Kingsong KS 14 hard on my ankle bones ( newbee opinion)

[The Fat Unicyclist]

I think we all agree that the strap should be for tethering rather than balancing. What you tether to is slightly different...

I clipped it to my belt, but being over 100kg means that physics was on my side and I pulled on the wheel a lot more than the wheel pulled on me. But the lighter the rider, the more risky this might become. 

As for arm use - I started off flailing like Robot B-9, but calmed down as everyone does. 

Having said that, I now use my arms more... Not to stay upright, but for finer control during sharp turns, curb hops, et cetera. I think when you are pushing the wheel harder and are nearer the limits (particularly off-road) the subtle shifts to centre of gravity that it provides can be essential. 

[Mono]

4 hours ago, Obly said:

I did try to follow advice about using steering for balance (i.e., deliberately steer in the direction you're falling), and it didn't help me progress at all.

Right, this just takes too much time to do consciously, I think. What helped my was to very quickly wiggle (twist, not tilt) left-right, then the body unconsciously adjusts the right amount of left-right wiggle to keep balance.

[Mono]

4 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

I think we all agree that the strap should be for tethering rather than balancing. What you tether to is slightly different...

I clipped it to my belt, but being over 100kg means that physics was on my side and I pulled on the wheel a lot more than the wheel pulled on me. But the lighter the rider, the more risky this might become. 

When I fell the problem was not the wheel pulling my body. The problem was my leg getting entangled with the strap, and legs don't have that much of a weight advantage to the wheel. It felt a little like pulling the carpet from under my feet and no time to react.

[Smoother]

5 hour training update.

finally moved knee pads from inside of calves to knees, allowing wheel to wobble as necessary.  Did find that this allowed me to steer better, as promised above, and allowed my rides to be longer (sometimes), and even under control (sometimes). 

I have managed 2 laps, several times, of a very large, deserted, car park (est. 100m long, 80 m wide).

Tether continues to prevent massive damage and most run aways .  Did have a big fall with run away.  Full protection helped, but still twisted my ankle.  wheel ran a full 20m away then circled back, and I almost caught it but it fell over anyway ☹️ Could have been bad on an unclosed course, say, along a busy road, where it might have rolled out into traffic.?‼️

Haven't checked tire pressure since before last discussion in other thread, but pressure seems good, so no new tube needed, maybe ?. Not going to mess with it.

Joined the " bleeding ankle bone" club, on my right ankle, although not sure if from abrasion, or chariot style attack from a foot pedal after an off and subsequent tethered, wild gyrations.  Man those things can sure take a run at your ankles ( and someone else's for that matter.)

can hop on unassisted by post, wall, parking meter, etc, occasionally. Usually results in me doing an immediate 180, and then dismount.  Maybe I should face the opposite way first.

can steer, generally,. Very wide turns; wobbly but ok. Tight turns; only by accident and rarely when I need them or in a preferred direction ( thank God for a wide, closed off for the winter, car park, with a wall along the Main Street side. ?)

discovered that lower back pain was from being hunched over while walking wheel back to mounting aid (wall, fence, etc). Discovered that by discovering this... Holding the tether low and tight, at the rear of the handle, allows me to walk it at speed and under control in any direction.  Now I can walk upright, back to my preferred launch assist device.  Of course, once I can mount un assisted (that sounded a little dirty, didn't it) I won't have to do that.  however, for those looking for an alternative to luggage handles for your wheel, this technique could be used to move your wheel in areas where riding is prohibited or impractical/unsafe/unwise.  I was able to walk fast, with the wheel under full control, and correct/adjust course, simply by leaning the strap ( and therefore the wheel) in the desired direction.  Try it.  You might find a strap in your future, despite your experienced gliding level.

may try some more today. My ankle still sore from twisting.  As for the bloodied ankle, I can walk that off.

[HermanTheGerman]

On 27.10.2016 at 10:13 AM, 16bitSprite said:

I do remember getting sore ankles and calves when I first started riding too. Never to the point of bleeding. Just bruising. Even after padding it still hurt. (I remember doing the thick sock thing as well). I think it disappears when you get more confident on the wheel. You hardly wobble or touch the sides at all over time. Just keep at it. The pain will stop eventually as your skills increase.

Thanks God I never had problems with that on my KS16, when I started learning, I only had muscle soreness during the first week for some reason. But it disappeared also after a short time.

 

On 27.10.2016 at 5:44 PM, Obly said:

Also, others have said this, but as a recent new learner, I'll jump on the bandwagon: Don't focus so much on trying to put an iron grip on the wobbling, which is just a side effect of your developing balance and learner speed. As your balance becomes more sure and symmetrical, and you get up a little speed, the wheel will naturally resist wobbling and you won't even think about it anymore.

I agree completely on that. As I also know from my own experience, beginners tend to stay to far to the back of the footpads, which makes wobbling more likely than in the correct position, calves straight over the center of the wheel.

 

On 28.10.2016 at 3:38 PM, Smoother said:

Don't listen when someone on YouTube says throw away the learning strap. It's there to stop you throwing you new shiny expensive toy down the road and making a mess of it. My strap prevented several runaway mishaps on that rough hard surface. 

I agree, but I found the learning strap counterproductive for my balance and my learning progress.  Therefore I misused the safetybelt of my iceaxe for that,   because it has 2 advantages: it is stretchable, and I can clip it into my belt. I used it for several weeks, but no longer anymore, because I feel as safe now on the EU as on a bicycle, and I fear it would catch my leg when there would be some accident.

 

10 hours ago, Smoother said:

can hop on unassisted by post, wall, parking meter, etc, occasionally. Usually results in me doing an immediate 180, and then dismount.  Maybe I should face the opposite way first.

can steer, generally,. Very wide turns; wobbly but ok. Tight turns; only by accident and rarely when I need them or in a preferred direction ( thank God for a wide, closed off for the winter, car park, with a wall along the Main Street side. ?)

Don't give up, just practice a lot! 

I can only say from my experience: The first week I thought I'll never learn it, then I thought I'll never be able to do any turns, but at some time all of a sudden it was like an explosion, a big progress over a period of a few days from one day to the next - this will happen to you also!

Just 2 remarks which might help:

1) Try to practice hop on unassisted a lot (both ways: just step on/step off without starting, but also step on, drive 10 meters, step off). It might be boring, but you will need it anyhow, and it helps you gaining a better feeling of balance - at least I have the impression it pushed my overall progress forward fast.

2) And, very important, which I unfortunately didn't hear anywhere before: At turns let the wheel always touch the calf of your outer leg! Doing that makes the turn a lot more smooth and stable, it is like skiing, where you put the centrifugal force also on your outer leg.   If your skills grow, you will recognize at the end, that it is even possible to lift the inner leg completely from the footpad.

[Smoother]

On 28 October 2016 at 10:32 PM, MoNo said:

I'm having trouble quoting so Ignore MoNo ref. Above.

Herman.. I am following your journey of self doubt.  Hopefully it will lead to a similar eureka moment.  I'm having trouble visualising you "outer calf against the wheel during a turn" advice.  I want to use it but I can't see it.  It's stopped raining so I'll go to my safe training zone and try it.  Turning was on the agenda today anyway.

on a different subject, someone has been riding my wheel when I'm asleep.  That's the only way I can explain the 33km on the app.  Or did I really terrorise the promenade that much yesterday!

[HermanTheGerman]

21 hours ago, Smoother said:

 I'm having trouble visualising you "outer calf against the wheel during a turn" advice.  I want to use it but I can't see it.

Maybe I was unclear with my expressions, because I'm not a native speaker.

I'll try it differently:

If you do a turn, you lean "inside" of the turn, want to say, at a right turn you lean your body to the right, on the left turn to the left.

So at a right turn your left leg is the "outside" leg, and your right leg is the "inside" leg.

So what I meant in my prior post, is, that at any turn let the wheel touch your "outside" leg, e.g. on a right turn let it touch your left leg, on a left turn let it touch your right leg.

That makes the turn a lot smoother and stable, it is like with skiing, where you always use your outside ski and leg to carry the main forces.

If your skills grow, you will be even able to lift your inner leg from the footpads, while it is very difficult to do that with the other leg (needs special training and is only necessary if one wants to start doing tricks on the EUC).

[Smoother]

No Herman, your English is very clear, accurate and precise. No language barrier at all.   I understood you the first time.  I've watched many YouTube vids. Of people turning.  Some push down ( right turn) with their right legs and let the left pedal rise up by bending their left knee.  When this happens the wheel leans right, but the riders left knee tends to move either straight up or up and slightly left.  This is where I can't see how the outside leg can touch the wheel.  

Other turns are accomplished by leaning the body and I suppose, rotating the body also, but no rise, or separationfrom the wheel, of the outside knee is evident?  Is this the type of turn you are referring to?

[Jurgen]

My pointy ankle bones and IPS 191 didn't mix well, ankle boot sand an extra folded sock inside initially prevented the problem; after a while the skin gets thicker and it's less an of an issue.

With the IPS T680 the wide battery box is pressured between my calfs, so no more contact with the ankles, this is more stable but gives less control.

Ergonomically the EUC still has a way to go, I guess.

The strap ruins posture and balance, you should only use it to avoid the wheel running under a bus when you lose your balance.

[HermanTheGerman]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

 Some push down ( right turn) with their right legs and let the left pedal rise up by bending their left knee.  When this happens the wheel leans right, but the riders left knee tends to move either straight up or up and slightly left.  This is where I can't see how the outside leg can touch the wheel.  

Ah, now I understand.

You are right, the above version I use for very slow turns, or when I'm standing still to keep balance. But what I meant with the above description, are turns at higher speed.

E.g. when you approach a curve with 25 km/h, or you want to do something with the wheel which is called "carving" at skiing, which is some sort of higher speed slalom.

 

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

Other turns are accomplished by leaning the body and I suppose, rotating the body also, but no rise, or separationfrom the wheel, of the outside knee is evident?  Is this the type of turn you are referring to?

Yes, thats what I meant. This I use when I'm driving at higher speeds, but care has to be taken if you are on gravelroads or on wet leaves to not slide away.

[Smoother]

@HermanTheGerman. Yes, I see what you mean.  My riding skill came along a lot in the last two days.  Fast slalom with outer calf against wheel.  Yes I get it. Thanks.  Still a long way to go.  Still very much a newbie.