Msuper v3 top speed crash - wrecked shell

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Mik3 beat my post by seconds... 

Glad to hear that @nomad is still alive and without permanent physical injuries.  Me, I personally don't like seeing these crash videos as much as enjoyable rides that people post up.  It's like someone taking an expensive motorcycle and crashing it up.  Spectacular to watch I guess but sort of a waste of a nice new wheel.  I think we all know by now what happens when you turn off the tiltback and ignore the beep warnings when reaching terminal velocity.  Who's next who wants to demonstrate it on video?  Accidents will happen, and it sounds like the downhill slope increasing the speed likely oversped the wheel resulting in overpower from back EMF triggering the BMS to shut down power before braking power could be applied.  Just a guess.  I'm thinking though that the accident might have been avoided with prudent programming of the tiltback and beep warnings and careful riding.  I should bump up my old EUC driving test thread...

@Soju hit the nail right on the head.  Rather than demonstrating how to ride safely these crash videos are similar to those hoverboard videos of people falling off while pushing limits.  It just gives a bad impression of these EUCs to the general public who might not understand the safe driving limits of the wheel when ridden normally.  When someone gets killed or paralyzed (and unfortunately it will happen one day), the news will put it up and the party will be over.  People instead of saying that's cool will think you're going to crash at any moment.

I'm sure we're all curious about the limits we can push our wheels, but I think we have to remember we're all representing this new hobby of ours.  If a pedestrian (eg. Child walking with mom) gets hit with an out of control 30 pound wheel things will not end well for anyone.  I compare it to someone racing their Porsche around a public area to test it's limits who ends up out of control.   If you want to push things I'd suggest to do it on a track away from the public since the rest of us want to continue being allowed to ride safely in public.  It just makes the rest of us look bad when you crash in the eyes of the public.  It doesn't take much for the law makers to see these crashes at higher speeds and want to ban or limit the speed for everyone.

Just my opinion of course.  People are free to keep doing whatever they want.  Happy accidental (but avoidable) crashing!  

[EricGhost]

All this speed race for me it's nonsense, due to their unstable DNA EUCs are not meant for speed, but companies are market driven, therefore the blame falls on customers.

If I want speed I buy a motorbike, an angry Japanese one not an unstable Chinese EUC for sure, but I still surprise myself that I'm wondering about such thing when I should know the lack of cleverness affect the majority of the human population which leads from nonsense wars, to the car driver writing SMS, to the pedestrians walking the road while hunting Pokémon, to rocket guys on an unstable wheel.

Why not a race for the acceleration from 0-30kmph max at least it will lead to safer situations, thank to the greater torque involved

[Marty Backe]

9 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

<snip>

If a pedestrian (eg. Child walking with mom) gets hit with an out of control 30 pound wheel things will not end well for anyone.

<snip>

Minor but important correction - the MSuper and its like are 40+ pound objects. I don't want one tipping over on my foot let alone hitting me at 20+ mph.

 

[Greg Spalding]

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Thank god these are only Gotways with cutouts..

For the V3 -anounced with 45kmh- we have here on the Forum now 2 cutouts reported, at 45kmh...

For. the Ks18 1200 Watt -aunounced with 40km- we have -i dont know exactly- about 5-7 or more cut outs? Some of them at just 32kmh?

Sorry for beeing ironic ;-)

I love KingSong wheels, but they -or better say all EUC's- are in no way better than Gotway performance wise...

Kinsong lately anounced their wheels with a certain speed, and than on later firmwares restrict this speed when batterie under 50%....i always would suggest not to the highest announced speed with any of these racers...always stay in a good safty margin..or listen to your wheel, like in this case here has been totally ignored!

but to get out of this crash a general "Gotway" warning? than it would be better to stay away from all wheels, perhaps beside inmotion, where i havent heard a bad thing(as "slow"-safety they are)

i guess "KNOCK ON WOOD" so far about Inmotion..... i hope it stays that way

while i can appreciate what King Song is doing.... LIMITING the speed of a wheel starting at 50% batter life remaining seems RIDICULOUS... there has to be a better way.

as I consider WHICH to buy... it's all a bit UNNERVING, quite frankly

[MaxLinux]

 

Those colored shells are awesome! What is the source for those?

 

[Greg Spalding]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

There is - it's called tilt-back. Because people decide to disable that feature you (I know 'you' weren't) can't blame the manufacturer.

I don't blame the manufacturer

But, TILT-BACK should not be able to be disabled

The wheel should never be able to get to the speed at which it will shut off abruptly unless someone re-programs it illegally

Maybe I'm an idealist I suppose... But it would be nice to know no GotWay we'll ever had such an event when it was not being pushed beyond the manufacturer's recommendations

[Greg Spalding]

54 minutes ago, mik3 said:

As you mentioned @KingSong69 I've also noticed the "hate" towards GW in the forums tho lots of cut-offs have also happened with KS and numerous other brands. Maybe it is because they are making EUCs that really raise the max speed by every version and use it in the marking also. Who knows.

I for one hope for even more max speed because that gives me more headroom - for this reason only I ordered the 84V version and I really hope that it really is faster(and not only marketing gimmick). BUT here comes our responsibility as EUC drivers to NOT to drive it as fast as it goes but to limit(tilt-back) the speed for lets say 40km/h. Now we have 5km/h overhead to the max speed and hopefully more in the 84V version. I think most of us can concur that 40km/h is high enough speed. Specially if you are driving with other people and still I think one should always lower the speed around pedestrians. As @Soju said - if you are driving in forest/track/places with no other people then by all means test the limits of your EUCs and please use somekind of heavy protection.

Now some might think that shouldn't that be the manufacturers responsibility to limit the EUCs, but for me it's the same with cars. If you have a sports car you should only use its max abilities in closed circuits - again it comes down to being responsible driver.

Worst case situation isn't that EUC driver kills him or herself, but that 20kg unicycle smashes to someone else and harms or kills them. And in the situation where we have only handful of countries where you can legally drive we really should drive as responsible as possible because we are under the microscope. But still I don't think that we should kill the fun for the people who really want to enjoy the speed, because that can also be enjoyed by choosing the right place - tracks, forest ect. Just my two cents.

 

I surely agree with you about the idea of head room

I personally (taking into consideration my 85+ kilograms of weight) want a wheel that will travel at 35 km/h with a range of 40 km with plenty of headroom for both of those values to be repeatable over months of recharging the original batteries.  As a pediatrician, if I injure myself and cannot work I will not be able to support my family or do the work I love. All I can do is take all the necessary precautions with protective gear while riding as a career ending injury could occur at 12 km/h with some bad luck involved. I have never had any desire to be on a one-wheeled device traveling at the greatest speed possible. We will see where all of this takes us

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Greg Spalding said:

<snip>

Maybe I'm an idealist I suppose... But it would be nice to know no GotWay we'll ever had such an event when it was not being pushed beyond the manufacturer's recommendations

I tend to agree with you, but then again I'm kind of a liberty freak. So I'd rather have default safety controls with the option to turn off at your own peril.

[Jason McNeil]

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

For the V3 -anounced with 45kmh- we have here on the Forum now 2 cutouts reported, at 45kmh...
For. the Ks18 1200 Watt -aunounced with 40km- we have -i dont know exactly- about 5-7 or more cut outs? Some of them at just 32kmh?
Sorry for beeing ironic ;-)
I love KingSong wheels, but they -or better say all EUC's- are in no way better than Gotway performance wise...

It's a valid point. For those instances, I think the evidence was that KS screwed up with the FW on the 1200W, where the cut-out no-load speed of 43kph, was too close to the max of 40kph, pretty shoddy.

My particular bone to pick with GW, is that, IMO, an essential First Design Principle that ought to be embedded in the DNA of every Wheel is that no matter how daring a Rider feels, it should be not possible to set up the system so that it WILL fail if ridden beyond a mere audible alert.  

[Greg Spalding]

1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said:

My particular bone to pick with GW, is that, IMO, an essential First Design Principle that ought to be embedded in the DNA of every Wheel is that no matter how daring a Rider feels, it should be not possible to set up the system so that it WILL fail if ridden beyond a mere audible alert.  

that was EXACTLY my point above because when folks start "abusing the limits" of any wheel.... and become disabled or worse we will ALL be stuck riding out wheels out in the country... far from any civic regulatory agencies

[MaxLinux]

8 hours ago, Greg Spalding said:

Someone please give us more TORQUE and RANGE and not more top and speed.

How fast is fast enough for EUCs?? If you hit a rock at 45 kph, how far will your body go flying?? Yet the EUC can barely climb a hill!! 

[Greg Spalding]

46 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

How fast is fast enough for EUCs?? If you hit a rock at 45 kph, how far will your body go flying?? Yet the EUC can barely climb a hill!! 

exactly...

i just want to be able to travel

@ at a constant 20 mph (for 80%+ of the charge of the battery)

for 20 miles, consistently, at my 85kg+ of weight

that really isn't too much to ask... is it?

[OliverH]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

It's a valid point. For those instances, I think the evidence was that KS screwed up with the FW on the 1200W, where the cut-out no-load speed of 43kph, was too close to the max of 40kph, pretty shoddy.

My particular bone to pick with GW, is that, IMO, an essential First Design Principle that ought to be embedded in the DNA of every Wheel is that no matter how daring a Rider feels, it should be not possible to set up the system so that it WILL fail if ridden beyond a mere audible alert.  

Yes! Let's talk about maximum design speed. 

[16bitSprite]

Glad your ok after the crash. I can't see why GW can't release a safe Weight to top speed safety chart. I know people want to push the limits and that's fine if it's made clear to them that they are operating the wheel in an unsafe zone. For the general commuter it could even be implemented in the app. Enter your weight and tiltback is set for you at a reliable speed. No more guessing safety margins. 

Hopefully everyone starts to wear safety gear after watching these sort of videos. EUCs are fun but brain damage is forever.

[US69]

8 hours ago, 16bitSprite said:

Glad your ok after the crash. I can't see why GW can't release a safe Weight to top speed safety chart. I know people want to push the limits and that's fine if it's made clear to them that they are operating the wheel in an unsafe zone. For the general commuter it could even be implemented in the app. Enter your weight and tiltback is set for you at a reliable speed. No more guessing safety margins. 

Hopefully everyone starts to wear safety gear after watching these sort of videos. EUCs are fun but brain damage is forever.

Whats with road direction(Uphill-downhill), road condition(bumps, buttholes), Wind (head or backwind)???

How should this ever workout? It will always stay in the users responsibiltiy to have a safe ride!

Here the Driver ignored the 80% beeps of the Motor the hole time...and kept pushing and pushing... "pushing the Limits" is just asking for a Faceplant...

My 2 cents

[Jose Otal]

translated by google, sorry for the misunderstanding, I'm waiting for my Msuper, the video is very good and instructive, because you can see the sense of speed in urban areas, an expert driver of any vehicle, can weigh can overcome limits on their ability to control extreme mometos, but no one is free from an unexpected shock, the first thing is the safety of pedestrians and another thing and learned from these videos, it is to use self protection, with my ninebot not I use it, I would like to see a video that explains well the meanings of different beeps alert the Gotway, I imagine a person who wants to go to work in a hurry with his Gotway and ignore beeps alert, this video can see the consequences, I believe that all who seek a faster wheel, is because we want to have a good cruising speed and not hear beeps warning, 30 or 35 klh okay

traducido por google , disculpen los mal entendidos ,yo estoy esperando mi Msuper,  el video es muy bueno y instructivo  , porque se puede ver la sensacion de velocidad en zona urbana , un conductor experto , de cualquier tipo de vehiculo , puede pesar  que puede superar los limites , por su capacidad de control en  mometos extremos , pero nadie es libre de un susto inesperado, lo primero es la seguridad de los peatones y otra cosa que e aprendido gracias a estos videos ,es , utilizar auto proteccion , con mi ninebot no la utilizo , me gustaria ver un video que explique bien los significados de los diferentes pitidos de alerta de los gotway , quiero imaginar a una persona que quiere ir al trabajo con mucha  prisa con su gotway y no hace caso de los pitidos de alerta , con este video puede ver las consecuencias ,creo que todos los que buscamos una rueda mas veloz , es porque queremos tener una buena velocidad de crucero y no escuchar pitidos de alerta , 30 o 35 klh esta bien

 

[16bitSprite]

3 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

Whats with road direction(Uphill-downhill), road condition(bumps, buttholes), Wind (head or backwind)???

How should this ever workout? It will always stay in the users responsibiltiy to have a safe ride!

Here the Driver ignored the 80% beeps of the Motor the hole time...and kept pushing and pushing... "pushing the Limits" is just asking for a Faceplant...

My 2 cents

That's what needs to be taken into account. When everything is put together, uphill, headwind and low battery at the same time, this should be the max 'Safe Speed' for a person's Weight. You are right that it's up to the user to be safe though. Anything in excess of this speed could be the users choice and considered an 'Unsafe Speed'.

At the moment it seems the way we are finding these statistics is by riders exceeding the limits of the machines and crashing. 

[Tishawn Fahie]

17 hours ago, Greg Spalding said:

I don't blame the manufacturer

But, TILT-BACK should not be able to be disabled

The wheel should never be able to get to the speed at which it will shut off abruptly unless someone re-programs it illegally

Maybe I'm an idealist I suppose... But it would be nice to know no GotWay we'll ever had such an event when it was not being pushed beyond the manufacturer's recommendations

Well that's just it - I blame GOTWAY.  The Gotway App decides to disable tiltback the moment you set it on the advertised max speed. A wheel should not cut off on anybody. The ninebot company are very good at slowing down the wheel the moment the rider approaches max speed.

 

Why cant Gotway do the same? If the wheel cant handle 27mph then dont advertise it. 

 

I have an ACM and I favor the wheel due to the speed and mileage, I'm very careful and  listen to all beeps as they come. I ride it everyday to work 15 miles each way. My speed is set at 48km/h and yet some how if I ride at that speed there's no titlback & the wheel will cuttoff on me.

Not cool!

 

 

[Greg Spalding]

5 minutes ago, Tishawn Fahie said:

Well that's just it - I blame GOTWAY.  The Gotway App decides to disable tiltback the moment you set it on the advertised max speed. A wheel should not cut off on anybody. The ninebot company are very good at slowing down the wheel the moment the rider approaches max speed.

 

Why cant Gotway do the same? If the wheel cant handle 27mph then dont advertise it. 

 

I have an ACM and I favor the wheel due to the speed and mileage, I'm very careful and  listen to all beeps as they come. I ride it everyday to work 15 miles each way. My speed is set at 48km/h and yet some how if I ride at that speed there's no titlback & the wheel will cuttoff on me.

Not cool!

 

 

i appreciate your post very much

very odd story about the MISSING TILT-BACK on YOUR ACM

also,

and, please forgive me for asking (especially if i have already asked)

- what is YOUR approx. weight?

- do you charge your ACM AT work for the ride home?

- if now, what percentage of battery charge is left when you arrive home at the end of your 30 mile round trip ?

[Tishawn Fahie]

9 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

i appreciate your post very much

very odd story about the MISSING TILT-BACK on YOUR ACM

also,

and, please forgive me for asking (especially if i have already asked)

- what is YOUR approx. weight?

- do you charge your ACM AT work for the ride home?

- if now, what percentage of battery charge is left when you arrive home at the end of your 30 mile round trip ?

I weigh 60 kg (140lbs) - Ask anybody who has an ACM if you set it on max speed there's no tiltback at all! 

Yes I charge my wheel when I get to work.

The Gotway acm has 5 bars that display battery life.

When I get home i'm down to 3. This is shown at the end of the video I posted. 

But i've done the 30 mile trip on a single charge. I got home to 1 bar left.

 

Thanks.

[Greg Spalding]

5 minutes ago, Tishawn Fahie said:

I weigh 60 kg (140lbs) - Ask anybody who has an ACM if you set it on max speed there's no tiltback at all! 

Yes I charge my wheel when I get to work.

The Gotway acm has 5 bars that display battery life.

When I get home i'm down to 3. This is shown at the end of the video I posted. 

But i've done the 30 mile trip on a single charge. I got home to 1 bar left.

 

Thanks.

thank you for that info

i really appreciate it

[Marty Backe]

Tilt-back works just fine on my ACM. I never experience it since I generally don't ride much faster than 20mph. But I've experimented. Set the tilt-back speed to 15mph and you get tilt-back. Set it to 10mph and you get tilt-back.

But let's get serious, if you set the speed to 48kph you can't be surprised if it cuts out on you. Common sense after being around the 'sport' for any length of time should tell you that operating at the upper limits will never be safe, and unexpected things will happen.

[Tishawn Fahie]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Tilt-back works just fine on my ACM. I never experience it since I generally don't ride much faster than 20mph. But I've experimented. Set the tilt-back speed to 15mph and you get tilt-back. Set it to 10mph and you get tilt-back.

But let's get serious, if you set the speed to 48kph you can't be surprised if it cuts out on you. Common sense after being around the 'sport' for any length of time should tell you that operating at the upper limits will never be safe, and unexpected things will happen.

I'm sure tilt back works on lower speeds.... But it should work on all speeds..... Like say the Ninebot does... I believe in common sense... but its like buying a lamborghini... Why purchase that car to drive  35mph when it's capable of higher speeds.. 

No offensive but yes I'm very surprised that a company can advertise that their product can do something when in fact cant do it or can but cant properly... If my wheel is advertise to do 27mph then I should be able to do 27mph... Not saying I would ever go that fast but yes i'm surprised.... It crazy to even think my wheel is expected to shutoff when doing the advertised speeds.

[Marty Backe]

9 minutes ago, Tishawn Fahie said:

I'm sure tilt back works on lower speeds.... But it should work on all speeds..... Like say the Ninebot does... I believe in common sense... but its like buying a lamborghini... Why purchase that car to drive  35mph when it's capable of higher speeds.. 

No offensive but yes I'm very surprised that a company can advertise that their product can do something when in fact cant do it or can but cant properly... If my wheel is advertise to do 27mph then I should be able to do 27mph... Not saying I would ever go that fast but yes i'm surprised.... It crazy to even think my wheel is expected to shutoff when doing the advertised speeds.

I hear you, believe me. At at this point in time we have to deal with the 'fact' that at least where Gotway is concerned, their advertised top speed is for ideal conditions (80kg weight, no wind, level surface, etc.).

For me, I'm going to consider the top speed for any wheel to be ~20mph. Anything advertised above that is margin that I'll use for safety.

[Tishawn Fahie]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

I hear you, believe me. At at this point in time we have to deal with the 'fact' that at least where Gotway is concerned, their advertised top speed is for ideal conditions (80kg weight, no wind, level surface, etc.).

For me, I'm going to consider the top speed for any wheel to be ~20mph. Anything advertised above that is margin that I'll use for safety.

Makes sense! And agreed! safety first. Good point!