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is euc growth dying?


John Eucist

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4 minutes ago, John Eucist said:

I don't understand why all the hate on the V8 handle by almost everyone.  Looks like I'm the only one that think it's "just fine".

at least folks like me (LEFT HANDED) can use it as well

as opposed to the KS16 diagonally-placed handle which might be more sturdy but UNUSABLE by someone of my HANDEDNESS (when LIFTING the wheel up a flight of stairs, etc)

WHAT were they thinking?

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10 minutes ago, HEC said:

I believe @Jason McNeil is already "lobbying" IM for a "V8+" model with 60 cells and external handle (à la V5) which would then have 720Wh and almost the same range as KS-16 (due slightly better efficiency).

that makes me VERY happy

i hope they listen to jason

the wheel can be a bit wider and HOUSE that extra battery capacity

crazy the V8 wasn't ALREADY THIS WHEEL

let the V5 (in whatever iteration they want) be their lower-battery capacity and therefore lighter wheel

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3 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

i spend more time (or almost all of my time) in Leisure riding

and..... at 85KG.... NUDE.... LOL... battery power is important to ME, personally

Please tell me you don't go riding around at 85kg exactly.

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3 hours ago, MoNo said:

Interesting, does that mean that you do swap battery during a trip with the V8? 

Not yet / regularly but I've had a friend visiting over the weekend with another V8 so we’ve played “Show me yours and I’ll show you mine” … As we’ve wanted to ride my usual leisure trail which is over 50 Km and with some inclines as well we’ve decide to take my KS-16 instead and dig up battery from my V8 to use it for a swap half way. As I’ve pulled my battery already twice from my V8 I know how major PITA is it, both with removing the outer shell cover as well as pulling out the actual battery as there is nothing to grip it by when wheel lies on its side we’ve decided to make it easier to swap “in field”. We’ve removed all the screws (from cover and battery) and squeezed the battery in the V8 compartment with two Velcro strips looped around it which then acted as both “hold in place” layer as well as “removal” help. The side cover was then put back on but not fully twisted back and secured by tape on sides. As that was preventing the small flap below pedals to clip back in the flap was removed for this ride. We’ve took also a sheet of foam to which we can put V8 on ground during battery swap. With this preparation despite the cold weather we’ve managed to swap the battery in about 45 seconds. I was carrying the “spare” battery (wrapped in the foam sheet) in my backpack and it’s not the weight but its odd shape and dangling leads with 4 small triangular tips (used to secure the battery into the shell sticking out) making this unpleasant venture. It would probably benefit from some “batman” utility belt designed specifically for this pack to carry around. One BIG surprise was that both packs were not exactly same! While mine had 4 small fixing “wings” my friend’s had only two! Wheels are identical (both have 4 fixing points) but one battery have four and one only two fixing points. Both have 2 + 2 + 5 cabling. I’m preparing (well overdue) longer write-up in the main V8 thread about this adventure as well as “”swappable”” (single quotes are simply not enough here :P) of V8 in general.

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37 minutes ago, John Eucist said:

I don't understand why all the hate on the V8 handle (I'm assuming you mean the trolley) by almost everyone.  Looks like I'm the only one that think it's "just fine".

It has nothing to do with the hate. I actually love the integrated trolley handle in V8. The idea was though that spaced used by internal trolley handle could have been used for extra 20 cells and handle will be then external instead (like on V5). Even with it's current design there is plenty of free / hollow space in V8 so maybe if IM would drop the "swappable" battery design entirely they might be able to squeeze in 60 cells and still keep internal trolley handle.

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1 hour ago, HEC said:

It has nothing to do with the hate. I actually love the integrated trolley handle in V8. The idea was though that spaced used by internal trolley handle could have been used for extra 20 cells and handle will be then external instead (like on V5). Even with it's current design there is plenty of free / hollow space in V8 so maybe if IM would drop the "swappable" battery design entirely they might be able to squeeze in 60 cells and still keep internal trolley handle.

OIC.  That makes sense.  I thought people were complaining about it being flimsy or something.

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23 hours ago, MoNo said:

Can you be more specific? How can they be drastically improved and what are the obstacles that this hasn't been done so far? 

Geared motor is the easiest option but they don't want to pay for new gearboxes. Chinese ebike gearing is not strong enough.

Adjust motor geometry, larger stator with more smaller teeth and magnets, again new stator design = nope.

There's about 10 other options anyone with a factory can make to drastically improve performance.

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4 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I didn't notice anything.  I would be concerned about the unsupported areas,  and landing too hard on them might warp the wheel.  I guess the rim has to be super tough to resist deformation.

I think this is another problem with hubless wheels.  Spokes in bike or Ferris wheels, allow a very light ring that can be fine tuned by lengthening or shortening spokes (usually through some sort of turnbuckle).  A hubless wheel needs more strength, and I imagine if it is damaged, it is very difficult to "true" the wheel. 

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5 hours ago, Greg Spalding said:

at least folks like me (LEFT HANDED) can use it as well

as opposed to the KS16 diagonally-placed handle which might be more sturdy but UNUSABLE by someone of my HANDEDNESS (when LIFTING the wheel up a flight of stairs, etc)

WHAT were they thinking?

I haven't even a clue which hand I am supposed to use for lifting my wheel. It's not like writing, which I do have a hard time to do with both hands. 

EDIT: BTW, on which side one can carry the KS16 and on which side one can't and what is the problem (I know how the handle looks like, but I can't figure the specific consequences which make it unpleasant to carry on one side but not on the other)? 

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1 hour ago, Chris Westland said:

I think this is another problem with hubless wheels.  Spokes in bike or Ferris wheels, allow a very light ring that can be fine tuned by lengthening or shortening spokes (usually through some sort of turnbuckle).  A hubless wheel needs more strength, and I imagine if it is damaged, it is very difficult to "true" the wheel. 

"spokeless" wheels are sort-of standard technology, on motorcycles they have become quite frequent, on bicycles it is, I guess, the price tag which is rather prohibitive for a light and robust version of them. 

obree01.jpg

tri_bike.jpg

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4 hours ago, MoNo said:

When it comes to battery development, buying EUCs is very unlikely to have any visible effect at all any time soon. The progression of battery technology will not be driven by EUC sells any time soon, because the markets for mobil phones, electric cars, and electric bikes will remain way larger for quite some time. That is actually good news, because we get the battery R&D for free. 

Yes. this is how science and engineering works - is to built on top of other's discovery.  But still it won't be free as different applications, different power output, different working environment, etc will require a different focus.  The euc manufactuer still need to get all the R&D efforts from other applications and fine tune it to their needs.  For example, just reading others' engineering paper will require at least to hire some brains to do, and this will not be free.  An absolutely important battery technology for euc to improve safety is to predict when the battery will fail, and this might not be the main focus for other applications.  But we are not talking about large scale investment on super high end battery, but maybe just some good engineering effort to generate a more accurate battery model, and put it in their firmware.  Or if they finally prove that it is impossible to generate an accurate battery model, be able to design the ultra-capacitor onto the electronics.  Finally they need to hire some maketing people to let the world know how safe is their eucs compared to others.  All these are not free, but it is also not a multi-billion dollar investment.  It is of course a chicken and egg situation.

 

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1 hour ago, MoNo said:

"spokeless" wheels are sort-of standard technology, on motorcycles they have become quite frequent, on bicycles it is, I guess, the price tag which is rather prohibitive for a light and robust version of them. 

obree01.jpg

tri_bike.jpg

These are pretty expensive wheels because replacing the spokes (which form the rim by pulling on it) with struts that maintain the rim by pushing at just a few places (or all over for discs) adds more weight than strength (but lowers potential maintenance).  You need carbon fiber composites if the wheel is not to be too heavy.

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Is our planet dying ? , will EUC help saving our planet ? is euc fun ? is euc something new ?    ,   answer is yes , yes , yes , yes

EUC is an excellent alternative to cars SUVs , it will give us cleaner air , better health and stop global warming

If you for some unknown reason don't like it or are to afraid to learn then buy an electric bicycle or 3 ton SUV  , Vaz Lada Honec 1800cc  :)

Be my world

The Prophet

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5 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

These are pretty expensive wheels because replacing the spokes (which form the rim by pulling on it) with struts that maintain the rim by pushing at just a few places (or all over for discs) adds more weight than strength (but lowers potential maintenance).  You need carbon fiber composites if the wheel is not to be too heavy.

Right, classical spokes are pretty damn good, but they are not unavoidable to build a reasonably useful wheel even for bicycles, let alone for EUCs. A cheap example (without carbon) for a BMX can be seen here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_wheel#Mountain_bike_wheels

These wheels tend to be cheaper than the classical spokes wheels, but also heavier and (probably) less robust. Still, they have been sold as mass products to a mass market.

Wikipedia: A wheel can be formed in one piece from a material such as thermoplastic (glass-filled nylon in this case), carbon fiber or aluminium alloy. Thermoplastic is commonly used for inexpensive BMX wheels. They have a low maximum tire pressure of 45 psi (3bars or atmospheres).[28] Carbon fiber is typically used for high-end aerodynamic racing wheels. 

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