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is euc growth dying?


John Eucist

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1 hour ago, John Eucist said:

http://www.acronymfinder.com/EUC.html

Electric Unicycle isn't even in that list.  And on eBay it means "excellent used condition" supposedly.  Imagine while selling a second hand euc and posting "euc euc". :P  Anyways, if it were called EU I think it would be even worse.

UPDATE: I just submitted Electric Unicycle to that acronymfinder.com list along with citations, links, and remark.  They said it would be added if approved in a few days.  Let's give it a chance and wait and see.  If it doesn't get added then I'll make a new topic with the link and ask everyone to submit. :) 

UPDATE 2: Hey look at this other acronym/abbreviation site!  It's in there already!  http://www.abbreviations.com/term/1795731

I would think that EUC is not and will not become the term most commonly used to name an electric unicycle in the outside world (outside of this forum). I can't even guess what the term will be and I am sure it will depend on the country as well. In German and French, my best bets would be Wheel and (gyro)roue.

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1 hour ago, MoNo said:

I would think that EUC is not and will not become the term most commonly used to name an electric unicycle in the outside world (outside of this forum). I can't even guess what the term will be and I am sure it will depend on the country as well. In German and French, my best bets would be Wheel and (gyro)roue.

Yep.  Whatever it will be wherever will be whatever it will be wherever. :) 
However I can only hope it will not end up being a company or trademarked brand name like Kleenex or Band Aid.  That would mean only one company dominating the entire market.  Solowheel had it for a while, then Airwheel for a while.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/56667/41-brand-names-people-use-generic-terms

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53 minutes ago, John Eucist said:

However I can only hope it will not end up being a company or trademarked brand name like Kleenex or Band Aid.  That would mean only one company dominating the entire market.

There are counterexamples to this rule though. Monowheels wouldn't make a bad name IMHO despite that it has been used for a different concept before and is taken by a company making EUCs.

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On 10/15/2016 at 11:42 AM, John Eucist said:

https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q="electric unicycle"

I understand this "trend" is only based on English-speaking Google searches but still.
Any idea what caused the quick rise mid-2015 and then the fall back down?

euctrend.png

I just got off of Skype with a friend of mine from Harbin, and we were talking about the popularity of EUC's in China.  He said the main consumer group is older men, and they are very popular.   They ride their EUC's around in the public parks (in Changchun, I saw masses of people riding) and then perhaps go to a restaurant for a bite and a brew.  There is even a 代驾 service that takes the rider and their EUC home when they are too drunk to balance.  

The most popular units in China sell for ~$50-90.  I was surprised, because alibaba.com (the US site) only has units that start at $300 for an EUC. The Chinese Alibaba site is 1688.com (in spoken Chinese this is Yīliùbābā... get it ... Alibaba) ... here are some of their listings (figure 7 yuan per $1).  The prices seem to run from $80-300.  I'm sure I've seen some of these same units on eBay and Alibaba.com.

Screen Shot 2016-10-17 at 7.06.44 PM.png

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Screen Shot 2016-10-17 at 7.07.54 PM.png

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On 10/15/2016 at 0:42 PM, John Eucist said:

I understand this "trend" is only based on English-speaking Google searches but still.
Any idea what caused the quick rise mid-2015 and then the fall back down?

"The Amazing Race" featured the EUC in an episode in May but the jump seemed to happen earlier.

 

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On 10/15/2016 at 1:02 PM, FLASH said:

Yes it's true but only for some people and at a time intervall , when they wake up and realize time is wasted then they wan't to try something new , money is also a limit
to not try everything but euc doesn't have to be so expensive and going with euc trains every muscle and balance , it's not like playing pokemon or watching tv

It's not for people with weak nerves , when you have a good unit euc and you trust it then it's easier to relax and enjoy the ride , I always go 5-10 km/h slower than max speed
I value safe wheeling more than speed and I'm quite happy with 30-35 km/h

If every owner use it for everyday use to the shop , restaurant or whatever then people will notice it and get curious and starting to wan't one themself + all kids that want's one and parents say no in the beginning  , one of the thing I like the most except the ride is how cheap it is to use compared to my car , I have my backpack when I go to the supermarket , it's enough , with a solar panel charger then I won't need to pay for my journeys

Electric bicycles are an alternative but they have less mileage , smaller battery , weaker motor , slow speed and brand names like bosh Yamaha are extremly expensive ,
If I would put money in one then I would buy a mountain bike or I would like to have 1 more EUC maybe KS16 matte for visitors friends that want's to try

In regards electric bikes they can be very powerfull for example check out qs motor, chromotor, crystalite crown just to name a few. Good controllers allow up to 100v and 150A so definetly they are more powerfull, and the motor winding can be as you need since there are slow and fast winding motors available, they use more watts since they are heavier, but as far as power goes there are very powerfull bikes available, for example the b52 bomber bike. EUC will get there since they are severy lacking in torque and power, the market is concerned with speed hopefully that direction will change since it makes no sence to ride at 40km/h without any torque available.

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On 15 October 2016 at 9:02 PM, FLASH said:

Electric bicycles are an alternative but they have less mileage , smaller battery , weaker motor , slow speed and brand names like bosh Yamaha are extremly expensive ,

I agree with @checho electric bikes are capable, and sold, with higher power and greater range and there are a number of very good looking specification bikes coming out of China at good prices.

The trouble is the antiquated and narrow minded laws throughout Europe that declare anything greater than 250W sustained power and 25kph max powered speed to be a motorbike. It is really all the proof you need that no politician in Europe pays anything more than lip service to green energy particularly when you consider that a cyclist can produce 400W and even an average cyclist can do 35kph or more on the straight. Biggest crap of all is "it ain't legal without peddles" what a complete load of b&ll*ck$ that is!

Also when all is said and done, how practical is an electric bike or motorbike? It becomes a "poor mans transport" none of the comfort of a car and has to be used for the entire journey whatever the weather, none of the fitness and pleasure of using a bike for recreation, excessive safety gear if declared to be a motorbike. It forces people to choose the car if public transport does not get them to exactly where they need to go.

An EUC is, pretty much, the ideal last mile transport, it makes it totally practical to use public transport even when that will not actually get them to their destination, unlike a bike it is absolutely no hastle to carry on the bus or train, and allows them swiftly and conveniently to complete their journey. In practice, especially in built up areas it is also actually the fastest way to get from A to B. In London, for example, a journey by car is slower now than it was by horse and carriage in the 1880's.

However, none of this will ever reach popular consciousness and nothing will improve whilst politicians continue to criminalise anyone who dares to use something that does not meet their incredibly narrow minded idea what constitutes "transport".  

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1 hour ago, Keith said:

...politicians continue to criminalise anyone who dares to use something that does not meet their incredibly narrow minded idea what constitutes "transport".  

my thoughts exactly!

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5 hours ago, Keith said:

The trouble is the antiquated and narrow minded laws throughout Europe that declare anything greater than 250W sustained power and 25kph max powered speed to be a motorbike.

more precisely, it doesn't regard faster or more powerful e-bikes just as bicycles. That is, if you want to go faster than 25km/h on electric power, you will need insurance, but you don't need (necessarily) a motorbike drivers license; I believe you still don't need any license, I might be wrong though. I actually don't find much wrong with this (comparatively recent) law. The risks that speed impose on the environment don't change when it is delivered from electric power.

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5 hours ago, Keith said:

An EUC is, pretty much, the ideal last mile transport, it makes it totally practical to use public transport even when that will not actually get them to their destination

I agree 100%, but that doesn't make it wrong to legislate speed limits when using it without insurance and drivers license.

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7 minutes ago, MoNo said:

The risks that speed impose on the environment don't change when it is delivered from electric power.

No argument there and I'm sure many EUC riders would gladly insure their EUCs (if reasonable premiums were set). But what about "human" only powered bikes and other "contraptions" zooming in busy streets and bike lanes at speeds of 45 - 50 Km/h without any insurance or "persecution"?

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13 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

I just got off of Skype with a friend of mine from Harbin, and we were talking about the popularity of EUC's in China.  He said the main consumer group is older men, and they are very popular.   They ride their EUC's around in the public parks (in Changchun, I saw masses of people riding) and then perhaps go to a restaurant for a bite and a brew.  There is even a 代驾 service that takes the rider and their EUC home when they are too drunk to balance.  

The most popular units in China sell for ~$50-90.  I was surprised, because alibaba.com (the US site) only has units that start at $300 for an EUC. The Chinese Alibaba site is 1688.com (in spoken Chinese this is Yīliùbābā... get it ... Alibaba) ... here are some of their listings (figure 7 yuan per $1).  The prices seem to run from $80-300.  I'm sure I've seen some of these same units on eBay and Alibaba.com.

Not really surprised by that. The stuff we consider (relatively) "cheap" in places like Aliexpress is actually usually much cheaper to the locals (who buy it off from somewhere else, of course ;)). Looking up how come the sellers can offer free worldwise shipping for already very cheap stuff, I came upon this:

If you regularly shop online, you may have found some China seller out there supplying small items at the price of US $1~2 with worldwide free shipping services. Does this make sense? Do they still make profit? The fact is, China seller can make profit at most cases, at least not at a loss.

Let’s take an example to give you a clear idea. You shop on eBay, and find some jewelry or accessories shipping free with a low price. In this case, it’s US $1.98 per piece. You pay $1.98, wait for several days, and you will receive it at your doorstep. You may know Taobao.com, which is a Chinese C2C website. The price is low there, but we’ll provide another source 1688.com to check similar jewelries’ price in CNY. There are many kinds of small jewelries worth ¥0.64 per unit, that’s about $0.1. Wait a sec. It’s not the bottom line. The $0.1 is the price everyone can enjoy. If one has a close connection with a producer, he/she can get a better discount instead of the listed price on the website. They use China Post or Hong Kong Post to handle the delivery. This is the cheapest carrier but also the slowest. Hong Kong Post is even up to 50% less than China Post.

Reading more sources, the difference between the price the seller pays for the item and the buyer pays to the seller can usually be between 3 to 200 -fold (so the item itself costs around 0.5%-30% of the price you pay to the seller). Also, the post services have "package deals", like sending an unlimited amount of packages/envelopes to certain area (country and/or city) for a fixed price, as long as the total volume and weight don't cross certain boundaries (so for example you can send 1kg worth of letters, which for small & lightweight items might mean 100 letters) at very cheap prices. To me, that explains why it sometimes takes longer before the seller puts the stuff in delivery: they wait to get more orders into the same freight.

 

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11 minutes ago, HEC said:

But what about "human" only powered bikes and other "contraptions" zooming in busy streets and bike lanes at speeds of 45 - 50 Km/h without any insurance or "persecution"?

What is your point?

You think that speeding bicycles are an actual problem that needs to be addressed? 

You want to legislate and persecute a max speed for human powered vehicles?

You want to legislate mandatory insurance for bicycles? 

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3 minutes ago, MoNo said:

What is your point?

You think that speeding bicycles are an actual problem that needs to be addressed? 

You want to legislate and persecute a max speed for human powered vehicles?

You want to legislate mandatory insurance for bicycles? 

I've had recumbent bikes with glassfiber covers zip past me while pedaling >30km/h with bike or riding around 30km/h on the wheel... those things must be able to reach 50km/h or more depending on the rider strength and due to the cover being shaped to minimize air resistance yet weigh quite a lot. But I trust the riders know what they're doing.

The ones I've seen were kind of like this, only even slightly slimmer: 

strada-1.JPG

 

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32 minutes ago, MoNo said:

You want to legislate and persecute a max speed for human powered vehicles?

I'm sure in many counties there are already limits set for bikes and other "human" powered vehicles but they're rarely enforced (same like drink & drive laws). What irks me here is the "double standard" being applied to EUCs and bicycles ... The risks or consequences of being hit by high-speeding bicycle or EUC  are comparable (maybe even worse for bikes) so both should be treated more or less equally. The law always lacks behind advancement in both technology as well as how the real word situations are but at least they should not have large (dis-)advantages to one of the comparable groups.

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8 minutes ago, HEC said:

What irks me here is the "double standard" being applied to EUCs and bicycles

Shouldn't the question be how to write the law in the best way to make the right incentives? I don't even see a double standard, as most people cannot go fast with bicycles for very long, if at all. So it is a single standard: devices with which most people cannot go fast on most of them get a pass.  

16 minutes ago, HEC said:

I'm sure in many counties there are already limits set for bikes and other "human" powered vehicles

I am not aware of any country which has a speed limit on bicycles (while the given speed limit on the roads do apply to bicycles just as well).

35 minutes ago, HEC said:

I'm sure many EUC riders would gladly insure their EUCs

right, but I am pretty convinced that a mandatory insurance for EUCs would be a big obstacle for their dissemination. If we want the maximal the incentive to use EUCs in any age group, there should be no obligation for insurance, helmet, or drivers license. Then, I don't see any better way to mitigate the risk than to legislate max speed.

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6 hours ago, checho said:

In regards electric bikes they can be very powerfull for example check out qs motor, chromotor, crystalite crown just to name a few. Good controllers allow up to 100v and 150A so definetly they are more powerfull, and the motor winding can be as you need since there are slow and fast winding motors available, they use more watts since they are heavier, but as far as power goes there are very powerfull bikes available, for example the b52 bomber bike. EUC will get there since they are severy lacking in torque and power, the market is concerned with speed hopefully that direction will change since it makes no sence to ride at 40km/h without any torque available.

I've been curious about the particular motors used in EUC's.  The most interesting developments in small motors relate to the TT Zero and other motorcycle races, that use motors like the Briggs & Stratton Etek.  Victory, for example, started racing this year http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/20/victory-motorcycles-electric-bike-tt-zero/ and I believe has a commercial product planned.  This sort of high-torque application, along with the control and regenerative circuitry would help EUCs a lot.  I'm not sure if the price tag would be right, but it would certainly make sense to piggyback on the technology from a wealthier market. 

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7 minutes ago, MoNo said:

I don't even see a double standard, as most people cannot go fast with bicycles for very long, if at all. So it is a single standard: devices with which most people cannot go fast on most of them get a pass.

You forgot gravity (aka downhill). :P 

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2 hours ago, MoNo said:

That is, if you want to go faster than 25km/h on electric power, you will need insurance, but you don't need (necessarily) a motorbike drivers license; I believe you still don't need any license,

Nope, certainly not in the UK: anything with over 250W power OR can be driven even 1kph faster than 25kph OR does not have peddles capable of powering it, becomes a motorbike, must be type approved, registered, insured, taxed, the driver licensed, is not allowed anywhere except roads, I.e. No bridleways, cycle paths, forest paths, Full motorcycle helmet must be worn, etc. Etc.

Not sure about the rest of Europe but it sounds like Germany at least is very similar.

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6 hours ago, Vik's said:

my thoughts exactly!

Narrow minded, not at all  I think: if they say no what's the amount of work to manage a non new situation?

However if they say yes there is a new situation that shall be manage imo work must be done? ;) 

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Your points are well taken esaj.   I spend about 3 months each year in China, and I actually think there are more fundamental problems with ordering in China.  Alibaba (1688.com) in China is not like Amazon ... it's caveat emptor, and there is a lot of substandard quality on TMall, Alibaba, etc.; it's hard to return stuff, and the fakes are rampant.  Logistics are a nightmare.   I could conceivably buy in China and ship to the US, but it's easier said than done (and it's not a matter of language either).   The corporations like IPS that do business in the US spend a lot of time building reliable logistics and relationships in the US and Europe.  We may pay a premium for their headaches, but we get Western standards of quality assurance and service as well.  Things are getting better and better in China, and Jack Ma's businesses have helped a lot; but they are not there yet.  

There's no free lunch; and if there were, the arbitragers would eat it.;)

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3 hours ago, Keith said:

Not sure about the rest of Europe but it sounds like Germany at least is very similar.

Apparently not quite, as in Germany an electric bicycle with >25km/h doesn't need to be registered (only needs insurance) and can be driven from the age of 16 with a license which is comparatively easy to get.^1 No comparison to an (unlimited) motorbike, for which one needs to be 24 years old or have 2 years of driving experience to acquire the license.

 

^1 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinkraftrad

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3 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

Your points are well taken esaj.   I spend about 3 months each year in China, and I actually think there are more fundamental problems with ordering in China.  Alibaba (1688.com) in China is not like Amazon ... it's caveat emptor, and there is a lot of substandard quality on TMall, Alibaba, etc.; it's hard to return stuff, and the fakes are rampant.  Logistics are a nightmare.   I could conceivably buy in China and ship to the US, but it's easier said than done (and it's not a matter of language either).   The corporations like IPS that do business in the US spend a lot of time building reliable logistics and relationships in the US and Europe.  We may pay a premium for their headaches, but we get Western standards of quality assurance and service as well.  Things are getting better and better in China, and Jack Ma's businesses have helped a lot; but they are not there yet.  

There's no free lunch; and if there were, the arbitragers would eat it.;)

For EUCs, I'd get mine from Europe (warranty, shipping, avoiding customs hassle etc.)...   I was speaking in more generally, as I order a lot of small and cheap stuff (electronics components, wires, small motors, and I mean really small, nothing like EUC-size, milling bits, small encasings and such) from Aliexpress. For anything more pricey, heavy or requiring precisely a certain component from a trustworthy source (like high-resolution DAC or some special chips) I'd go for European dealers. But for basic components, modules, Arduinos and such, Aliexpress has been great (even though probably those could be got at even cheaper if you had "connections"). Nothing that weights much more than 100 grams or takes up a lot of space in freight never has free shipping, but most of my stuff comes in envelopes or very small cardboard boxes...

So far, I haven't received any components I could say for sure are fakes, but I do have my doubts about some power-mosfets and some of the components have marks that make me think they might be salvaged from some scrap :D But as long as it works, who cares? ;)  Had I bought everything I've ordered within the last year domestically, it would have cost me thousands of euros.

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Fully agree on the small stuff esaj.   I'm an Arduino enthusiast, and the Chinese clones are 1/10 the price, and good quality.  I'm not diminishing China; they have my great respect, as I have watched them evolve since my first trip in 1992.  But when you are buying inside China, the quality isn't nearly as reliable as it is if you buy overseas, from English language sites.  

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