ELECTROWAY Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Today I tested it. I think this wheel is best for outdoor riding. Soon I make video for my channel on YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 hours ago, zlymex said: That's right, and that's why I quoted the word torque, and the unit is kgf(kg force, not in Nm). It is actually the torque divided by wheel radius and divided by g(=9.8). If the kgf is equal, then we have equal ability to climb or to accelerate. Nice! I didnt notice this before. So the "torque" in the graph is actually the force acting at the point and along the circumference of the tyre. so this actually adequately shows the comparative ability to fight resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 When you gonna post up a video of you riding, Cloudy? Plus we're waiting for that Bluetooth speaker roundup review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 7 hours ago, SuperSport said: Why did you sell your V3, and what did you replace it with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Let's talk about the price of MSuper 22" or what ever it will be called. Looking at the battery size I think the 1600 Wh will be north 2000 EUR and the 2400 Wh can be north 3000 EUR. Engineering costs will continue to improve/ finalise the mainboard. Home many sales Gotway need to see break even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'm guessing if the the MSuperDeeDuper (my new name for it - MSuper Double D for short ) is released it might be offered in limited numbers as it might be for a niche market. If it's packed with batteries it's going to be incredibly heavy to carry which might limit it's versatility even though the larger tire might appeal more to EU and American markets for off-roading or longer distance cruising. I think it's good though that they are trying new things, but I think they would be wise to refine their current stable of products first to increase safety and reliability before adding another wheel to support and troubleshoot. Building the name as a reliable and well supported brand should be a priority rather than diluting the product range too much. Then again it might not cost a huge amount to commission a new shell design to make it larger. The motor might be one that MW has already available for other applications, and maybe a customized variant of their 40A controller board could be used. Breaking things down to elemental pricing in China, and I'd bet there is a very healthy margin on these when selling abroad. We'll have to see how well they price this new unit to maximize sales if it hits mass distribution after it's testing phase. Judging by how well their ACM and V3 lines appear to be selling this MsuperDD will definitely have buyers for it too. KingSong looks to be trailing behind a little... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 9:13 PM, Cloud said: why no mudflap? If you dont know the answer, i could probably answer that for you For over $1,000 they don't care enough to provide a mudflap. Who cares if the customer's pants are muddy? If the customer doesn't want muddy pants, let the customer figure out how to add a mudflap. If you know the answer to this mystery, I would be very interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 @MaxLinux i think you pretty much answered the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 In China, there is no mud! They got rid of it since it made people's pants too dirty! That explains everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 23 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: In China, there is no mud! They got rid of it since it made people's pants too dirty! That explains everything! In New Zealand, we took a much more pragmatic approach... ALL clothing is mud coloured! So it doesn't matter whether you're muddy or not - no one knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citi Wheel Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/22/2016 at 11:30 AM, ELECTROWAY said: Today I tested it. I think this wheel is best for outdoor riding. Soon I make video for my channel on YouTube Is your YouTube channel electroway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 5 hours ago, MaxLinux said: For over $1,000 they don't care enough to provide a mudflap. Who cares if the customer's pants are muddy? If the customer doesn't want muddy pants, let the customer figure out how to add a mudflap. If you know the answer to this mystery, I would be very interested. For the sake of this post I assume that you are indeed genuinely interested in an answer. I don't know the answer (obviously), but I see many obvious answers/reasons. Let's start with the most obvious: most of the $1000 are not used to develop or build the wheel. It seems safe to assume that the resources of Gotway are quite limited. That makes it a pretty reasonable plan to put the development of (optional) mud guards low in the priority list of todos. Many users don't need them. Many users are happy to fit them themselves and it's a simple thing to do for most users (say, compared to adding a useful feature to the app or improving end quality control). It is quite unlikely that missing mud guards are a relevant aspect for decision making to buy a wheel. The MSuper has by design uncovered tires, that is, mud guards might not be considered as part of its design concept. Maybe, mud guards are not even on any todo list at Gotway, because nobody at Gotway cares to have them or thought about them or such thought has not been communicated. FTR, I personally find mud guards utterly useful and always fit them myself where they are needed and don't mind at all when I need to do this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Maybe they are thinking more "mountain bike" than "Citi bike" (Google for photos you lazy bums). Mountain bikes don't have any, but for a typical city user it's nicer to have an easily attached one from the get go from the factory in the design. Just like integrated headlights and rear lights and reflectors.... Nicer to have without needing to ghetto it up afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I find mud guards much easier to fit myself than light, or even reflectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 7 hours ago, MoNo said: For the sake of this post I assume that you are indeed genuinely interested in an answer. I don't know the answer (obviously), but I see many obvious answers/reasons. Let's start with the most obvious: most of the $1000 are not used to develop or build the wheel. It seems safe to assume that the resources of Gotway are quite limited. That makes it a pretty reasonable plan to put the development of (optional) mud guards low in the priority list of todos. Many users don't need them. Many users are happy to fit them themselves and it's a simple thing to do for most users (say, compared to adding a useful feature to the app or improving end quality control). It is quite unlikely that missing mud guards are a relevant aspect for decision making to buy a wheel. The MSuper has by design uncovered tires, that is, mud guards might not be considered as part of its design concept. Maybe, mud guards are not even on any todo list at Gotway, because nobody at Gotway cares to have them or thought about them or such thought has not been communicated. FTR, I personally find mud guards utterly useful and always fit them myself where they are needed and don't mind at all when I need to do this myself. I think all EUC companies have limited resources in engineering and also limited/ no resources in product marketing. Could any company tell us the revenue of each model or what's the spending in R&D? The price tag when the product arrives at the customer has some additional costs for shipping and margin of the sales channel. The customer only look on his final price tag and not on the unknown price tag when the product leaves the assembly at the EUC manufacturer. The EUC are lean developed. As the margin is low there's no room for higher skilled product/ marketing managers to define a strategy to get out of this loop. I've missing some skills/ resources an economical driven company normally use to grow and survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 6 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Maybe they are thinking more "mountain bike" than "Citi bike" (Google for photos you lazy bums). Mountain bikes don't have any, but for a typical city user it's nicer to have an easily attached one fom the get go from the factory in the design. Just like integrated headlights and rear lights and reflectors.... Nicer to have without needing to ghetto it up afterwards. Mountain Bike http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Mountain+Bike City Bike http://lmgtfy.com/?q=City+Bike Your welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 6 hours ago, OliverH said: As the margin is low [...] Could you be more specific? What is the margin for the producer on an EUC with $1000 end consumer price tag in EU/US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 2 hours ago, MoNo said: Could you be more specific? What is the margin for the producer on an EUC with $1000 end consumer price tag in EU/US? i can give you just an example for a KS16... Ks16 680wh bought brandnew in Thailand = 800dollar(and even the Thai seller made a good profit, so price in china even lower!) Ks16 680wh bought brandnew in Europe(france or germany) = 1550dollar so you can not see the producer margin, but you can see the EUCs are very cheap in Asia, even more in china! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 This I knew already. This is why I was sure that most of the $1000 US price tag does not go intro the producers pocket, let alone is the producers margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 28 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: i can give you just an example for a KS16... Ks16 680wh bought brandnew in Thailand = 800dollar(and even the Thai seller made a good profit, so price in china even lower!) Ks16 680wh bought brandnew in Europe(france or germany) = 1550dollar so you can not see the producer margin, but you can see the EUCs are very cheap in Asia, even more in china! in the US.... $1,375.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Let's take a cursory look at some pricing, and keep in mind it's not even wholesale pricing to factories... https://microworks.en.alibaba.com/productlist.html In USD, an 18 inch motor goes for about $70 US, controller about $45, tire + inner tube $17, battery $128, charger $13, pedals $33, pedal supports (guessing) $30, shell (guessing) $50. Total is $386 which surprisingly is similar to their assembled price of their GW wheel. Wow that's freaky... I honestly just added up the parts and guessed at the last few. Now that doesn't factor in assembly costs / shipping costs plus factories likely get quantity discounts. Add in other overhead costs (rent, power, taxes, etc) as well. When you subtract $386 from a selling price of $1500 say, you get $1114 to cover profit and overhead which is a pretty healthy margin I would think as overhead costs in China, the manufacturing giant with 2.275 trillion dollars of exports, likely has pretty low costs of doing business as compared to some other countries. With wholesale pricing, that margin goes up even more! Keep in mind this example is taking into account that one buys from a reseller so the factory probably sells them in quantities for closer to $800 I'm guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 56 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said: in the US.... $1,375.00 This price is based on shipping, freight insurance, taxes, custom fees and margin of the sales channel. If you receive the EUC by flight from the dealer this will be much more expensive than by ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, OliverH said: This price is based on shipping, freight insurance, taxes, custom fees and margin of the sales channel. If you receive the EUC by flight from the dealer this will be much more expensive than by ship. that makes sense to me thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 4 hours ago, MoNo said: Could you be more specific? What is the margin for the producer on an EUC with $1000 end consumer price tag in EU/US? I received some month ago an offer on Alibaba from Sales of well known manufacturer. I'll not share the price here as I got it accidentally. But the price was so low for this 14" (older model) that I can't believe that there anyone had a margin. Maybe low because of buffer clearance. Look at the listing/ calculation from @HunkaHunkaBurningLove and you can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Are you sure that this calculation was based on prices for which producers in China buy the single components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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