One Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 @tinawong Congratulations! This is the best looking EUC I've ever seen - very stylish and clean design. I hope the KS 16C will get a face lift, too. If you offer the design of the KS14 at a KS16 I can definitely say Ninebot will loose a client (me). Keep on the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 On 10/23/2016 at 9:21 AM, Paddylaz said: Lol. That top half kinda looks like another wheel.................?? actually like a recombination of two, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 10/24/2016 at 0:58 AM, Jason McNeil said: Now that the story is out, I think KS are somewhat misguided in the direction of the 14D: just by going from the raw specifications, it's going to be let down by the limited number of battery cells, presumably 32x in top-end 420Wh & just 24x in the 340Wh version. One would think that with their two years experience with making Wheels, one the principle lessons that should have been hammered home, is that it takes at least 40x (7-10A) cells to make a decent modern high-performing Wheel. The 14D is going be retailing at around a similar price point as the V5F+ but in just about every important area, it's going to likely struggle to make an inroad in the 14" market, which has already has two heavy-weights dominating this space with S2 & V5F. The design—like in gun manufacturing for the military, which builds around a specific caliber shell—ought to have been designed around the battery pack requirement of 64x cells. I'd love you hear your rant about the Ninebot A1 which has 1550Wh, no, wait, that was one zero too many... I am not sure whether I agree with your market prediction. The point to be in the EUC market (as a producer) would be to see huge growth rates and hence 80-90% of all sales go to first time buyers. For these, the price tag (and the looks?) is probably more important than a large battery. I think this is quite likely to happen and IPS Zero, NB A1/S2, IM V5, now KS14D... do all the right thing and, if all goes well, have plenty of customer to share between them. Of course, prediction is difficult, in particular of the future, but, isn't the V5 right now getting your best selling wheel ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 10/23/2016 at 10:21 AM, Cloud said: The handle on ks16 is not bad...that is unless you are lefthanded.... Which hand do you use to push or carry a wheel if you are left handed? I am right handed but have absolutely no preference for these two activities, so I have no clue on which side this would go wrong and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 10/24/2016 at 3:39 AM, Jason McNeil said: access to the fuse ooops, there is still a fuse. That is close to a deal breaker to me, unless you convince me that the fuse will only burn at 0 speed or the wheel will still balance if the fuse has burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 hours ago, MoNo said: Which hand do you use to push or carry a wheel if you are left handed? I am right handed but have absolutely no preference for these two activities, so I have no clue on which side this would go wrong and why. I am right handed and i always use my right hand to push the wheel. I could use left hand but it would feel a bit strange. Msome people can use either hand equally comfortably, you must be one of them. The handle on ks16 is not straight ( not parallel to direction of travel). Its at an angle ( 45 degress or so) which makes it ok to hold with the right hand, but holding with the left hand would make the hand rotated to an uncomfortable angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I don't feel that a 45º outward rotation of my hand is (much) less comfortable than a 45º inward rotation. Did you actually try this? I think for pushing then you would rather grip the handle from below instead of from above. FTR, my writing skills with the right hand are much better than with the left, so I don't think I would pass as being truly ambidextrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 15 hours ago, MoNo said: ooops, there is still a fuse. That is close to a deal breaker to me, unless you convince me that the fuse will only burn at 0 speed or the wheel will still balance if the fuse has burned. The fuse will only burn if otherwise the board would burn.... So what do you like more? An eventual faceplant with an destroyed board or an faceplant with an destroyed replaceable fuse? :-) A Fuse is not always an bad design.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 12 hours ago, Cloud said: I am right handed and i always use my right hand to push the wheel. I could use left hand but it would feel a bit strange. Msome people can use either hand equally comfortably, you must be one of them. The handle on ks16 is not straight ( not parallel to direction of travel). Its at an angle ( 45 degress or so) which makes it ok to hold with the right hand, but holding with the left hand would make the hand rotated to an uncomfortable angle. such a bad design a classic case of "FORM OVER FUNCTION" i mean... is ANYONE left-handed at their factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 16 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: The fuse will only burn if otherwise the board would burn.... This should be the case with a perfectly designed motherboard and firmware. If the fuse is the absolute last resort for extreme cases like cable insulations gone, etc... But if the fuse gets blown in "normal" use cases like high load/ overload that is _absolutely_ _bad_ design! Quote So what do you like more? An eventual faceplant with an destroyed board or an faceplant with an destroyed replaceable fuse? :-) A faceplant with an firmware that regulated the mosfets down before they could burn and before the fuse was blown. And this together with a firmware that warned before (or at least at the moment it could have been known), so the faceplant was just my last will... Quote A Fuse is not always an bad design.... No. Absolutely not. There are many cases were a fuse can be very usefull and prevent unwanted situations. But as they get blown while driving like ?now (did not here of blown fuses with the actual firmware...)?/some firmwares before that was absolutely bad design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Sometimes stylistic cues take precedence over practicality. A simple redesign of the handle like this from an overhead perspective would straighten things out. Or even make it slightly curvey instead of the right angles to fit into the rounded style of the wheel. With all that blank space on the top, I wish they could have incorporated an easy to glance at battery indicator readout and maybe a speedometer to check while riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 13 hours ago, Cloud said: I am right handed and i always use my right hand to push the wheel. I could use left hand but it would feel a bit strange. Msome people can use either hand equally comfortably, you must be one of them. The handle on ks16 is not straight ( not parallel to direction of travel). Its at an angle ( 45 degress or so) which makes it ok to hold with the right hand, but holding with the left hand would make the hand rotated to an uncomfortable angle. One can rotates the wheel by 180° - so any left/right/or whatsoever hander can push the wheel with the trolly handly with any of the two possible angles... 12 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Sometimes stylistic cues take precedence over practicality. A simple redesign of the handle like this from an overhead perspective would straighten things out. Could be an even better solution. But without trying i could not say if this slight angle or a "straight" trolly handle performs better.... ... looking at your drawing in detail, the main handle part is not really straight - maybe your + membership is a bit too exhausting for you... Quote With all that blank space on the top, I wish they could have incorporated an easy to glance at battery indicator readout and maybe a speedometer. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 17 minutes ago, Chriull said: ... looking at your drawing in detail, the main handle part is not really straight - maybe your + membership is a bit too exhausting for you... Maybe it's not my handle, but your monitor is not level. A slight artistic lean gives it some character. Besides, some highly admired things have a slight lean/curve to the side. Take, for instance, these three examples: The last one I won't post as this is a PG-13 forum. That reminds me - I need another Russian model massage in the plus members only area. Oh the stresses of plus membership! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 15 minutes ago, Chriull said: One can rotates the wheel by 180° - so any left/right/or whatsoever hander can push the wheel with the trolly handly with any of the two possible angles... Rotating the unit 180° doesn't change the orientation of the handle. Try it and see what I mean the handle is made for right-handed person whether the unit is facing forwards or backwards you cannot push it with your left hand the matter which direction because the direction that handle is oriented is the same When you rotate it hundred 80° Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Eucist Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said: the handle is made for right-handed person whether the unit is facing forwards or backwards I just sold my KS16 in Shenzhen (and I'm in Shenzhen right now, my other KS16 is in Hong Kong) so I couldn't test. But it seems like if you use your left hand with an "underhand grip" (palms facing forwards) shouldn't that work? BTW I'm right handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 minute ago, John Eucist said: 1 minute ago, John Eucist said: I just sold my KS16 in Shenzhen (and I'm in Shenzhen right now) so I couldn't test. But it seems like if you use your left hand with an "underhand grip" (palms facing forwards) shouldn't that work? BTW I'm right handed. you surely might be right about that... i have used but don't own that wheel the sturdiness of the handle is RELATIVELY awesome.... much better than the Inmotion one not sure why they made it diagonal in orientation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, MoNo said: I don't feel that a 45º outward rotation of my hand is (much) less comfortable than a 45º inward rotation. Did you actually try this? I think for pushing then you would rather grip the handle from below instead of from above. FTR, my writing skills with the right hand are much better than with the left, so I don't think I would pass as being truly ambidextrous. Yes i tried it. I cannot imagine how an outward 45 angke can be as comfortable. I cant even turn my hand this way, unless i stretch my arm to the side away from my body. You can still push it with the left hand, you just have to grab it differently, its not the end of the world 46 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Sometimes stylistic cues take precedence over practicality. A simple redesign of the handle like this from an overhead perspective would straighten things out. Or even make it slightly curvey instead of the right angles to fit into the rounded style of the wheel. With all that blank space on the top, I wish they could have incorporated an easy to glance at battery indicator readout and maybe a speedometer to check while riding. Good. But with this design, will it fold all the way? 17 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said: Rotating the unit 180° doesn't change the orientation of the handle. Try it and see what I mean the handle is made for right-handed person whether the unit is facing forwards or backwards you cannot push it with your left hand the matter which direction because the direction that handle is oriented is the same When you rotate it hundred 80° Correct. Rotating the wheel 180 does not change the orientation of the handle 59 minutes ago, Chriull said: No. Absolutely not. There are many cases were a fuse can be very usefull and prevent unwanted situations. But as they get blown while driving like ?now (did not here of blown fuses with the actual firmware...)?/some firmwares before that was absolutely bad design... I would think that fuses belong in things that dont move and whose movement does not rely on the operation of the fuse. CRs have fuses but they are for stationary things ( lights, electrics, cigarette lighter etc). I dont think fuses belong in a system who safe operation depends on it. ( as in, if the fuse blows, you faceplant). To me this is not a good design, and this goes across many euc brands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Eucist Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said: the sturdiness of the handle is RELATIVELY awesome.... much better than the Inmotion one not sure why they made it diagonal in orientation Because unlike the Inmotion V8 the KS16 trolley handle also acts as the "main handle" when collapsed. The diagonal design allows the handle to be directly on top of the center of mass of the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Greg Spalding said: such a bad design a classic case of "FORM OVER FUNCTION" i mean... is ANYONE left-handed at their factory? It doesnt bother me that much though. Yes its a little uncomfortable for the left handed, but being diagonal makes it more comfortable for the right handed people who are in majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 You got me good on this one, @HunkaHunkaBurningLove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: The fuse will only burn if otherwise the board would burn.... Do you have insider information on this? I think you can't really know, as the fuse is meant to react before the board is damaged. It is probably very hard to configure the fuse such that it only burns if the board would have been damaged otherwise. 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: So what do you like more? An eventual faceplant with an destroyed board or an faceplant with an destroyed replaceable fuse? :-) Limiters such that it becomes off-limits to burn the board. As not all EUCs seem to have fuses, I assume it is possible to design board and controller that they (virtually) never get in a state where the board burns. Any case one can think of a fuse would handle should be handled differently and without turning self-balancing off. 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: A Fuse is not always an bad design.... if burning the fuse keeps the wheel balanced it's totally fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Chriull said: One can rotates the wheel by 180° - so any left/right/or whatsoever hander can push the wheel with the trolly handly with any of the two possible angles... no, a 180 doesn't change the angle at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 57 minutes ago, Cloud said: Yes i tried it. I cannot imagine how an outward 45 angke can be as comfortable. I cant even turn my hand this way, unless i stretch my arm to the side away from my body. Turn you hand with palms up and try again. Does that work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, MoNo said: Turn you hand with palms up and try again. Ok yes this works, just not super comfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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