get down the over all charging time. Maybe upcoming battery technology will fix weight and volumetric limitations of the today used batteries.

So for me I've no reason to follow the Monster path. And if I would do so as a second wheel for tours without family which is not worth the money.

I'm a mainstream user and the Monster addresses maybe more the freaks. But it's also a nice tourer. Anyway manufacturer should more listen to demand and not just deliver anything where specs don't meet demand. Would be interesting to know which way products are "designed" and how markets can place requirements?

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Even if it's faster, I think I'll stick with the 18" wheel.  I worry about traction, and weight when jumping.

Plus, I see issues with the 18" wheel coming up every week.  I'd prefer Gotway work on fixing those issues than innovate too much.

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That is one serious wheel!  :blink:  I'd like to see @EUC Extreme try one on for size and zoom over some BMX hills to see what it's like.  Go big or go home right?  BMX bike sizes are usually 20", but some do make 24" wheel versions.  I wonder with the larger wheel whether it would handle offroading much better.  Mountain bike tires are 26" and up in size so this 22" version should hopefully open up some serious possibilities as long as the motor is strong enough and the batteries well matched for it.  It would be nice to see some sort of reliable suspension system to go along with these wheels.  I know we've talked about them forever, and besides some one-off spring systems and diagrams, I really haven't seen a good working simple system released yet.

I'd like to see someone on a EUC tackle a forest course like this one some day:

There was this one guy who was a bit crazy...

 

 

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On 11/3/2016 at 11:41 AM, KingSong69 said:

you could use something like this Belkin Outlet timer that I use which has 30 min / 3 hour / and 6 hour shutoff options.

I use the one linked below, and I have been very happy with it. See link below photo.

 

OutletTimer.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FSQTSB8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

That is one serious wheel!  :blink:  I'd like to see @EUC Extreme try one on for size and zoom over some BMX hills to see what it's like.  Go big or go home right?  BMX bike sizes are usually 20", but some do make 24" wheel versions.  I wonder with the larger wheel whether it would handle offroading much better.  Mountain bike tires are 26" and up in size so this 22" version should hopefully open up some serious possibilities as long as the motor is strong enough and the batteries well matched for it.  It would be nice to see some sort of reliable suspension system to go along with these wheels.  I know we've talked about them forever, and besides some one-off spring systems and diagrams, I really haven't seen a good working simple system released yet.

I'd like to see someone on a EUC tackle a forest course like this one some day:

There was this one guy who was a bit crazy...

 

 

I'm sorry, but I smiled a little, when at the beginning of the video the guy was forced to carry his EUC. Since his view, the terrain was too difficult.

I would have easily pushed over it. And quickly .. :)

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In my short list above I tried to take into account not only power but at least wheel diameter as well.. There's more like electronic limits, pedal placement etc. but it's just a guideline so lets keep it somewhat simple.. I'm about 70 kg and your graph make it look like I can safely go 45 km/h on a 2500 W wheel.. If I hit some bumps with a 14" wheel at that speed (without suspension I might add) it doesn't matter if I have 10 000 W if I can't stay on the wheel... :)

A bigger wheel requires more power to not loose torque, at least for acceleration/deceleration and incline/decline.. Braking distance is an important part of safety! But a bigger wheel uses less torque to go over the same size bump (compared to a smaller wheel) so maybe for bumps it cancels out..? But still a smaller wheel needs less power to brake.

Probably the manufacturers are giving the rated power of the motor part itself.. Not how much power is actually transfered to the ground. In the case of 18" and now 22" it seems the design is to go with a relatively small motor plus a big wheel with spokes.. Maybe to keep weight and price lower? For example the ACM and Msuper v3 is known to have the same 1500 W motor, but the smaller diameter of the ACM wheel turns out stronger torque...

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Larger wheels have many advantages over smaller wheels when talking "cruising wheel"

I seriously doubt <90kg will ride at speeds where the lower torque becomes an issue. I'm 80kg and can ride my 26" 1200W @40kph all day (if terrain permits) without fear of a high speed cut-out. When I exceed 50kph and have already used some battery, I'm verging on having a fall. (GPS, not App speed. BTW)

When cruising, larger wheels need less power to keep rolling, so have better range and retain near full battery reserve further into a ride. Also have lower rolling resistance and much better ride over obstacles ability, which also improves average speed. (less slowing down and re-accelerating) 

I'm not here to promote any particular brand of wheel, but applaud Gotway for a move in the right direction in the evolution of the EUC. Now if they make the casing lighter and so it pivots at knee level instead of at shin level, they will be much better for the majority of riders who are looking for a comfortable, safe and versatile wheel.

I'd buy a GW 22" if I did not already ride a 26"

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12 hours ago, volavoile said:

From 38 to 48.... with the 2500W

From 29 to 39 with the 1600W

Is it still reasonnable?

Up to you!

safety speed EUC monster.png

As I have already said on the other post, this chart is limited, as it only considered power as the only the ability of the EUC, no wheel size, no EUC type(such as high speed type or high torque type).

And, what is the power?

Is that the rated power? Rated power is the max. continues power above which the motor will be over heated, it is not the temporarily power that the EUC can deliver while in normal riding situation.

Is that the peak power? Well, we don't know the peak power, as most EUC manufacturers don't specify it.

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9 hours ago, zlymex said:

As I have already said on the other post, this chart is limited, as it only considered power as the only the ability of the EUC, no wheel size, no EUC type(such as high speed type or high torque type).

And, what is the power?

Is that the rated power? Rated power is the max. continues power above which the motor will be over heated, it is not the temporarily power that the EUC can deliver while in normal riding situation.

Is that the peak power? Well, we don't know the peak power, as most EUC manufacturers don't specify it.

The motor is a dumb mechanical part so I don't think it really can have an exact peak power and the same goes for chemical battery packs. However the control board is the smart part it should ultimately be the bottleneck and protect the motor windings and battery cells from overheating and overdischarging. So a peak power can be specified (usually 3x rated sustained power) but how any power is actually used is up to Gotway. Half damaged motors and battery cells can still keep running so it's probably best after all (for reliability of the EUC itself) if the control board prevents the other parts from degrading.

I agree motor type is important too but high torque is only another name for low speed motor, because if you know both the max speed and the nominal power, then you know how much power is compressed into the speed range as well. But can you be sure of the max speed, because the control board will cut off the current when it reaches a certain level. With the ACM having 1500W rating and then 3000W+ as the peak spec it looks a little suspicious.. With a better control board that same motor could maybe have a 4500W peak spec and way higher max speed? The 84V Msuper already has a higher speed with again the same motor I think, so it could even be a PWM issue.. In other words the motor could be much faster than the control board can spin it, who knows?

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9 minutes ago, nomad said:

The motor is a dumb mechanical part so I don't think it really can have an exact peak power and the same goes for chemical battery packs. However the control board is the smart part it should ultimately be the bottleneck and protect the motor windings and battery cells from overheating and overdischarging. So a peak power can be specified (usually 3x rated sustained power) but how any power is actually used is up to Gotway. Half damaged motors and battery cells can still keep running so it's probably best after all (for reliability of the EUC itself) if the control board prevents the other parts from degrading.

I agree motor type is important too but high torque is only another name for low speed motor, because if you know both the max speed and the nominal power, then you know how much power is compressed into the speed range as well. But can you be sure of the max speed, because the control board will cut off the current when it reaches a certain level. With the ACM having 1500W rating and then 3000W+ as the peak spec it looks a little suspicious.. With a better control board that same motor could maybe have a 4500W peak spec and way higher max speed? The 84V Msuper already has a higher speed with again the same motor I think, so it could even be a PWM issue.. In other words the motor could be much faster than the control board can spin it, who knows?

I can't agree with you more.

What I was mean is that "power" is so ambiguous, vary according to motor type, voltage and speed, that should not be used as the single factor of EUC to determine the safty speed, 

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18 minutes ago, nomad said:

So a peak power can be specified (usually 3x rated sustained power) but how any power is actually used is up to Gotway

It's worth noting that Gotway is under heavy modification of the control board for large power EUCs. A friend of mine owns an ACM which specified as 1500W, but got fried twice in a month, and thus he got three different boards for his ACM: one with 6 MOSFETs, two with 12 MOSFETs but R002 current sense resistor, three with R001 current sense resistor and different MOSFETs. I was on site when these two incidents happened, and I have photos of the three boards.

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