King Song KS-14D

[Cloud]

3 minutes ago, hyiu00 said:

But 400mm wide is impossible.

Why is it impossible?

[hyiu00]

6 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Why is it impossible?

Okay I think you mean with pedals outfolded to 400mm.  But what is important is the width while riding.  I think the V5F is about 14x mm.  The thinner the better for maneuverability.

[Cloud]

1 minute ago, hyiu00 said:

Okay I think you mean outfold to 400mm.  But what is important is the width while riding.  I think the V5F is about 14x mm.

Yes unfolded. Ks14c width with unfolded pedals is approx 395mm , so i am sure this is what they meant

yes with oedals folded is probably more important, but unfolded dimension is good to know also

[steve454]

2 hours ago, Cloud said:

maybe i could gift them to someone...

I donated my TGT3 to the Goodwill store with instructions about charger safety attached  to it and did not get a tax receipt.  If you got the receipt you could claim it as a deduction, but then it might be traceable to you.

[steve454]

3 hours ago, Cloud said:

maybe i could gift them to someone...

I donated my TGT3 to the Goodwill store with instructions about charger safety attached  to it and did not get a tax receipt.  If you got the receipt you could claim it as a deduction, but then it might be traceable to you.

It would be a lot harder to donate a good wheel like a Kingsong

[Jason McNeil]

Now that the story is out, I think KS are somewhat misguided in the direction of the 14D: just by going from the raw specifications, it's going to be let down by the limited number of battery cells, presumably 32x in top-end 420Wh & just 24x in the 340Wh version. 

One would think that with their two years experience with making Wheels, one the principle lessons that should have been hammered home, is that it takes at least 40x (7-10A) cells to make a decent modern high-performing Wheel. The 14D is going be retailing at around a similar price point as the V5F+ but in just about every important area, it's going to likely struggle to make an inroad in the 14" market, which has already has two heavy-weights dominating this space with S2 & V5F. The design—like in gun manufacturing for the military, which builds around a specific caliber shell—ought to have been designed around the battery pack requirement of 64x cells. 

People who buy a King Song are invariably not first-time buyers, but were attracted to massive >680Wh packs, >800W motors & reasonably good ride safety. I'm pretty certain there was no Market Research done to ascertain what features the Experienced Rider Community or Distributors wanted, or even the evidence of their Direct Sales. In my experience, when presenting two different sized batteries packs for the same Wheel, 90% of buyers will choose the one with the bigger pack.  

I'm also skeptical about the 100-150kg weight limit, really KS? How many kms of testing have you conducted with 150kg riders with this Wheel?

[Greg Spalding]

12 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Now that the story is out, I think KS are somewhat misguided in the direction of the 14D: just by going from the raw specifications, it's going to be let down by the limited number of battery cells, presumably 32x in top-end 420Wh & just 24x in the 340Wh version. 

One would think that with their two years experience with making Wheels, one the principle lessons that should have been hammered home, is that it takes at least 40x (7-10A) cells to make a decent modern high-performing Wheel. The 14D is going be retailing at around a similar price point as the V5F+ but in just about every important area, it's going to likely struggle to make an inroad in the 14" market, which has already has two heavy-weights dominating this space with S2 & V5F. The design—like in gun manufacturing for the military, which builds around a specific caliber shell—ought to have been designed around the battery pack requirement of 64x cells. 

People who buy a King Song are invariably not first-time buyers, but were attracted to massive >680Wh packs, >800W motors & reasonably good ride safety. I'm pretty certain there was no Market Research done to ascertain what features the Experienced Rider Community or Distributors wanted, or even the evidence of their Direct Sales. In my experience, when presenting two different sized batteries packs for the same Wheel, 90% of buyers will choose the one with the bigger pack.  

I'm also skeptical about the 100-150kg weight limit, really KS? How many kms of testing have you conducted with 150kg riders with this Wheel?

Jason,

THAT being said....

and, not to put you on the spot... but HOW will THIS affect YOUR relationship with the King Song?

[Jason McNeil]

1 minute ago, Greg Spalding said:

not to put you on the spot... but HOW will THIS affect YOUR relationship with the King Song?

I told them all this when I was in Shenzhen in June. There's not going to be many 14C owners on this forum who going to think 'oh goodie! This is a compelling upgrade for me', because it simply isn't.

[codersarepeople]

1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said:

I told them all this when I was in Shenzhen in June. There's not going to be many 14C owners on this forum who going to think 'oh goodie! This is a compelling upgrade for me', because it simply isn't.

@Jason McNeil I definitely agree. I got a ks14c from Jason just a month ago, and an planning on a vf5+ as a second wheel for my girlfriend to ride very soon. When I saw the thread title, I thought "oh no ill have to wait for the ks14d", but after looking at the specs, I'm planning on just getting the v5f as I had originally planned.

[Greg Spalding]

49 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

I told them all this when I was in Shenzhen in June. There's not going to be many 14C owners on this forum who going to think 'oh goodie! This is a compelling upgrade for me', because it simply isn't.

is GotWay looking "RELATIVELY" good to you now (as a perfect compliment to Inmotion)? i'm being completely serious with THAT question.

[Cloud]

I agree with @Jason McNeil's points, but i can also see a parallel line of argument here.

yes, they are downgrading the battery specs from the KS14c, but they are gaining a lot instead.

1. They create a good looking wheel definitely aesthetically more appealing and visually consistent with the 16" look ( i am going to make a prediction here that next Kingsong will change its 18" to also look along the same lines")

2. They are catching up with the market that looks in the direction of a lighter smaller wheel for those who dont need a long ranger

3. They are sorting out their own product line, which makes more sense to me now. Each product compliments the other and doesnt cannibalize the profits from the same product line. Each  (14' 16' 18) now has its own purpose and application. Also pricewise this makes more sense - reduce the cost of the light, lower end wheel and diversify the cost range. I can see a repeat customer, who likes kingsong to go for  14d after owning ks16 as these now have different purpose/ application.

yes, if i own a ks14c, iam not going to replace it with 14d , if this is going to be my only wheel. But if i own a k16, like kingsong And want something smaller and lighter and more agile for shorter trips, i could pull the trigger on ks14

this is why i believe, that even though they may need to do some work with the battery, they are on the very right track to perfect their product line

 

[Jason McNeil]

I've just been chatting with Tina.... She sent me some more info on it, & yes, it's not as bad as all that: evidently there's the possibility of making a 48 cell version of it in the near future (now we're talking ):

• Pedals look awesome, grippy & large surface area
• There's a USB port & flap to access to the fuse without needing to tear the Wheel apart if it blows
• Handle has been replaced with a magnesium alloy, looks top notch

Dooh, missed one of the most important things! Speed still not settled, but might be rated to 30kph.

[Cloud]

13 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

I've just been chatting with Tina.... She sent me some more info on it, & yes, it's not as bad as all that: evidently there's the possibility of making a 48 cell version of it in the near future (now we're talking ):

• Pedals look awesome, grippy & large surface area
• There's a USB port & flap to access to the fuse without needing to tear the Wheel apart if it blows
• Handle has been replaced with a magnesium alloy, looks top notch

Dooh missed one of the most important things! Speed still not settled, but might be rated to 30kph.

Now we are talking Jason.

With the harder response, a stronger battery, and hopefully higher pedals ( if you convince kingsong not to lower them) , and 800w vs The other brand's 500w, this is going to become one very competitive wheel.

[John Eucist]

1 minute ago, Cloud said:

and hopefully higher pedals ( if you convince kingsong not to lower them) 

I cannot emphasize this enough.  Please find out why on earth they would want to change it to be lower.  For the record, I was told by Thomas Hoon that they want to lower it in the "final version".  I already asked @tinawong and she said she will get back to me on the answer but I'm not counting on it.

[Jason McNeil]

5 minutes ago, Cloud said:

this is going to become one very competitive wheel.

Does it pass the test of 'Competitive enough for a Cloud to buy one?'    

Tina says they will not lower them.

[Cloud]

8 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Does it pass the test of 'Competitive enough for a Cloud to buy one?'    

Tina says they will not lower them.

It would pass the test  problem is i have 2 ks14c. And not so keen on selling as i am paramoid that after the buyer mixes up the plus with the minus on the battery and blows himself up, i will end up in court  

if i didnt have the 2-ks14c , id jump for this one 

Fantastic if they keep the pedals high. One of the things v5f definetely has on ks14c is manouverability, which, apart from being a lighter wheel, is achieved through the harder response and higher pedals

[John Eucist]

13 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Tina says they will not lower them.

Excellent.

 

10 minutes ago, Cloud said:

It would pass the test  problem is i have 2 ks14c. And not so keen on selling as i am paramoid that after the buyer mixes up the plus with the minus on the battery and blows himself up, i will end up in court  

if i didnt have the 2-ks14c , id jump for this one 

Same here and I have four ks14c lol.

[Cloud]

7 minutes ago, John Eucist said:

 

Same here and I have four ks14c lol.

If i lived in Hong Kong, i wouldnt be so worried...but i dont really know the situation there

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

They should devise some sort of customer height adjustable pedal system so people can set them where ever they want.  They should also provide small, medium, large, godzilla-size pedals as options that can be easily swapped by resellers to tailor a wheel to a customer's preference.  Or maybe create an adjustable sized pedal or top template that can be bolted on easily.

[tinawong]

19 hours ago, John Eucist said:

For top speed, we will need further testing to finalize, we may make it at 30km/h, will post in forum when confirmed :-)

[tinawong]

5 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Now that the story is out, I think KS are somewhat misguided in the direction of the 14D: just by going from the raw specifications, it's going to be let down by the limited number of battery cells, presumably 32x in top-end 420Wh & just 24x in the 340Wh version. 

One would think that with their two years experience with making Wheels, one the principle lessons that should have been hammered home, is that it takes at least 40x (7-10A) cells to make a decent modern high-performing Wheel. The 14D is going be retailing at around a similar price point as the V5F+ but in just about every important area, it's going to likely struggle to make an inroad in the 14" market, which has already has two heavy-weights dominating this space with S2 & V5F. The design—like in gun manufacturing for the military, which builds around a specific caliber shell—ought to have been designed around the battery pack requirement of 64x cells. 

People who buy a King Song are invariably not first-time buyers, but were attracted to massive >680Wh packs, >800W motors & reasonably good ride safety. I'm pretty certain there was no Market Research done to ascertain what features the Experienced Rider Community or Distributors wanted, or even the evidence of their Direct Sales. In my experience, when presenting two different sized batteries packs for the same Wheel, 90% of buyers will choose the one with the bigger pack.  

I'm also skeptical about the 100-150kg weight limit, really KS? How many kms of testing have you conducted with 150kg riders with this Wheel?

For the battery packs, we will release 420wh to oversea market, if there is requirements, 340wh we will also consider.  For larger batteries, if there is big demand, we will modify module of body shell to extend the capacity. 

For the weight testing, thanks for your suggestion, Jason, i will offer this feedback to engineer team to do full testing. 

[tinawong]

5 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Now that the story is out, I think KS are somewhat misguided in the direction of the 14D: just by going from the raw specifications, it's going to be let down by the limited number of battery cells, presumably 32x in top-end 420Wh & just 24x in the 340Wh version. 

One would think that with their two years experience with making Wheels, one the principle lessons that should have been hammered home, is that it takes at least 40x (7-10A) cells to make a decent modern high-performing Wheel. The 14D is going be retailing at around a similar price point as the V5F+ but in just about every important area, it's going to likely struggle to make an inroad in the 14" market, which has already has two heavy-weights dominating this space with S2 & V5F. The design—like in gun manufacturing for the military, which builds around a specific caliber shell—ought to have been designed around the battery pack requirement of 64x cells. 

People who buy a King Song are invariably not first-time buyers, but were attracted to massive >680Wh packs, >800W motors & reasonably good ride safety. I'm pretty certain there was no Market Research done to ascertain what features the Experienced Rider Community or Distributors wanted, or even the evidence of their Direct Sales. In my experience, when presenting two different sized batteries packs for the same Wheel, 90% of buyers will choose the one with the bigger pack.  

I'm also skeptical about the 100-150kg weight limit, really KS? How many kms of testing have you conducted with 150kg riders with this Wheel?

 

[John Eucist]

In the past I have been buying high Wh configurations NOT because I wanted more range but because the more packs wired in parallel the less the voltage drops during spikes in current demand.  So to me 4 packs in parallel are superior to 2 packs in parallel, etc.  Is my understanding correct?  @Jason McNeil

[Marty Backe]

Does this mean the 14C is dead? I've only had mine for a month or so and I love it. The 840 wh battery is fantastic for riding without having to worry about range.

[John Eucist]

46 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Does this mean the 14C is dead? I've only had mine for a month or so and I love it. The 840 wh battery is fantastic for riding without having to worry about range.

Obviously not, since your battery capacity is double and "voltage drop" is halved.