Points on driving licence for riding euc

[Tilmann]

3 minutes ago, Smoother said:

marmite is an acquired taste. I'm sensing you haven't acquired it.  You need marmite training.  It has to be spread veryyy thin.  When I'm spinning through Germany I'll come EUCing with you and we'll have a good  marmite session.  You'll love it.?

Dear @Smoother, love to see, ride & dine with you - if we can just leave out this culinary weapon of mass destruction called Marmite . The detail you overlooked with the acquired taste thing is, that Marmite training has to be applied at the earliest age, BEFORE the trainee has the faintest chance for defense.

[Cerbera]

21 minutes ago, Smoother said:

It sounds like you are saying that these places are legal, but our Welsh dude was EUCing on the pavement.  I'm confused. Are you just less likely to get "hassled by the man" if you stay off the public highway?

Whilst the law is frustratingly black and white - if EUC's are not allowed except on private land, then they are not allowed anywhere else. But using cycleways I would think that the case you could make for your defence is rather stronger if you were riding in sensible places at sensible speeds, with due consideration for other cycleway / pathway users. Whereas if you are caught bombing down a public road on an EUC among cars and other traffic - that really is pretty indefensible. 

[Juggler]

Interesting reading here, but not good news!!

http://www.electricunicycleguide.com/electric-unicycles-and-the-law/

 

[nute]

@Smoother I have no idea of the legal situation on Brighton seafront but the 3-4 times I've been there I've been very careful not to annoy anyone and have mostly stuck to the cycle path. Ive not been stopped either there or nearer home and have gone past plenty of cops. They seem more curious than anything else. 

Ref Marmite, yes it is an acquired taste but the more you eat the thicker you need to spread it to get the same effect. I get through one of those massive bulk jars every few weeks. Yummmmmmm.....  think i might need to go make some toast ...

[Keith]

4 hours ago, Smoother said:

Thanks guys.  You mention cycle paths, pavements, the sea front at Brighton, etc.  It sounds like you are saying that these places are legal,

No absolutely not, just unlikely to attract attention.

The law (and I beleive the only law) being quoted against Hoverboards when they were high profile last year was Section 72 of the 1835 highways act: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Act_1835. The first thing to note is there was no such thing as a motor vehicle then. The 'fine' that breaking that rule incurs is a £30 civil (i.e. Not motoring) penalty, so wasn't a really big concern. Riding in the road <should> have been the action that might have created a motoring offence (IMHO)

Almost certainly (but it is a read between the lines assumption) there was damage (or perceived damage) to the car and the rider behaved stupidly but it still sets a very nasty and excessive precedent that we could have done without. Using a leash to prevent the wheel flying off might well have stopped it happening-again IMHO! ?)

[Smoother]

@Tilmann so what you're saying is that forcing weak defenceless children to eat marmite is a form of child abuse, a sort of brain washing?  Now I get it . I knew I was abused somewhere back there.  And all this time I thought it had something to do with a priest.  MARMITE. I get it now. @nute put some toast on for me, it's marmite time !!!?

[Cerbera]

Just now, Smoother said:

@Tilmann so what you're saying is that forcing weak defenceless children to eat marmite is a form of child abuse, a sort of brain washing?  Now I get it . I knew I was abused somewhere back there.  And all this time I thought it had something to do with a priest.  MARMITE. I get it now. @nute put some toast on for me, it's marmite time !!!?

I don't know why any of you are buggering about with marmite when there's nutella.

[Smoother]

@Cerbera yes, low profile is the key. Kinda hard to be low profile when gliding around on a euc, but cycle paths better than high street on a Saturday morning, or hard shoulder of the M4 motorway m sorta begs the question; should we or shouldn't we try to grow our local EUC community.  The more wheels the higher the profile and the higher the chance of someone throwing their EUC into the side of a car and the cops being called.

and, no.  Never could get into chocolate and hazelnut  spreads even though I like both. ?

@Juggler yes very interesting reading and depressing, terminated at birth so to speak.  Some good links in that article too.  I especially liked the interview with ninebot about why they bought Segway.

@Keith using a leash.  I have been pondering this one myself.  I use a leash currently because I'm still learning and just when everything seems great, I loose it and have to jump off. My leash has kept my wheel upright,  close by and under control many many times. I have had several cop cars cruise by me here in Spain but none have bothered me.  My (longer that stock) leash is bright red and easy to see. I'd like to think that the presence and conspicuous use of a leash might dissuade a curios copper from messing with us.  I know you experienced types look down on a leash as some sort of sporn of the devil.  But if given the choice between "unleashed, harassed and prosecuted " , and " leashed, and left in peace". I know what I'd choose.

[Knoxious]

Had my first police stop on Saturday in central London. 

I was cruising along the bike path on Embankment, went up to Balckfirars Bridge and a motorbike cop pulled up and stopped me. 

 

He said:

*EUC is a motor vehicle in the eyes of the law.

*I will need insurance to ride it. 

*London Met are not cracking down on these at the moment, but they will soon.

*"It's a shame as you look really good at it." 

 

Real bum, though happy to have got away with it!

[Smoother]

There goes the neighbourhood.  There goes our sport/hobby/green transport.  Pretty soon we'll  only be safe wheeling in our own back yards.  Not much fun in that, after the first 300 laps!  I know some wheels can go off road, but where I wanted to use mine back in Blighty was to and from home, shops, my rental properties, my dads house and my brothers house, all within a mile, and no "off road" in sight.  Either off road or we'll have to skulk around on side roads always looking over our shoulders for the fuzz. And since ALL my sights are on main roads, and the police station is right there too, that will prove to be difficult. This is all going horribly wrong in the UK.

 Is it possible we could persuade an insurance company to put an EUC policy together, regardless of no VIN, not certified as road vehicle, no operating license available, and all the other reasons we currently can't get insurance?

 

[Smoother]

Never mind. Segway tried passing legislation to get the Segway classified as a epamd electronic personal assistance mobility device ( or something Mike that). No dice in most places. if they failed, we have no chance.

[Cerbera]

It's a crying shame that these people seem to have forgotten their remit. It is their job is to take the things that people want to do, and to find ways to enable them safely, not to immediately ban it and devise laws to prosecute the people taking part. Appallingly lazy conduct by the authorities concerned.

[WARPed1701D]

 It's been 7 months since this discussion was active i was wondering how all the original posters were still fairing with using their EUCs in the UK.

[Scully]

I ride all the time, I even (voluntarily) stopped to have a chat with a police officer yesterday. 

So long as you ride with caution and sensibly - nobody seems to mind.

[Alexoneill852]

Today I am ANGRY at the Hong Kong Government especially the Hong Kong Police Force.

I moved to Kwun Tong District the beginning of last year, and due to doing alot of overseas sales my working hours are very different from the majority of the population here. I usually start work around 8pm and finish work around 4pm to head home.

I don't live far away only at Yau Tong, up until the beginning of last year I had never heard or seen EUC. But 1 night about a year ago I finished up work and went down to get the normal $40 to $50 cab ride home. Whilst I was awaiting a taxi at about 4am when there was no one on the streets except for me, and barely any cars hence the fact I usually had to wait 5 to 10 mins to get a cab that was available, a group of happy, nice and friendly EUC users came around the corner. All of them had met from EUC community and they were all fully into there passion for the EUC. As they passed by they slowed down to respect that I was near to them, they all said hello good morning as they passed by, in such a friendly way you don't see anywhere these days, I obviously looked surprised and wowwed by these futuristic machines, mentally thinking they must be amazing balancers or is it magic trick or what. So I spoke up and said hey what is that?

They slowed to an easy halt so gracefully and turned to engage in a foreign language to they were used to putting alot of effort or just being genuine nice kind heart friendly people.

They took it in turns to explain all with so much passion.  I asked if it was hard to rude, 1 of them said have a go and held my hand and supported me as I tried to get up on one. I found a little balance quite quickly but was a bit uneasy to the new life changing experience yet full of curiosity.

I asked how long it took them to learn to ride, apparently only 1 to 2 days. 

I asked them where and how much the wheel cost and what powered it.

answer was Hong Kong about 1k to 5k depending on model etc, all run only electricity.

in my head I thought wow I should get 1, I already at that point spend 1500 to much on taxi each day to get home over a month. And for me money is quite tight. 

The other factor was the community of people were so nice and I don't have much communication or life outside of work as I operate on different hours. 

I pondered the idea over about 6 months because to me it was a big investment if I wasn't going to use it each day to get home.

All the while I had no thinking it was illegal.

I had started to see them being sold in quite a few places around Hong Kong by October and that's when I went for it.

I had saved up 3k over a few months and decided to get a second hand better model. But I got it.

I was so excited I messaged those guys group on whatsapp that I had added so many months before.

They all replied welcoming me to the EUC world, they sent me Google maps location and I met them and they slowly gave me confidence to get balance and become able to use it. within about 2 hours I was wheeling alongside them and able to keep up.

It gave me an empowering sense of freedom.

No longer would I have to spend for taxi and sit in taxi not socially enjoying conversation but awkwardly in the back seat when I finished work at 4am each day.

Now I could cruise along quiet roads and back lanes where there was no one ever at all. To get home now was something I enjoyed and looked forward to.

That was until last night. Last night I went down from my office about 2am to go circle k about 10 mins walk from my office to get some food as I had rushed to work and.not eaten before getting there. There was no one on the street whatsoever and I was on the sidewalk. suddenly from no where I was being shouted at by a megaphone from a police van. I looked around and as I am not chinese had no idea they were shouting at me. I looked around thinking someone else must have done something and continued to ride for under a minute more until the sirens were put on and suddenly a second police van came from other direction. I slowed and stopped as I wondered what the he'll was going on. only me and 2 fully active hyped up vans full of police. Had I been mistaken for something else that had happened I thought?

The police van doors opened and some mental police officers jump3d out looking like they were going to attack me they were so angry, demanding my ID card and pushing me against the wall. 

They started shouting at me in English over and over telling me they are police and saying I don't know they are police, shouting at me who am I think law doesn't apply to me. I was like huh? wtf is going on here? They took.my id card and checked it on radio. I still didn't know what was happening, so I asked I was told don't play with them I should know what I did. They told me I was being arrested for obstructing a police officer and for use of EUC.

2 hours later at station I was released on bail for $400hkd and my EUC was remained In station.

They said it is a motor vehicle and so illegal.

 

I AM FURIOUS NOW!!! 

[Marty Backe]

Wow, that's some story, and it makes me sad to read it   What was the wheel that they confiscated?

Is it really this bad for EUC riders in Hong Kong?

[kasenutty]

Quote

start work around 8pm and finish work around 4pm

 

 

20 hours a day is one hardworking man, man. 

[Vik's]

46 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

20 hours a day is one hardworking man, man. 

 4am was mentioned there, so must've been a typo... still 9 hours though...

[peterpeco]

I have just submitted a point of view on this very subject and I think that it is something that we ignore at our peril.

On Points for Riding an EUC without Liability Insurance in THE UK.

It seems to me that as the law stands the only tool that the police have is the lack of Liability Insurance. I think that if enough of us got together and approached an insurance company such a cover could be made worth their while.

I think that it would certainly be worth trying to pursue this course to all of our benefit.

peterpeco.

 

[nute]

I have tried to get insurance, spoken to several brokers but no luck. There just are not enough of us to make it worthwhile and there is no standard quality for these things so anyone wanting to offer insurance will be very cautious as they then don't know exactly what they are offering insurance on. The only ray of hope i have had is on persuading my house insurance provider to include what would effectively be public liability cover for it. Im awaiting further details but it will be better than nothing. 

[steve454]

Maybe this is not available in the UK, but Segway insurance seems to be available here.  Also mentioned is having a rider added to auto insurance policy, maybe some companies in the UK are open to personal transportation device insurance  .https://www.nationwide.com/segway-insurance-tips.jsp

[litewave]

On 2/23/2018 at 9:58 AM, Alexoneill852 said:

Today I am ANGRY at the Hong Kong Government especially the Hong Kong Police Force.

<snip>

The police van doors opened and some mental police officers jump3d out looking like they were going to attack me they were so angry, demanding my ID card and pushing me against the wall. 

They started shouting at me in English over and over telling me they are police and saying I don't know they are police, shouting at me who am I think law doesn't apply to me. I was like huh? wtf is going on here? They took.my id card and checked it on radio. I still didn't know what was happening, so I asked I was told don't play with them I should know what I did. They told me I was being arrested for obstructing a police officer and for use of EUC.

2 hours later at station I was released on bail for $400hkd and my EUC was remained In station.

They said it is a motor vehicle and so illegal.

I AM FURIOUS NOW!!! 

Wow, maybe we need to start a worldwide legal defence fund. Still, I wonder if they are always like this in Hong Kong; were they trying to make an example of you; or was there some threat issue or other event going on (possible invasion from the mainland) that caused their sphincters to tighten?

I stil think the best way to pre-empt reactionary responses is to entice and welcome our neighbors, communities and law enforcement to our side.

When that fails, move.

[Rehab1]

57 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Maybe this is not available in the UK, but Segway insurance seems to be available here.  Also mentioned is having a rider added to auto insurance policy, maybe some companies in the UK are open to personal transportation device insurance  .https://www.nationwide.com/segway-insurance-tips.jsp

Great research Steve! I pulled up Nationwide and it appears Segway coverage is still listed. The barrier I believe will be bridging a policy between a two wheeled Segway to a one wheeled EUC. I plan to contact them. 

[steve454]

4 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

The barrier I believe will be bridging a policy between a two wheeled Segway to a one wheeled EUC

Yeah, the two wheeled Segways have redundant motherboards and batteries.  Supposedly they can't cutoff suddenly and faceplant someone, at least the first time.  What would be insurable is a two wheel EUC, one in front of the other, with no seat of handlebars, steered by the same method as a one wheel EUC. by weight shifting and leaning.

[Rehab1]

4 hours ago, steve454 said:

Yeah, the two wheeled Segways have redundant motherboards and batteries.  Supposedly they can't cutoff suddenly and faceplant someone, at least the first time.  What would be insurable is a two wheel EUC, one in front of the other, with no seat of handlebars, steered by the same method as a one wheel EUC. by weight shifting and leaning.

Who knows. I’m sure the volume of interested members may be the impetus for any insurance  to take a hard look at including the EUCs in there portfolio. I just looked up Progressive Insurance and they have Segway coverage as well. With the name ‘Progressive’  they have to be open minded to change. 

Just look at their opening statement:  “Cruise Sidewalks, roads, paths, or whatever else you take on your Segway with the same protection you have in your car..”

Being they’ve have such low rates I already have Progressive Insurance for my motorcycle.  I’ll see today just how Progressive they actually are. 

 

 

Edit:

I just tried to enter the info online. Under ‘Model’ I was hoping there would be an ‘ Other’ option instead of listing the Segway’s specific models. No such luck. I could not proceed any further. Suppose a direct phone call is the answer.