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1640Wh - 67,2V / 1600Wh - 84V


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On 2016/10/13 at 5:55 PM, Greg Spalding said:

how is the charging time?

always surprised by the 1.5A for such a situation

perhaps there is another option for "SAFE" faster charging for this new 84V/1600Wh battery

It is slow even for his 1025Wh, takes about 9 hours for LED to turn green. I think 3A is absolute safe in view of the socket, wires and connectors. The socket is rated 8A, the wire is 20AWG which can carry 5A IMO. The plug/socket pair is SM2P, I don't know the rating, photo below

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3 minutes ago, zlymex said:

It is slow even for his 1025Wh, takes about 9 hours for LED to turn green. I think 3A is absolute safe in view of the socket, wires and connectors. The socket is rated 8A, the wire is 20AWG which can carry 5A IMO. The plug/socket pair is SM2P, I don't know the rating, photo below
SM2P.jpg

thank you for that info

9 hours to turn green?

YIKES

i don't like the sound of that

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5 hours ago, zlymex said:

You are very observant. Those tethers are cables for backpack battery modules(usually 340Wh) neccesary for longer trip with hills. We did climb part of the great wall with our EUC and rode on it.
webwxgetmsgimg (12m).jpg

I didn't ask why the one with neck brace, may be he got some neck problems or protection.

Are those "backpack extra batteries" do it yourself or can you buy them in China? If so...can you give a link?

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1 minute ago, Greg Spalding said:

thank you for that info

9 hours to turn green?

YIKES

i don't like the sound of that

The battery of my friend's 84V version is 20s4p of 3.5Ah cell, which is 14Ah in capacity, takes 14/1.5=9.33 hours for total empty to full in theory. The 1600Wh version is 20s6p which is 21Ah and takes 21/1.5=14 hours to charge roughly. Each cell is NCR18650GA. When the charge is near full, the LED on the charge will turns green from red.

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1 minute ago, zlymex said:

The battery of my friend's 84V version is 20s4p of 3.5Ah cell, which is 14Ah in capacity, takes 14/1.5=9.33 hours for total empty to full in theory. The 1600Wh version is 20s6p which is 21Ah and takes 21/1.5=14 hours to charge roughly. Each cell is NCR18650GA. When the charge is near full, the LED on the charge will turns green from red.

I guess that makes sense. I have a couple of battery backup units in the house that have regular car batteries in them, and obviously they take 24 hours to charge with similar capacities. Kind of a crazy story guess we spent only 1 1/2 hours on a wheel to deplete its entire battery capacity and have to spend three quarters of a day charging up again.

I understand how all this works, but it is bizarre that there is hardly a wheel in existence which can give you 60 minutes of RUN time at 80% of maximum speed. Perhaps over time, more efficient motors will be developed that will change that phenomenon

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7 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

I guess that makes sense. I have a couple of battery backup units in the house that have regular car batteries in them, and obviously they take 24 hours to charge with similar capacities. Kind of a crazy story guess we spent only 1 1/2 hours on a wheel to deplete its entire battery capacity and have to spend three quarters of a day charging up again.

I understand how all this works, but it is bizarre that there is hardly a wheel in existence which can give you 60 minutes of RUN time at 80% of maximum speed. Perhaps over time, more efficient motors will be developed that will change that phenomenon

With 1,5 Ampere this "Special" 84V chargers are a bit on the weak side....

Normaly KS has always 2 Amp Chargers and GW has normally 1,75 Amp....

Also you can always Charge all wheels with capacity > 500wh with a 4 Amp Charger....i Need for my KS18 with 1360wh just 5-6 hours when totally empty!

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39 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Are those "backpack extra batteries" do it yourself or can you buy them in China? If so...can you give a link?

Yes, battery pack, fast charger and water. The link I bought(in China) disappeared, it consist of 32 Panasonic NCR18650PF cells and a protection board.
Similar links: 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.fTCuYd&id=520244926242&
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-11139018779.87.E4BTjG&id=522189532203

Edit: add photo of my external battery pack. I have other two as well.
ExternalPack.jpg

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24 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

With 1,5 Ampere this "Special" 84V chargers are a bit on the weak side....

Normaly KS has always 2 Amp Chargers and GW has normally 1,75 Amp....

Also you can always Charge all wheels with capacity > 500wh with a 4 Amp Charger....i Need for my KS18 with 1360wh just 5-6 hours when totally empty!

i agree

as long as the LONGEVITY of a battery pack is the same with faster charging, all is good

 

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13 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

i agree

as long as the LONGEVITY of a battery pack is the same with faster charging, all is good

 

a 1360wh Batterie is made from 8 parallel packs, so each pack just gets a half amp (4:8= 0,5)....

0,5 Amp is still considered as a slow Charge....all which is not over 1 Amp is not taking away Batterie life....

So 520-820 Watthour packs( all 4P) are also ok...as this means just 1 Amp per pack!

Only if you are under 4P you should not use 4Amps as this could be a bit much for a 2P pack(but this also depends on the used cell, could still be ok)

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7 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

a 1360wh Batterie is made from 8 parallel packs, so each pack just gets a half amp (4:8= 0,5)....

0,5 Amp is still considered as a slow Charge....all which is not over 1 Amp is not taking away Batterie life....

So 520-820 Watthour packs( all 4P) are also ok...as this means just 1 Amp per pack!

Only if you are under 4P you should not use 4Amps as this could be a bit much for a 2P pack(but this also depends on the used cell, could still be ok)

as always, i appreciate that education

my knowledge of battery pack nomenclature is quite poor but, i'm learning

thanks for that info

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1 hour ago, zlymex said:

It is slow even for his 1025Wh, takes about 9 hours for LED to turn green. I think 3A is absolute safe in view of the socket, wires and connectors. The socket is rated 8A, the wire is 20AWG which can carry 5A IMO. The plug/socket pair is SM2P, I don't know the rating, photo below
SM2P.jpg

This looks exactly same on V8 - thanks for giving us the name as I was looking for those on aliexpress!

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1 hour ago, zlymex said:

It is slow even for his 1025Wh, takes about 9 hours for LED to turn green. I think 3A is absolute safe in view of the socket, wires and connectors. The socket is rated 8A, the wire is 20AWG which can carry 5A IMO. The plug/socket pair is SM2P, I don't know the rating, photo below
SM2P.jpg

Wow! Only 1 charge port and Gotway made the charger even slower than their usual 1.75a?? I didnt expect that.

i will be buying the 1600wh version, which, i guess, will spend most of the time connected to the outlet.

Another surprise is that Gotway is still using those flimsy connectors on the charging side. I believe they are rated for 3A

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1 minute ago, Cloud said:

Another surprise is that Gotway is still using those flimsy connectors on the charging side. I believe they are rated for 3A

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody has moved to XT-60's or similar, just for ease, and never worrying about durability.  On E-Bikes, they are using XT-90s's that prevent sparks when connected on the Output Side.  I really like that idea, and it should be used here too.

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

With 1,5 Ampere this "Special" 84V chargers are a bit on the weak side....

Normaly KS has always 2 Amp Chargers and GW has normally 1,75 Amp....

8 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Wow! Only 1 charge port and Gotway made the charger even slower than their usual 1.75a?? I didnt expect that.

 

Well - not really:

84V x 1.5A = 126W

vs.

67.2V x 2A = 134.4W

so the default "slow" 84V charges (for both GW as well as IM) are only 8.4W / 6.66% "behind" the common standard 67.2 "slow" chargers ;)

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6 minutes ago, zlymex said:

I bought last year a 5A-67.2V charger for my V2 and now for my V3. This is the one very similar to mine:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16S-lithium-ion-battery-charger-67-2V-5A-tricycle-battery-charger-for-escooter/32738664157.html

There are 3A-84V chargers available which I think suitable for V3-1600Wh.

I've bought 84V / 4A one for my V8 and "throttled" it down to 3.2A to not melt the cables / small battery charging plugs and to stay within the limits of safe cell's charging to extend (or at least to not shorten) it's life and it's such relief to not wait almost 5 hours anymore to fully recharge the wheel after only 1.5h ride ;) 

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2 minutes ago, HEC said:

I've bought 84V / 4A one for my V8 and "throttled" it down to 3.2A to not melt the cables / small battery charging plugs and to stay within the limits of safe cell's charging to extend (or at least to not shorten) it's life and it's such relief to not wait almost 5 hours anymore to fully recharge the wheel after only 1.5h ride ;) 

That is a good strategy. I use my 5A charger only when I'm outside, and charge together with my external battery(2P at least) by a spliter.
The internal battery cell of current Gotway EUCs is mostly NCR18650GA, which has a 1.675A standard charge current, which is smaller than 1.25A=5A/4P. 

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One day, perhaps batteries will become far lighter and smaller because wouldn't it be amazing to be able to ride your WHEEL... For two hours at 75% of maximum speed without having to stop and charger batteries?

Most wheels won't even make it an hour writing at a fast pace with their current battery capacity, which is something I suppose we will laugh at 10 years from now, or maybe even 3.

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3 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

One day, perhaps batteries will become far lighter and smaller because wouldn't it be amazing to be able to ride your WHEEL... For two hours at 75% of maximum speed without having to stop and charger batteries?

Most wheels won't even make it an hour writing at a fast pace with their current battery capacity, which is something I suppose we will laugh at 10 years from now, or maybe even 3.

That IMO is not likely to happen. Lithium batteries may be the best of all the rechargeables, and 18650 cells maybe the best overall for lithium batteries, even Tesla use 18650 cells in their electric cars. I bought(in batch) NCR18650B three years ago, which already rated at 3400mAh. But look at now, the best 18650 is still 3500mAh. It seems to me that lithium rechargeable batteries are reaching the limit.

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2 minutes ago, zlymex said:

That IMO is not likely to happen. Lithium batteries may be the best of all the rechargeables, and 18650 cells maybe the best overall for lithium batteries, even Tesla use 18650 cells in their electric cars. I bought(in batch) NCR18650B three years ago, which already rated at 3400mAh. But look at now, the best 18650 is still 3500mAh. It seems to me that lithium rechargeable batteries are reaching the limit.

i'm sure you are correct.... i just wonder what the BREAK will be to give us more than 1 hour of use from our wheels?

electric cars had the same problem... some still only give less than 60 miles/charge

weight will always be the issue but i'm sure something will happen in the future to change all of that... probably "on-the-fly" regenerative technology that recharges the batteries as you use them NO MATTER WHAT THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL

hope i'm around to see it

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3 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

i'm sure you are correct.... i just wonder what the BREAK will be to give us more than 1 hour of use from our wheels?

electric cars had the same problem... some still only give less than 60 miles/charge

weight will always be the issue but i'm sure something will happen in the future to change all of that

hope i'm around to see it

Aligning the cells of current batteries is promising and cheap to add to the production line.  I believe this will be the next break.  Performance increases of 30-50% and faster charging without changing the current process of building batteries.  Just add a single step to the process.

http://phys.org/news/2016-07-li-ion-rechargeable-batteries-longer-re-charge.html

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6 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

i'm sure you are correct.... i just wonder what the BREAK will be to give us more than 1 hour of use from our wheels?

electric cars had the same problem... some still only give less than 60 miles/charge

weight will always be the issue but i'm sure something will happen in the future to change all of that... probably "on-the-fly" regenerative technology that recharges the batteries as you use them NO MATTER WHAT THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL

hope i'm around to see it

Aha now I understand. I hope too there will be breakthrough on or apart from graphene, super capacitor, inertia, compressed gas.

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