New Zealand needs your help - phase II !

[The Fat Unicyclist]

Okay everyone, we've reached the next step in the process - I received this today...

"You are invited to a workshop on e-bike, mobility scooter and other low-powered vehicle standards and safety.  LPVs also include e-kick scooters, e-skateboards, and self-balancing devices such as hoverboards, e-unicycles, and Segways.   Please join representatives of industry, users, advocacy organisations, health professionals, and government agencies for a presentation of research findings.  The aim will be to inform potential regulatory and non-regulatory approaches to improving safety and health."

I'm going to this workshop, and I need to be informed on all aspects of this uni-roller-whatsit-wheely-thing;

• Safety
• Speeds
• Benefits
• Concerns
• Issues
• et cetera 

All pros and cons - I want to be able to speak to anything they may ask, and everything they need to know. 

So tell me it all - please try to keep each post to a single "theme" (so that I can keep an order to everything), but post as many times as you need to cover every aspect. 

Help me make New Zealand EUC-friendly! 

[RenaissanceMan]

Why post this thread twice?

[RenaissanceMan]

55 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Okay everyone, we've reached the next step in the process - I received this today...

"You are invited to a workshop on e-bike, mobility scooter and other low-powered vehicle standards and safety.  LPVs also include e-kick scooters, e-skateboards, and self-balancing devices such as hoverboards, e-unicycles, and Segways.   Please join representatives of industry, users, advocacy organisations, health professionals, and government agencies for a presentation of research findings.  The aim will be to inform potential regulatory and non-regulatory approaches to improving safety and health."

I'm going to this workshop, and I need to be informed on all aspects of this uni-roller-whatsit-wheely-thing;

• Safety
• Speeds
• Benefits
• Concerns
• Issues
• et cetera 

All pros and cons - I want to be able to speak to anything they may ask, and everything they need to know. 

So tell me it all - please try to keep each post to a single "theme" (so that I can keep an order to everything), but post as many times as you need to cover every aspect. 

Help me make New Zealand EUC-friendly! 

I'm afraid the answer won't fit on one side of this envelope, but I'd be happy to explain in person , provided you pay the airfare !

Really, I'd love to go back to NZ ...

[litewave]

Here's my submission:

LPVs promote personal freedom and happiness 

By enacting pro-LPV legislation, New Zealand can again set a positive example for the rest of the world that benefits its people, economy, and environment; and contributes to safer cities and global sanity!

[EUCMania]

15 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Okay everyone, we've reached the next step in the process - I received this today...

"You are invited to a workshop on e-bike, mobility scooter and other low-powered vehicle standards and safety.  LPVs also include e-kick scooters, e-skateboards, and self-balancing devices such as hoverboards, e-unicycles, and Segways.   Please join representatives of industry, users, advocacy organisations, health professionals, and government agencies for a presentation of research findings.  The aim will be to inform potential regulatory and non-regulatory approaches to improving safety and health."

I'm going to this workshop, and I need to be informed on all aspects of this uni-roller-whatsit-wheely-thing;

• Safety
• Speeds
• Benefits
• Concerns
• Issues
• et cetera 

All pros and cons - I want to be able to speak to anything they may ask, and everything they need to know. 

So tell me it all - please try to keep each post to a single "theme" (so that I can keep an order to everything), but post as many times as you need to cover every aspect. 

Help me make New Zealand EUC-friendly! 

• Safety
• Speeds
• Benefits:
• Benefit to riders: Solving the last mile problem. Increase productivity by saving commuting time. Save money. Encourage more out door activities. Improve health. Increase joy and happiness. 
• Benefit to economy of NZ. Reduce dependence on cars and petro which are all imported. Reduce traffic jam and the load of roads to save maintenance costs. By making NZ EUC friendly, it is possible to stimulate related innovation and industry to come to NZ. Those crazy EUers will come to NZ to tour.
• Benefit to environment. obvious.
• Concerns
• Issues: How to make NZ more EUC friendly? 
• et cetera 

[Rehab1]

16 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

All pros and cons - I want to be able to speak to anything they may ask, and everything they need to know. 

In my opinion Safety and Concerns will be the point of interest! No politician wants to promote a new form of transportation to their constituents if there is any fear of safety to the public.

Try offering the workshop skeptics some introductory EUC training classes. It could help change some minds but on the other hand we all know the amount of time it took to become proficient!   Would they respond favorably to licensing EUC riders that can demonstrate riding proficiency?

Wish I could attend even though we are in different countries! Best wishes and keep us posted!

[YaocH]

Singapore is one of the few countries to have embraced the new transportation modes: Personal Mobility Devices (PMDs) including EUCs, E-Scooters, E-Wheelchairs etc.

Singapore is a small city with high population and traffic density. With aims to curb car / motorcycle population and keep our roads free, the authorities have taken to encourage public and alternative modes of transport as a first / last mile solution. Cycling infrastructure and dedicated inter-town networks were built to support the adoption of cycling and these infrastructures are now expanded to accomodate the use of PMDs.

An advisory panel comprising of the Chief Executive of the local Land Transport Authority / Commissioner of the Traffic Police / Healthcare & Occupational Therapists / Heads of Interest Group Communities and other notable representatives got together to conduct field studies and focus group discussions before putting forth their recommendations. These were adopted fully by the government and will be implemented by the end of this year.

The study findings and recommendations are presented in the article attached below. Hope this is of help to you and our budding EUC community.

https://www.lta.gov.sg/data/apps/news/press/2016/20160317_AMAPPanelReport(final).pdf

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I think a really huge benefit is the versatility of electric unicycles considering their small size yet large range of travel distance.  It allows people to see and explore larger areas without needing to be transported in a fossil fuel guzzling 2000 pound vehicle.   It just seems more energy efficient to transport only 30-50 pounds of vehicle plus the weight of the rider rather than one or two tons of vehicle per rider.

Another great advantage is that it is so much smaller than a bicycle and has even a  smaller footprint than a child's tricycle, yet it can transport a full sized adult 20 to 80 kilometers or more depending on battery pack and riding conditions over all ranges of road, sidewalk, dirt path, and hills.  

It gets people who may not be fit enough for a 20 to 80 kilometre bike ride enjoying the outdoors more, and it increases their physical activity and mobility.  One of the greatest rewards for me as a rider is the ability to explore a much greater distance outdoors than I would be able to on a bicycle or other means of small personal transport.  Plus I have a lot of fun in the process!

Represented mathematically,

(EUC Riding + full battery charge + good weather conditions + increased physical activity) ^ (youthful feeling of riding + learning a new skill) * (time dilation factor due to EUC velocity relative to stationary observer) - (police giving fines^2 + moving two tons of vehicle + pollution) = fun!

 

[litewave]

@YaocH Cheers for that. New Zealand government PAs and BAs (policy analysts, business analysts) often look to Singapore when developing policy. In general, many of the recommendations could be incorporated straight-away. Whilst browsing through the document, these highlights stood out for me:

Page 4, Par 4:

1. For footpaths - personal mobility aids2, bicycles and PMDs are allowed to be used, but at a speed limit of 15km/h

2. For cycling and shared paths (such as Park Connector Networks) - personal mobility aids, bicycles, PMDs and electric bicycles are allowed to be used, but at a speed limit of 25km/h

3. On roads, only bicycles and electric bicycles are allowed 

Concur with 4.a. for urban footpaths only. Other limits to be set by local councils.

Nonconcur with 4.b. at 25km/h. Set a guideline of 50km/h max and leave to regional council.

Nonconcur with 4.c., except motorways (major highways).

Page 5:

6. all bicycles and PMDs used on public paths and roads must not weigh more than 20kg, must not exceed 700mm in width and must not have a maximum device speed exceeding 25km/h (if they are motorised). 

This is too low for public paths and roads. E-bikes generally weigh more than 20kg for starters as well as some EUCs (KS-18 1680Wh, for example) weigh more. Max width of 700mm sounds reasonable.

      7. A strong feedback from focus-group discussions concerns the prevalence of and danger posed by illegally-modified electric bicycles.  

This goes against the DIY spirit of New Zealand, and could eliminate conversion kits. Although many bicycle frames can't handle the increased stresses of high-powered motors, it would be better to require warning inserts on all motor conversions sold in the country, and require resellers to warn consumers that evaluation of candidate bicycles vehicles (e.g., skateboards et al) as well as installation should be performed by qualified personnel.

      8. Last but not least, the Panel recommends that the Government complement the above rules and code of conduct with stronger public education and enforcement efforts to raise public awareness on safety and ensure adherence to rules. The Government should also continue to build dedicated cycling paths to further reduce conflict and improve safety. 

++ for public education, drop the explicit mention of 'enforcement'. Fund NZTA to develop catchy marketing and public education campaigns to encourage adoption and safe use, as other agencies have done so well in the past.

++ for encouraging regional councils to build out the nationwide network of cycling paths.

Additional suggestions:

1. Absolutely NO Rego (motor vehicle registration) required. The idea is to encourage and promote, not tax and stifle. Any minor additional costs due to ACC can be offset elsewhere.

2. Encourage DOC and NZTA to establish specific routes for LPV enjoyment.

3. Require helmets for LPVs that can operate at speeds greater than 15km/h.

4. Require head and taillights for operating LPVs from dusk til dawn.

[litewave]

33 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Represented mathematically,

(EUC Riding + full battery charge + good weather conditions + increased physical activity) ^ (youthful feeling of riding + learning a new skill) * (time dilation factor due to EUC velocity relative to stationary observer) - (police giving fines^2 + moving two tons of vehicle + pollution) = fun!

Plus MemberTM since 2016,  Thread Derailer Specialist,  PI,  Ninebot ONE E + Rider On The Storm, Grill Manager at A&W, Doctorate of Medicine, Smilie Lobbyist 

 

Truly a Renaissance man of our time!  That's a brilliant equation worthy of a research grant from the NZ Institute of Advanced Motor Vehicle Studies!

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

[EUCMania]

19 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Okay everyone, we've reached the next step in the process - I received this today...

"You are invited to a workshop on e-bike, mobility scooter and other low-powered vehicle standards and safety.  LPVs also include e-kick scooters, e-skateboards, and self-balancing devices such as hoverboards, e-unicycles, and Segways.   Please join representatives of industry, users, advocacy organisations, health professionals, and government agencies for a presentation of research findings.  The aim will be to inform potential regulatory and non-regulatory approaches to improving safety and health."

I'm going to this workshop, and I need to be informed on all aspects of this uni-roller-whatsit-wheely-thing;

• Safety
• Speeds
• Benefits
• Concerns
• Issues
• et cetera 

All pros and cons - I want to be able to speak to anything they may ask, and everything they need to know. 

So tell me it all - please try to keep each post to a single "theme" (so that I can keep an order to everything), but post as many times as you need to cover every aspect. 

Help me make New Zealand EUC-friendly! 

We the EUC community should also have a position on safety, speed limit, right of way, safety requirement for EUC  etc.

Safety: With proper protection gear, current EUC of around $1000 are generally safe enough if rider wear protection pads, ride no more than 25km/hr. At this speed and with protection gear, falling from EUC does not cause serious injuries. The only life threatening accidents is if the rider falls in front of a moving car. Thus, if EUC is allowed on bike path or side walks, then   life threatening accidents will not occur.

Training and licensing: ???

speed limit, right of way: street worthy EUCs should be subject to speed limits on side walks and on bike paths, especially near pedestrians. A speed limit of 15 km/h in this situation is recommended. By accepting such speed limit, EUC should be allowed on side walks and bike trails.

safety equipment requirement for EUC: A street worthy EUC should have a) front, back and side lights. The lumens of front light must >= xxx, The motor wattage must be >= yyy. c)The battery capacity >=zzz. min of max current>= 70A.  d) Redundancy requirements: Example: At least 2 battery packs in parallel with separate BMSs. d) Manufacturers must provide maintenance schedules and provide parts and maintenance instructions.  

[The Fat Unicyclist]

Thank you everyone - this is all great information, which I will be collating together to have with me at the time. 

One thing in not sure about is the speed issue - while I agree that there should be limits, I don't want it to be "factory limited" - if you know what I mean.  so I have two options...

1. Speed limits are fine, but wheels should be able to go faster (for use on private paths) - after all, no one buys a car that can only do the speed limit.
2. A more powerful wheel is important as it has more torque at slower speeds, making it safer.

But (with either option) wheels that can go over the speed limit, based on where they are being ridden, must be limited (by app setting)...

Or , is it a combination of them both? 

[lizardmech]

38 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Thank you everyone - this is all great information, which I will be collating together to have with me at the time. 

One thing in not sure about is the speed issue - while I agree that there should be limits, I don't want it to be "factory limited" - if you know what I mean.  so I have two options...

1. Speed limits are fine, but wheels should be able to go faster (for use on private paths) - after all, no one buys a car that can only do the speed limit.
2. A more powerful wheel is important as it has more torque at slower speeds, making it safer.

But (with either option) wheels that can go over the speed limit, based on where they are being ridden, must be limited (by app setting)...

Or , is it a combination of them both? 

1. Speed restrictions are irrational, runners and conventional bicycles can reach 40km/h, why is an electric vehicle considered more dangerous at the same speed? Cyclists can and frequently do 40km/h+ downhill and maintain it for a while when they reach flat ground, how is it safe to have groups of bicycles trying to filter around slow ebikes and light electric vehicles that are limited to lower speeds? If 25km/h is the maximum speed small vehicles can safely travel, will they be banning bicycles from being sold with gearing that can exceed 25km/h?

2. How would modern governments have dealt with the invention of bicycles, cars and aircraft if they were invented today? Most western transport regulators are so risk adverse no new technology will ever be adopted unless multi billion dollar corporation spend money lobbying for it. Most likely they would have just outright banned all three inventions. Western countries will likely miss out on on industries related to small electric vehicles, most e-scooters, e-bike kits, EUC, are being designed, manufactured and sold by Chinese companies rather than local companies just manufacturing them in China. Countries that impose harsh restrictions or ban them kill any chance of local products and will damage their economy by falling behind in transport and productivity.

 

3. Regulators do not even appear to understand basic mechanics behind these vehicles, most of them are direct drive and have no gearing, A 10KW direct drive ebike that can only ever access all 10kw at 20km/h is not the same as a 10kw motorbike with a gearbox that access almost all 10kw across a range of speeds up to 100km/h. If they aren't willing to invest resources in understanding how they work any regulation will be a failure. This is why we have speed limits on roads instead of the government trying to micromanage vehicle mechanical properties. Having a huge government department figuring out how the latest technology works and constantly revising regulations to try and adapt is insane.

[RenaissanceMan]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Thank you everyone - this is all great information, which I will be collating together to have with me at the time. 

One thing in not sure about is the speed issue - while I agree that there should be limits, I don't want it to be "factory limited" - if you know what I mean.  so I have two options...

1. Speed limits are fine, but wheels should be able to go faster (for use on private paths) - after all, no one buys a car that can only do the speed limit.
2. A more powerful wheel is important as it has more torque at slower speeds, making it safer.

But (with either option) wheels that can go over the speed limit, based on where they are being ridden, must be limited (by app setting)...

Or , is it a combination of them both? 

I agree speed should not be a factory limited setting other than the native factory limit, like with cars. Limiting max speed by app is impractical since one very likely traverses zones of different max speed. It should be as with all other regulated vehicles that have to adhere to posted speed limitations.

4 hours ago, EUCMania said:

We the EUC community should also have a position on safety, speed limit, right of way, safety requirement for EUC  etc.

Safety: With proper protection gear, current EUC of around $1000 are generally safe enough if rider wear protection pads, ride no more than 25km/hr. At this speed and with protection gear, falling from EUC does not cause serious injuries. The only life threatening accidents is if the rider falls in front of a moving car. Thus, if EUC is allowed on bike path or side walks, then   life threatening accidents will not occur.

Training and licensing: ???

speed limit, right of way: street worthy EUCs should be subject to speed limits on side walks and on bike paths, especially near pedestrians. A speed limit of 15 km/h in this situation is recommended. By accepting such speed limit, EUC should be allowed on side walks and bike trails.

safety equipment requirement for EUC: A street worthy EUC should have a) front, back and side lights. The lumens of front light must >= xxx, The motor wattage must be >= yyy. c)The battery capacity >=zzz. min of max current>= 70A.  d) Redundancy requirements: Example: At least 2 battery packs in parallel with separate BMSs. d) Manufacturers must provide maintenance schedules and provide parts and maintenance instructions.  

Safety: there is a contradiction in your line of reasoning between "does not cause serious injuries" and "life threatening accidents". And also between "EUC of around $1000 are generally safe enough" and "At least 2 battery packs in parallel with separate BMSs".

There should be an attempt to make EUCs as failsafe as possible by introducing redundancy whereever possible without abandoning the original concept of an EUC.

I full heartedly agree with requirements on lights and also a bell (which must not necessarily be physically connected to the EUC).

I also advocate - and again that has been said before a number of times in this forum - the mandatory use of some kind of a safety belt. It is absolutely necessary to constrain the EUC from going berserk before it hurts bystanders or property (most likely cars) in the event of an unintentional dismount. Call it the emergency break. I think we have all seen enough videos with EUCs running off uncontrolled. They are like very big bullets. It also happenened to me once.

That leads to compulsary liability insurance - again, a must, like with Segways in Germany.

5 hours ago, litewave said:

@YaocH Cheers for that. New Zealand government PAs and BAs (policy analysts, business analysts) often look to Singapore when developing policy. In general, many of the recommendations could be incorporated straight-away. Whilst browsing through the document, these highlights stood out for me:

Page 4, Par 4:

1. For footpaths - personal mobility aids2, bicycles and PMDs are allowed to be used, but at a speed limit of 15km/h

2. For cycling and shared paths (such as Park Connector Networks) - personal mobility aids, bicycles, PMDs and electric bicycles are allowed to be used, but at a speed limit of 25km/h

3. On roads, only bicycles and electric bicycles are allowed 

Concur with 4.a. for urban footpaths only. Other limits to be set by local councils.

Nonconcur with 4.b. at 25km/h. Set a guideline of 50km/h max and leave to regional council.

Nonconcur with 4.c., except motorways (major highways).

Page 5:

6. all bicycles and PMDs used on public paths and roads must not weigh more than 20kg, must not exceed 700mm in width and must not have a maximum device speed exceeding 25km/h (if they are motorised). 

This is too low for public paths and roads. E-bikes generally weigh more than 20kg for starters as well as some EUCs (KS-18 1680Wh, for example) weigh more. Max width of 700mm sounds reasonable.

      7. A strong feedback from focus-group discussions concerns the prevalence of and danger posed by illegally-modified electric bicycles.  

This goes against the DIY spirit of New Zealand, and could eliminate conversion kits. Although many bicycle frames can't handle the increased stresses of high-powered motors, it would be better to require warning inserts on all motor conversions sold in the country, and require resellers to warn consumers that evaluation of candidate bicycles vehicles (e.g., skateboards et al) as well as installation should be performed by qualified personnel.

      8. Last but not least, the Panel recommends that the Government complement the above rules and code of conduct with stronger public education and enforcement efforts to raise public awareness on safety and ensure adherence to rules. The Government should also continue to build dedicated cycling paths to further reduce conflict and improve safety. 

++ for public education, drop the explicit mention of 'enforcement'. Fund NZTA to develop catchy marketing and public education campaigns to encourage adoption and safe use, as other agencies have done so well in the past.

++ for encouraging regional councils to build out the nationwide network of cycling paths.

Additional suggestions:

1. Absolutely NO Rego (motor vehicle registration) required. The idea is to encourage and promote, not tax and stifle. Any minor additional costs due to ACC can be offset elsewhere.

2. Encourage DOC and NZTA to establish specific routes for LPV enjoyment.

3. Require helmets for LPVs that can operate at speeds greater than 15km/h.

4. Require head and taillights for operating LPVs from dusk til dawn.

I like the mentioning of protection gear (and of lights, see above). It should become mandatory with EUCs as with motorcycles, since EUCs are some kind of motorcycle albeit at lower speed but with even higher physical exposure of the rider: ATGATT as they say.

Finally I just wanted to say that I have been compiling a list of advantages of EUCs (more of the general line) for use in Germany, and hence - sorry! - in German at these links. Maybe somebody would like to use translation software to get a rough translation.

EUC-Pro-Contra-final.pdf

http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/717-german-discussion-group/?do=findComment&comment=66500

 

[RenaissanceMan]

44 minutes ago, lizardmech said:

1. Speed restrictions are irrational, runners and conventional bicycles can reach 40km/h, why is an electric vehicle considered more dangerous at the same speed? Cyclists can and frequently do 40km/h+ downhill and maintain it for a while when they reach flat ground, how is it safe to have groups of bicycles trying to filter around slow ebikes and light electric vehicles that are limited to lower speeds? If 25km/h is the maximum speed small vehicles can safely travel, will they be banning bicycles from being sold with gearing that can exceed 25km/h?

2. How would modern governments have dealt with the invention of bicycles, cars and aircraft if they were invented today? Most western transport regulators are so risk adverse no new technology will ever be adopted unless multi billion dollar corporation spend money lobbying for it. Most likely they would have just outright banned all three inventions. Western countries will likely miss out on on industries related to small electric vehicles, most e-scooters, e-bike kits, EUC, are being designed, manufactured and sold by Chinese companies rather than local companies just manufacturing them in China. Countries that impose harsh restrictions or ban them kill any chance of local products and will damage their economy by falling behind in transport and productivity.

 

3. Regulators do not even appear to understand basic mechanics behind these vehicles, most of them are direct drive and have no gearing, A 10KW direct drive ebike that can only ever access all 10kw at 20km/h is not the same as a 10kw motorbike with a gearbox that access almost all 10kw across a range of speeds up to 100km/h. If they aren't willing to invest resources in understanding how they work any regulation will be a failure. This is why we have speed limits on roads instead of the government trying to micromanage vehicle mechanical properties. Having a huge government department figuring out how the latest technology works and constantly revising regulations to try and adapt is insane.

 

I sense great enthusiasm for EUCs in your post, that's great !

However, I disagree with your line of argumentation at some points.

(1) "Speed restrictions are irrational." No, in general they are not. They are there to protect me, you, your family ... And even if they can be disregarded they nevertheless - in general, in most cases - represent a norm that makes the world a better place than without them, imho. Of course, the extent and level of speed restrictions is another matter.

(2) Your line of argumantation falls for the "hypothesis contrary to fact" fallacy and is therefore not really convincing, at least not to me.

(3) Here I agree with you: there seems to be little understanding in the legislative bodies of many countries on EUCs. So we must educate them or help them educate themselves. And yes, that is a laborious process. Luckily, in Germany the goverment is on its - albeit very slow - way to get a grip of EUCs. What the outcome will be is beyond my comprehension and I doubt it'd be to my liking.

You say: "Having a huge government department figuring out how the latest technology works and constantly revising regulations to try and adapt is insane." - Why, how could they do better than that (except from being huge) ?

 

 

[Smoother]

Having nearly been run down several times by fast moving cyclists approaching silently from behind, I believe that we eWheelers, have a huge responsibility to make our, almost silent, approaches from behind, the side, and even in front, abundantly clear to unsuspecting pedestrians, and ironically, cyclists.  

If you have ever been around a large crowd in a small area, such as a busy supermarket, you know that people do not look before they change direction, or back up, or stop, or anything.  WE, as the new, faster, and currently under regulated minority, need to take complete responsibility and control, of each and every potential contact, literally, with the great unwashed.  When WE run into a pedestrian, even if they changed speed, direction, or even sexual preference, suddenly and without warning, IT IS OUR FAULT !!  Even when it wasn't. WE are new, we are different, we are faster, we are not understood, we do not belong in the natural order laid down by time; I.e. Foot traffic, bicycle traffic, and motorised traffic (licences, taxed and insured).  Even cyclists don't want electric vehicles on THEIR cycle paths.  Yes they feel entitled.  After all, they lobbied for them all those years ago.  They don't want their "pure" muscle powered paths to to sullied by peasants too lazy to pedal, or too fat to wear fake, team inspired spandex ( trust me, you don't want to see me in spandex).

get a bell, get a horn, get a whistle, get a bell/horn/whistle app, and use it frequently.  Warn everyone of your presence.  No one should be surprised by you sudden silent presence in their sphere of potential collision.  The minute pedestrians start getting knocked down by eWheelers, is the minute that the local authorities will get involved, and eWhell bans will descend across the world like the iron curtain did.  No big money lobby, FOR, = easy  to legislate AGAINST. And we have no big money on our side.

 

I'm sure you have all seen the you tube guy speeding through Alicate ( I believe it was) on his MSuper V3.  How many people did he shoot past with their backs towards him? Dozens I suspect.  Just one of those people suddenly changing direction, and that would be one nasty bone crunching, and possibly life changing collision.  Can you say "eWheels banned by Alicante city council?"  I can.  Note; not rider "x" banned, but all eWheelrs banned.  No authority has the time or resources to enact an individual ban in such an unnecessary and minority activity, such as ours.  Ban 'em all is the easiest law to enforce.

 

the thing we must understand is that legal authorities look at safety of the general public as the no 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 consideration (s). Everything else is secondary.

[RenaissanceMan]

15 minutes ago, Smoother said:

The minute pedestrians start getting knocked down by eWheelers, is the minute that the local authorities will get involved, and eWhell bans will descend across the world like the iron curtain did.  No big money lobby, FOR, = easy  to legislate AGAINST. And we have no big money on our side.

 

Fully agree with your line of cautionary riding!

One other thing: as long as there is no liability insurance available for EUC riders, any accident could easily lead to financial ruin (hospital costs, indemnification, punitive charges, or even only the cost of paint for an expensive car scratched by your EUC).

So we really need insurance when on public grounds and that requires at least some kind of legislation on EUCs.

[RenaissanceMan]

8 hours ago, YaocH said:

Singapore is one of the few countries to have embraced the new transportation modes: Personal Mobility Devices (PMDs) including EUCs, E-Scooters, E-Wheelchairs etc.

Singapore is a small city with high population and traffic density. With aims to curb car / motorcycle population and keep our roads free, the authorities have taken to encourage public and alternative modes of transport as a first / last mile solution. Cycling infrastructure and dedicated inter-town networks were built to support the adoption of cycling and these infrastructures are now expanded to accomodate the use of PMDs.

An advisory panel comprising of the Chief Executive of the local Land Transport Authority / Commissioner of the Traffic Police / Healthcare & Occupational Therapists / Heads of Interest Group Communities and other notable representatives got together to conduct field studies and focus group discussions before putting forth their recommendations. These were adopted fully by the government and will be implemented by the end of this year.

The study findings and recommendations are presented in the article attached below. Hope this is of help to you and our budding EUC community.

https://www.lta.gov.sg/data/apps/news/press/2016/20160317_AMAPPanelReport(final).pdf

They even did interviews with "the ordinary man/woman on the street" collecting their opinions on EUCs, ebikes etc and came up with favourable answers as well!

Highly commendable !

I've sent one copy to our German legislators. I hope English language won't be too much of a problem for them.

[lizardmech]

40 minutes ago, RenaissanceMan said:

 

I sense great enthusiasm for EUCs in your post, that's great !

However, I disagree with your line of argumentation at some points.

(1) "Speed restrictions are irrational." No, in general they are not. They are there to protect me, you, your family ... And even if they can be disregarded they nevertheless - in general, in most cases - represent a norm that makes the world a better place than without them, imho. Of course, the extent and level of speed restrictions is another matter.

(2) Your line of argumantation falls for the "hypothesis contrary to fact" fallacy and is therefore not really convincing, at least not to me.

(3) Here I agree with you: there seems to be little understanding in the legislative bodies of many countries on EUCs. So we must educate them or help them educate themselves. And yes, that is a laborious process. Luckily, in Germany the goverment is on its - albeit very slow - way to get a grip of EUCs. What the outcome will be is beyond my comprehension and I doubt it'd be to my liking.

You say: "Having a huge government department figuring out how the latest technology works and constantly revising regulations to try and adapt is insane." - Why, how could they do better than that (except from being huge) ?

 

 

1.There's no way to choose a good speed to limit hardware to, 25km/h is fast enough to be dangerous on a footpath but too slow to fit in with bicycle traffic.

2. Most of the countries that pride themselves as being progressive, EU, Australia and other commonwealth, are the worst at adopting electric vehicles and effectively banned them by creating poorly planned rules. You're more likely to see people commuting on electric vehicles in some US states, China and Korea. All of the countries that opted for harsh restrictions claim to be focused on reducing emissions  and climate change. It does not give much confidence that they will act rationally when it comes to new vehicles when they haven't done so the last 10 years.

3. Make footpath, bikepath and road rules not a trainwreck that tries to regulate each vehicle type individually by restricting designs.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

19 minutes ago, RenaissanceMan said:

So we really need insurance when on public grounds and that requires at least some kind of legislation on EUCs.

That's interesting - slightly off topic, but a very interesting perspective for a New Zealander...

Over here, if I am in an accident, I cannot sue the person responsible - we have a government "corporation" that covers coats, et cetera (the Accident Compensation Corporation - ACC).

And I don't know of it is related or not, but insurance is NOT compulsory - it is stupid not to have it, but it isn't a requirement. 

Having said that, I believe I CAN get insurance for my EUC - I just haven't gotten around to our yet...

[The Fat Unicyclist]

So I just saw the reminder about my LPV workshop tomorrow, the attendee list is as follows;

• NZ Transport Agency (3)
• NZ Police
• Wellington City Council (2: road safety, open space e-bike strategy author)
• Kapiti Coast (Road Safety Coordinator)
• Kapiti Older Person's Council
• ACC 
• Living Streets Aotearoa
• Shared footpath working group chair
• Grey Power
• Mobility impairment consultant
• E-bike importer
• E-bike and unpowered bike retailer
• Segway NZ
• E-kick scooter importer
• And a private citizen who is an e-unicycle owner!

 

Guess which one is me? Not that I am feeling any pressure!   

[litewave]

Is WCC hosting? I hope you make a dramatic entrance on your Lhotz, or show up early and ride around for a half hour or so at the entrance to the venue. 

Can we hope for a live blog, photos, some selfies or a police report from the event?

[litewave]

 

I think LPVs as a concept will be an easy sell at the workshop, but the market will ultimately dictate what happens. It isn't in anyone's interest to over-regulate unless there are crashes or other adverse publicity. I doubt NZ Police or NZTA have any stats. 

As with most things, EUC uptake will depend on availability and cost. Segway NZ is probably not interested (margins too low), so some brave soul will have to take the business risk and work hard to promote them. I think Wellington is the perfect city to promote EUCs as cool and economical. So maybe you can help spark interest and convince a few on the panel how much fun EUCs are to actually buy one and start riding to work in Wellington. That would be a major accomplishment for tomorrow, but you probably are already thinking that .

But I digress ....

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

So I just saw the reminder about my LPV workshop tomorrow, the attendee list is as follows;

• NZ Transport Agency (3)
• NZ Police
• Wellington City Council (2: road safety, open space e-bike strategy author)
• Kapiti Coast (Road Safety Coordinator)
• Kapiti Older Person's Council
• ACC 
• Living Streets Aotearoa
• Shared footpath working group chair
• Grey Power
• Mobility impairment consultant
• E-bike importer
• E-bike and unpowered bike retailer
• Segway NZ
• E-kick scooter importer
• The Sexy Fat Unicyclist!

 

Guess which one is me? Not that I am feeling any pressure!   

That was easy!

Seriously, I hope the meeting goes well!!