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MSuper 22" with 1600 Wh/ 2400 Wh


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On 10/22/2016 at 11:30 AM, ELECTROWAY said:

Today I tested it. I think this wheel is best for outdoor riding. Soon I make video for my channel on YouTube 

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Let us know when you post a video of this, and please provide the link... I'm considering upgrading..  Thanks!

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I think Gotway have missed an opportunity with this design.

From the pics I note the overall height is very similar to the KS18, difference being where the pads touch the riders leg. One of the most pleasing aspect of the KS design is the comfort and control afforded the rider due to pads contacting at knee height rather than lower on the leg.

I believe, control at knee height is hugely superior riding position for a cruising wheel

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8 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Let's take a cursory look at some pricing, and keep in mind it's not even wholesale pricing to factories...

 

6 hours ago, MoNo said:

Are you sure that this calculation was based on prices for which producers in China buy the single components? 

Those were retail prices to the public on Alibaba so factories who buy the items in quantity likely get a better price point so the margin is even greater.  Keep in mind though that custom shell fabrication costs might be a bit pricey as @esaj has mentioned some pricing for custom work previously so that is an unknown quantity that is difficult to factor into the shell price.  I don't know how much it costs to get a plastic shell casing designed and made in China.  It was just a simple example so you have to extrapolate a bit yourself.

 

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20 hours ago, Greg Spalding said:

in the US.... $1,375.00

normal Tax rates on Euc's in europe , just for getting them here (or even for Germany ...dont know exactly) is plus 26%(19+7))

@Jason McNeil can tell exactly about north american and europe tax differences ;-)

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54 minutes ago, OliverH said:

Some more specs are available:

http://www.eroue.fr/gotway-monster-22-pouces/

1600 Wh 27 kg, 13 h charging time

2400 Wh 29 kg, 19 h charging time

Why do the 22" has no different charger? 13/ 19h charging time is not what most people are looking for.

Wow...its getting more and more ridiculous...

think of crashing/falling and a nearly 30kg block flying around and hitting you or some other :o

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29 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

normal Tax rates on Euc's in europe , just for getting them here (or even for Germany ...dont know exactly) is plus 26%(19+7))

@Jason McNeil can tell exactly about north american and europe tax differences ;-)

of course.... after our presidential vote 2 weeks from today.... no one knows what's going to happen in this country

2 jackasses running for our highest office.... we might all be moving into YOUR house (DO YOU HAVE ANY ROOM?) :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

Wow...its getting more and more ridiculous...

think of crashing/falling and a nearly 30kg block flying around and hitting you or some other :o

say at the moderate cruising speed of 35km/h (as max speed is 45-50km/h). 

That doesn't make me happy about the prospects of how law enforcement might understandably change their (so far mostly positive) attitude in how to handle EUCs in not so far future.

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Just now, MoNo said:

say at the moderate cruising speed of 35km/h (as max speed is 45-50km/h). 

That doesn't make me happy about the prospects of how law enforcement might understandably change their attitude in how to handle EUCs in not so far future.

Exactly...

i have an 1360wh KS18... which has about 22,5kg ...dont know super exactly...

THIS ks is so heavy...i can not imagine a nearly 8kg more...in no way our Police will tolerate this on sidewalks or on the streets...

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As EUC's become heavier as manufacturers pack as much watt hours in, is there a point where the braking distance just gets too large to be safe?  My Ninebot One is pretty hefty with just one 320 Wh battery pack.  Does it become an issue with heavier EUCs stopping while going down hills for example or cruising along at a high speed and needing to stop suddenly?  On the NB it stops pretty quickly and feels pretty safe.

After viewing @EU GUY's excellent braking distance video it appears that the extra mass requires a lot more room to come to a stop.  I'm all for increased maximum range and safety, but I don't know if the motor / control system is being tweaked to handle larger loads especially with heavier riders?  EU GUY doesn't look very heavy, and his wheel needs a fair bit of stopping room.  Are we going to hit some unsafe limit where the motor just can't stop well enough?

Imagine a Porsche braking hard down a hill.  Now imagine a Porsche towing a large boat behind it braking down the same hill to avoid that child crossing the road...

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2 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Does it become an issue with heavier EUCs stopping while going down hills for example or cruising along at a high speed and needing to stop suddenly?

No, no real issue there. As long as rider and EUC are connected, the weight differentials of current EUCs are close to irrelevant for brake performance. Controller design and heat dissipation are likely to be the (much more) relevant issues, apart from heavy riders which I wouldn't call an issue though.

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7 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

Exactly...

i have an 1360wh KS18... which has about 22,5kg ...dont know super exactly...

THIS ks is so heavy...i can not imagine a nearly 8kg more...in no way our Police will tolerate this on sidewalks or on the streets...

Yes. We need to wait for better battery technology with more power density in the same volume/ weight. 

Sidewalks are anyway a no go area for us because of the lobby of pedestrians. Only kids are allowed to a defined age with toys and kid bicycles. EUCs should be OK on bike lanes.

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32 minutes ago, OliverH said:

the lobby of pedestrians

LOL, I guess these lobbyists do it for free, or don't they? These damn environmentalists... 

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22 hours ago, MoNo said:

LOL, I guess these lobbyists do it for free, or don't they? These damn environmentalists... 

If you start to finalise a standard it goes in review to all member bodies (DIN in Germany, AFNOR in France,..). Beside this lobby groups are also invited to participate the reviews. Even on the law level they're invited. They've a big force. 

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On 26/10/2016 at 0:33 AM, KingSong69 said:

Exactly...

i have an 1360wh KS18... which has about 22,5kg ...dont know super exactly...

THIS ks is so heavy...i can not imagine a nearly 8kg more...in no way our Police will tolerate this on sidewalks or on the streets...

My 26" weighs in at only 18kg (1200W) I've purposely kept battery at 680w which still gives good range because of the larger wheel. Don't know why GW didn't take this into consideration. #uninspiringCo

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4 minutes ago, Peter Brierley said:

My 26" weighs in at only 18kg (1200W) I've purposely kept battery at 680w which still gives good range because of the larger wheel. Don't know why GW didn't take this into consideration. #uninspiringCo

If you're a heavy weight rider on the upper spec of max load you know why they did it. I drain a 680 Wh battery of an ACM on a flat road in less then 31 km with a medium speed (around 20 km/h). I would love/ respect this battery capacity. But I'll not buy a MSuper 22". My MSuper V2 is fitted/ upgraded to 887 Wh. With this I'm fine now.  1+ KWh would be better. Since the charging problem is not solved  and I can not get a big optional 4A or more charger with me on tours this is a nogo. 5-6h as of today are still not acceptable (680+ Wh). Up to 19h is just a joke.

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4 minutes ago, OliverH said:

I can not get a big optional 4A or more charger with me on tours

Is it because you don't have one or because it is too heavy?

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5 minutes ago, OliverH said:

If you're a heavy weight rider on the upper spec of max load you know why they did it. I drain a 680 Wh battery of an ACM on a flat road in less then 31 km with a medium speed (around 20 km/h). I would love/ respect this battery capacity. But I'll not buy a MSuper 22". My MSuper V2 is fitted/ upgraded to 887 Wh. With this I'm fine now.  1+ KWh would be better. Since the charging problem is not solved  and I can not get a big optional 4A or more charger with me on tours this is a nogo. 5-6h as of today are still not acceptable (680+ Wh). Up to 19h is just a joke.

Good design takes many factors into consideration, a compromise to give best overall result.  A wheel that weighs 27kg is beyond practical useable weight, will have poor braking capabilities and lose ride agility and handling. 

By time you have built a wheel with these unwanted characteristics, surely a manufacturer would be aware and look to improve the wheel by limiting battery to reduce weight. After all, increased diameter already gives you increased range.

13 hours or 19 hours recharge, seriously ?

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6 minutes ago, Peter Brierley said:

Good design takes many factors into consideration, a compromise to give best overall result.  A wheel that weighs 27kg is beyond practical useable weight, will have poor braking capabilities and lose ride agility and handling. 

By time you have built a wheel with these unwanted characteristics, surely a manufacturer would be aware and look to improve the wheel by limiting battery to reduce weight. After all, increased diameter already gives you increased range.

13 hours or 19 hours recharge, seriously ?

A wheel of this size and weight might be "pushing the limit" a bit but big size wheels have its use, application and appeal. It is still more  compact than a bike and offers increased perceived stability and smoothness of ride. Limiting the battery to save weight doesnt make sense to me - this is a long range cruiser and requires more battery, besides cutting the battery wont make that much difference in the already heavy wheel- it will just handicap its long range capabilities and compromise its intended application.

how does the increased diameter increase the range?

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1 minute ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Just guessing, but a larger diameter wheel travels farther due to the increased circumference as it spins per revolution?

How is that possible? How can a bigger diameter wheel having the same battery ( energy) as the smaller wheel do more Work of transporting the same rider over longer distance? Where will the required added energy come from? ( discounting bearing friction, etc)

Longer distance traveled per revolution - yes, but each revolution will require more energy....

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6 minutes ago, Cloud said:

How is that possible? How can a bigger diameter wheel having the same battery ( energy) as the smaller wheel do more Work of transporting the same rider over longer distance? Where will the required added energy come from? ( discounting bearing friction, etc)

Longer distance traveled per revolution - yes, but each revolution will require more energy....

Wheel diameter is equivalent to gears. Comparing 18" to 22" is like driving all day in 3rd gear instead of 4th gear. 18" to 26" is like 3rd gear to 5th gear. The taller gear goes further and at higher speed without changing the motor

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10 minutes ago, Mistagear said:

Wheel diameter is equivalent to gears. Comparing 18" to 22" is like driving all day in 3rd gear instead of 4th gear. 18" to 26" is like 3rd gear to 5th gear. The taller gear goes further and at higher speed without changing the motor

Yeah, but to ride in the faster gear you have to apply more force on the pedals.

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