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Want more range for your NINEBOT MINI? one problem but many solutions


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Here is set up....

1) solar input 12 v panels (more like 20v)

2) go-to charging input to external battery, or I can go to mini charging port - pro 60 v, Asian mini 64 v limited (hopefully) 1.5 - 2 a

3) output to power meter

4) going to charging port. I have a switch with a 40 ohm resistor across it to stop sparking...still don't know how to limit current for under 2 a, but the bms should handle that anyways...

I could have went directly to internal battery if I had ran wires from it...

The meter can be placed in 1 or 2 also...

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Edited by MetricUSA
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2 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

OK been awhile, first a solution to internal blown fuse... And I should had run wire to parallel the internal battery while I had it open. The only good spot to run it out is where the fuse now sits....

And now I need help for a hitch, the strap is not cutting it, good for back up, but definitely need a hitch... Seriously, a 50 watt (or two) would have done the trick...

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Ingenious!

Would like to know how you progress with this.

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14 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

OK been awhile, first a solution to internal blown fuse... And I should had run wire to parallel the internal battery while I had it open. The only good spot to run it out is where the fuse now sits....

And now I need help for a hitch, the strap is not cutting it, good for back up, but definitely need a hitch... Seriously, a 50 watt (or two) would have done the trick...

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I don't want to be the party pooper here but with the way your solar panels are now you might as well not have them there.  You have 200 watts of panels there but only one will ever face the sun at a time, and at that angle you have them, only sunrise or sunset will allow the sun to come in at a decent angle, and those times of day generate very little power.  So you're carrying around all that bulk and weight to maybe generate 20 or 30 watts intermittently and only at certain times of day and only if you stop somewhere where direct light hits.  That's basically useless for extending range on the MiniPro.  The small amount of energy generated by that setup will not really make much more than the energy lost by towing the trailer behind you.  When the sun is the most powerful, your panels are at the worst angle to capture it.  Perhaps I am missing something and those hinges allow them to fold out horizontally but I don't see that mechanism in the photo.  

Edited by RooMiniPro
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17 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

I don't want to be the party pooper here but with the way your solar panels are now you might as well not have them there.  You have 200 watts of panels there but only one will ever face the sun at a time, and at that angle you have them, only sunrise or sunset will allow the sun to come in at a decent angle, and those times of day generate very little power.  So you're carrying around all that bulk and weight to maybe generate 20 or 30 watts intermittently and only at certain times of day and only if you stop somewhere where direct light hits.  That's basically useless for extending range on the MiniPro.  The small amount of energy generated by that setup will not really make much more than the energy lost by towing the trailer behind you.  When the sun is the most powerful, your panels are at the worst angle to capture it.  Perhaps I am missing something and those hinges allow them to fold out horizontally but I don't see that mechanism in the photo.  

I've researched solar, maximizing angles only gains 5-10% more input ... at any angle as long as there is sunlight ... you will benefit. This setup definitely is not optimal but I bet he/she is reviving atleast 70% of its capabilities esp since they are moving as well. Now as far as the whole setup goes ... maybe if I lived off grid.

 

??

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16 hours ago, SegwayMiniPro said:

I've researched solar, maximizing angles only gains 5-10% more input ... at any angle as long as there is sunlight ... you will benefit. This setup definitely is not optimal but I bet he/she is reviving atleast 70% of its capabilities esp since they are moving as well. Now as far as the whole setup goes ... maybe if I lived off grid.

 

??

Sorry but that is just not true, at all.  You may need some more reliable sources for your research as that is nonsense.  I'm not attacking you here, just pointing out some facts to help you understand and hopefully correct the problem so all that construction and money wasn't for nothing.  Angles are important with solar.  The angle you have yours set at is totally wrong and will lose you a large percentage of the available solar energy - probably more than half - possibly even more than that. Like I said, you might as well not have those panels if you keep them at that angle. The gain you will get will be extremely small, to the point that it's really not worth towing all that weight around.  And one panel will never point at the sun, which makes carrying two totally pointless.  You'd get more energy carrying one panel totally flat than two at your near vertical angle.  If you measure your total Kwh harvest over one sunny day of real world riding you will see that it's not worth it.  Your setup is essentially just for show, unless you change the angles dramatically.

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6 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Sorry but that is just not true, at all.  You may need some more reliable sources for your research as that is nonsense.  I'm not attacking you here, just pointing out some facts to help you understand and hopefully correct the problem so all that construction and money wasn't for nothing.  Angles are important with solar.  The angle you have yours set at is totally wrong and will lose you a large percentage of the available solar energy - probably more than half - possibly even more than that. Like I said, you might as well not have those panels if you keep them at that angle. The gain you will get will be extremely small, to the point that it's really not worth towing all that weight around.  And one panel will never point at the sun, which makes carrying two totally pointless.  You'd get more energy carrying one panel totally flat than two at your near vertical angle.  If you measure your total Kwh harvest over one sunny day of real world riding you will see that it's not worth it.  Your setup is essentially just for show, unless you change the angles dramatically.

I believe the poster is using the panels while he's moving as well as stationary, he's not living off the grid using this setup. Maximizing angles for a small battery vs powering a home is futile. How do you maximize angles while in motion? That's the point I was making. He's trying something that works for the MiniPro.

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23 hours ago, SegwayMiniPro said:

I've researched solar, maximizing angles only gains 5-10% more input ... at any angle as long as there is sunlight ... you will benefit. This setup definitely is not optimal but I bet he/she is reviving atleast 70% of its capabilities esp since they are moving as well. Now as far as the whole setup goes ... maybe if I lived off grid.

 

??

 

7 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Sorry but that is just not true, at all.  You may need some more reliable sources for your research as that is nonsense.  I'm not attacking you here, just pointing out some facts to help you understand and hopefully correct the problem so all that construction and money wasn't for nothing.  Angles are important with solar.  The angle you have yours set at is totally wrong and will lose you a large percentage of the available solar energy - probably more than half - possibly even more than that. Like I said, you might as well not have those panels if you keep them at that angle. The gain you will get will be extremely small, to the point that it's really not worth towing all that weight around.  And one panel will never point at the sun, which makes carrying two totally pointless. 

As @RooMiniPro said the energy of the sunlight hitting the solar panel is extremely dependend on the angle. It's proportional to the sine or cosine (depending on which angle one measures) of the angle to the solar panel.

But maybe there is some kind of diffuser on the solar panel, which could lessen the dependency of the angle.

Some panels are optimized for diffuse/ambient light.

If there is no direct sunlight on the solarpanel it's only generating power from the diffuse/ambient light and the angle is of quite no importance anymore...

It also depends on the "working point" of the solar panel - if it already reaches its maximum with "some" light (or at an "bad" angle) it cannot produce more power with direct sunlight at the perfect angle...

Without knowing more about @MetricUSA's setup i would agree to

7 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

You'd get more energy carrying one panel totally flat than two at your near vertical angle.  If you measure your total Kwh harvest over one sunny day of real world riding you will see that it's not worth it.  Your setup is essentially just for show, unless you change the angles dramatically.

As @MetricUSAalso has a power meter in his setup, he'll see easily how well his setup works and if some changes would improve it...

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8 hours ago, SegwayMiniPro said:

I believe the poster is using the panels while he's moving as well as stationary, he's not living off the grid using this setup. Maximizing angles for a small battery vs powering a home is futile. How do you maximize angles while in motion? That's the point I was making. He's trying something that works for the MiniPro.

In case you are completely missing the point here, his setup will not work for the Mini Pro.

"Maximizing angles for a small battery vs powering a home is futile"  Clearly another person who knows nothing about solar power. 

Trying to use this while in motion will reduce energy harvest even further, actually dramatically, as obstacles will regularly block the sun.  Given that the angles are not right, and that one panel will always be in shade and that when in motion there will not always be direct sunlight, this is why this whole setup will not work.  The energy gained by the solar panel will likely not be more than the energy lost towing the weight around.  We could be talking about 30 watts coming from the panels.  That's before considering conversion losses, shading, obstacles, cloud etc. 

What would make more sense would be to carry a folding 100 watt panel in a backpack and take a break to charge for an hour.  You can angle the panel right at the sun and get maybe 80 watt hours into the MiniPro, topping up the battery quite nicely for an extended range.  But trying to charge by solar while riding is quite pointless unless you are towing 300 watts of panel behind you.  And that will just be...awkward.

 

Edited by RooMiniPro
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Given that you don't want the rig to be too wide, it would be interesting to know the output from two large panels at a non-optimum angle vs one smaller panel laid flat.  Obviously the larger the pair of panels, the nearer to vertical they will have to be mounted, but being larger they will generate more power (I assume).  Probably there is a standard formula to describe the situation.

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There is a misunderstanding here that the difference between having the worst possible angle and having the best possible angle is just a few percent in energy harvest and so it doesn't really matter, as long as sunlight is hitting the panel.  That could not be further from the truth.  My home partially runs on solar, I have a studio that is fully solar powered and I use all sorts of solar panels when away from home, from folding backpack laptop charging panels to semi-flexible mono-crystaline panels designed for RVs and boats.  A typical 100w mono-crystalline panel can go from a 15w output to a 95w output just by changing the angle so that it points directly towards the sun.  And I don't need to get the calculator out to find the angle (although commercial solar plants do use precise angles based on their geographic location to maximise output and some even use motors to track the sun throughout the day), I just make sure they are approximately directly facing the sun.  If the sun is overhead and my panels are still angled to catch the sunrise and I forget to reposition them, I get only a fraction of the energy available.  The panels in the setup above will be catching the least energy when the sun is providing its peak output.  Like I said, one panel laid flat would do a much better job than two panels at the current angle above.  I would be surprised if there is not a net loss in energy using the above setup in real world circumstances.

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1 minute ago, Ozpeter said:

Given that you don't want the rig to be too wide, it would be interesting to know the output from two large panels at a non-optimum angle vs one smaller panel laid flat.  Obviously the larger the pair of panels, the nearer to vertical they will have to be mounted, but being larger they will generate more power (I assume).  Probably there is a standard formula to describe the situation.

If the OP provides the exact angle of his current panel setup I can go and test this.  I have two panels just like his that I can position at the given angles and take readings from.

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On 8/2/2017 at 10:27 AM, RooMiniPro said:

If the OP provides the exact angle of his current panel setup I can go and test this.  I have two panels just like his that I can position at the given angles and take readings from.

Check out Novus Tech, they have a new model where the body of the lamp is all solar, full off the grid. It doesn't power much but no angle play here. Flexible panels. Mounted vertically.

IMG_2977.JPG

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I've been testing carrying an extra battery and doing field swaps. Two batteries (i.e. 2x capacity) is just about perfect i think as it gets me further as well as often keeps the top speed up when i'm just trying to get back. Sometimes finding a nice space to do the swap is not easy. Mosquitos, rain, people, lack of benches etc. can get in the way.  I'm carrying the extra battery in a backpack which ads weight and bulk, I love going light sometimes which means no extra battery. Using a small electric driver fir assembly & disassembly, but taking manual tools also just in case the driver needs a charge. 

After a while my feet get pretty sore/numb even if I take some breaks, so personally I do have some limit on the segway.  Today i went 34km, and that was pushing it.  One I stop riding though everything is fine, that time I swapped the batteries with 7km remaining and reported 28% remaining capacity.  It was a good place to swap though and top speed was restricted to 16kph. I had travelled 23.3km on the first battery.  Both batteries were charged to 63V 57xx mAh, estimated 30km capacity.

 

IMG_289.jpg

Edited by FreeRide
Add mileage and charge on first battery.
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44 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

I've been testing carrying an extra battery and doing field swaps. Two batteries (i.e. 2x capacity) is just about perfect i think as it gets me further as well as often keeps the top speed up when i'm just trying to get back. Sometimes finding a nice space to do the swap is not easy. Mosquitos, rain, people, lack of benches etc. can get in the way.  I'm carrying the extra battery in a backpack which ads weight and bulk, I love going light sometimes which means no extra battery. Using a small electric driver fir assembly & disassembly, but taking manual tools also just in case the driver needs a charge. 

 

IMG_289.jpg

This is exactly my plan.

I don't have an electric driver so manual is my only option.

I'm curious if I will have a similar experience to yours.

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On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 2:51 PM, SegwayMiniPro said:

Check out Novus Tech, they have a new model where the body of the lamp is all solar, full off the grid. It doesn't power much but no angle play here. Flexible panels. Mounted vertically.

IMG_2977.JPG

Metric is not using that type of panel in his setup.

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On 8/5/2017 at 7:49 PM, Rocky Romero said:

This is exactly my plan.

I don't have an electric driver so manual is my only option.

I'm curious if I will have a similar experience to yours.

I happened to have this spare electric driver since I generally use a different one.  This has turned out great as this one is very small and it makes the actual swap really quite fast.  Today I swapped at 5km remaining estimate (optimistic I'm sure, battery reported 22% charge level 1302mAh, and I had traveled 20.2km; which does not quite align), but at that point the top speed was reduced to 14km/hr so street travel was a pain.  Some of the travel was off-road, but 16.8 km was all asphalt road, so I would not have likely got the 30km estimate for a full charge, although I had extra weight.  If I had a way to carry the battery on the mini pro instead of in a backpack that would be better.  

Right now I need to attach a bracket of some sort so I can mount a flashlight as a head lamp as I sometimes travel before sunrise, I have a temp solution right now. 

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4 hours ago, FreeRide said:

I happened to have this spare electric driver since I generally use a different one.  This has turned out great as this one is very small and it makes the actual swap really quite fast.  Today I swapped at 5km remaining estimate (optimistic I'm sure, battery reported 22% charge level 1302mAh, and I had traveled 20.2km; which does not quite align), but at that point the top speed was reduced to 14km/hr so street travel was a pain.  Some of the travel was off-road, but 16.8 km was all asphalt road, so I would not have likely got the 30km estimate for a full charge, although I had extra weight.  If I had a way to carry the battery on the mini pro instead of in a backpack that would be better.  

Right now I need to attach a bracket of some sort so I can mount a flashlight as a head lamp as I sometimes travel before sunrise, I have a temp solution right now. 

Do you have a MiniPro or Mini?

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6 hours ago, FreeRide said:

I happened to have this spare electric driver since I generally use a different one.  This has turned out great as this one is very small and it makes the actual swap really quite fast.  Today I swapped at 5km remaining estimate (optimistic I'm sure, battery reported 22% charge level 1302mAh, and I had traveled 20.2km; which does not quite align), but at that point the top speed was reduced to 14km/hr so street travel was a pain.  Some of the travel was off-road, but 16.8 km was all asphalt road, so I would not have likely got the 30km estimate for a full charge, although I had extra weight.  If I had a way to carry the battery on the mini pro instead of in a backpack that would be better.  

Right now I need to attach a bracket of some sort so I can mount a flashlight as a head lamp as I sometimes travel before sunrise, I have a temp solution right now. 

I will be battery swapping this weekend, testing on a longer ride on the lakefront for about 15 miles.  Speed of battery swap is not as important yet.  My fall back option is taking public transportation back.  The backup battery will be on my back pack & always have the charger on my MiniPro inside a water bottle case.  

I bought a cap visor light which seems easier to attach then mounting a light on the MiniPro.

Edited by Rocky Romero
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If I'd travelled far enough to flatten a battery, I'd be happy to spend a good half hour fitting the second one before having to heave my weary self back on board!  But I guess for you younger guys it's all no problem...

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Roominipro, who the hell are you? You are no damn solar expert, yourself, fucking over fucking thinking the whole mess! The panels are set up for lower sun angles, don't care about noon sun since, a little from both panels, I can only use 70 watts any given time directly charging mini... Besides on the move will be getting lots of tree shodows. This is not just for mini, but as well to transport with bike... Besides once stopped, it can be angled flat to sun BOTH PANELS! Could have used one 50 watt panel, so get over yourself...

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7 hours ago, Ozpeter said:

If I'd travelled far enough to flatten a battery, I'd be happy to spend a good half hour fitting the second one before having to heave my weary self back on board!  But I guess for you younger guys it's all no problem...

I'm no spring chicken.  I did mention in my first report that after going 33+ km, my feet were plenty sore. That's certainly my current limit without breaks.  That trip didn't have many breaks and I felt it.  Did 29km the other day with less problems because I have a break at the battery swap time for a couple hours, and then a short ride, break, and a 3km trip home.  Still when I got home my feet were pretty sore.  Takes me full day in-between rides to recover from such long trips.  Usually I ride then take a break sometimes extended break for hike, and then ride again.  Usually I do stop multiple times for photographs or observations.  I have no transportation option to get back so I count on my batteries.  I think going off a paved surface impacts the battery life quite a bit.

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1 hour ago, FreeRide said:

I'm no spring chicken.  I did mention in my first report that after going 33+ km, my feet were plenty sore. That's certainly my current limit without breaks.  That trip didn't have many breaks and I felt it.  Did 29km the other day with less problems because I have a break at the battery swap time for a couple hours, and then a short ride, break, and a 3km trip home.  Still when I got home my feet were pretty sore.  Takes me full day in-between rides to recover from such long trips.  Usually I ride then take a break sometimes extended break for hike, and then ride again.  Usually I do stop multiple times for photographs or observations.  I have no transportation option to get back so I count on my batteries.  I think going off a paved surface impacts the battery life quite a bit.

Off topic somewhat, is there muscle strengthening going on with the feet, legs and torso?

After such extended riding times, something is getting a workout.

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10 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

Roominipro, who the hell are you? You are no damn solar expert, yourself, fucking over fucking thinking the whole mess! The panels are set up for lower sun angles, don't care about noon sun since, a little from both panels, I can only use 70 watts any given time directly charging mini... Besides on the move will be getting lots of tree shodows. This is not just for mini, but as well to transport with bike... Besides once stopped, it can be angled flat to sun BOTH PANELS! Could have used one 50 watt panel, so get over yourself...

I'm not the world's greatest solar expert, but I do appear to have a hell of a lot more experience and knowledge in solar than you.  I have been using solar to power my home, my tools, my computer, my studio and all my small electronics for about ten years.  I have gone through many panels of different designs and made mistakes when I knew less about this than I do now.  I offered some advice to you about your system (because the way you built it is borderline useless for the purpose you intend to use it for) and you respond by getting angry and defensive.  That says it all.  If you had even half a clue about this stuff you would not have built it that way.  I have already told you that it's not going to provide a useful amount of power to run your MiniPro the way you have it set up.  Why is that so hard to accept calmly?  Because you have already put  a lot of time and money into it and refuse to accept defeat and make some changes?  Swearing and throwing insults is exactly what certain types of people do when they know they are incorrect but are not intellectually developed enough to politely admit it and gratefully accept useful advice when it is offered. 

 

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10 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

. Besides once stopped, it can be angled flat to sun BOTH PANELS!

I thought it was pretty good idea just to be pulling a trailer.  Then to have solar panels also is good idea!  It is people who have ideas that make progress.

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