WheelLog for Inmotion - Development

[WARPed1701D]

55 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

Strange, I will check, but it will be difficult without Pebble)

Don't try too hard. I just did some messing around at my desk and was unable to recreate it. A bug no doubt but an intermittent one what it not likely the result of your efforts to integrate Inmotion compatibility. It may not even be Pebble related. Just a coincidence. I'll keep checking it.

I have tested the light controls. All worked. Volume sometimes didn't give a feedback beep from the wheel after Iifted my finger. I'm not sure if the value was accepted or not.

Speed control appears to work. I tried 20, 25 and 30kph settings. Tiltback seems to occur early for some settings. Examples.

At 20kph limit setting I see the following message in the log:
Titlback at speed 20.31 at limit 20.00 [0602204EFEABFFFF]
The logged wheel speed at that moment was 19.4.
In this instance the setting and the log message concur at 20kph.

At 30kph limit setting I see the following message in the log:
Titlback at speed 28.14 at limit 28.11 [0602CD6D988BFFFF]
The logged wheel speed at that moment was 27.17.
Not sure where 28.11 came from with a 30kph setting although my battery was at 30% so this could just be the natural retardation of speed at lower battery levels.

I don't know if this means anything but I thought I would share it.

Finally, an observation/feedback. If WheelLog is set to run in MPH the new speed limit setting remains in KPH. Not a big deal but if the units aligned it would be more intuitive.

 

[palachzzz]

Alert messages comes separately, and carry only the information that is in the alert col, all the other characteristics are taken from the last successful status message. You can see that the values with the alert are always the same as the previous ones. I haven't found another way to write alerts into the log without breaking the structure of the CSV file.Those, you should believe the values in the alert.

25 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Titlback at speed 20.31 at limit 20.00 [0602204EFEABFFFF]
The logged wheel speed at that moment was 19.4.

The first line it is real info at the moment
the second - is from previuos status message

25 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

At 30kph limit setting I see the following message in the log:
Titlback at speed 28.14 at limit 28.11 [0602CD6D988BFFFF]

When the battery level is below 40%, the maximum speed starts to decrease down to ~ 24 km/h at empty battery.

So, 28.11 is correct at the moment

25 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

If WheelLog is set to run in MPH the speed setting remains in KPH. Not a big deal but if the units aligned it would be more intuitive.

I was waiting for this claim   Maybe I will fix it, but not too fast. And what about values in logs?) 

[WARPed1701D]

7 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

Alert messages comes separately, and carry only the information that is in the alert col, all the other characteristics are taken from the last successful status message. You can see that the values with the alert are always the same as the previous ones. I haven't found another way to write alerts into the log without breaking the structure of the CSV file.Those, you should believe the values in the alert.

The first line it is real info at the moment
the second - is from previuos status message

When the battery level is below 40%, the maximum speed starts to decrease down to ~ 24 km/h at empty battery.

So, 28.11 is correct at the moment

I was waiting for this claim   Maybe I will fix it, but not too fast. And what about values in logs?) 

That's good to know regarding the messages. It is interesting to see all the wheel alerts (like tilt values when the kill switch is released).

I wasn't sure at what point the wheel started to reduce speeds as voltage fell. That explains the difference I was seeing and it looks like your speed setting works a treat. At least up to 30kph. I'll leave the >30kph testing to braver souls.

Yes the logs are also in kph for speed and km for distance but I recall that is a known issue with the app in general and not to do with your efforts enhancing it so I wasn't going to raise that with you. I also understand that the original app did not display the speed correctly in the live graph. Either the axis label was wrong or the data was not in the assigned units. I can't remember now. A post by @noisycarlos where he almost overleaned at speed raised the topic when he posted his live graph. At the time I didn't think I'd get to use WheelLog with my V8 so I didn't pay too much attention.

[who_the]

WOW! Just took a 7.8 mile night ride with the V8 unlocked to 35 kph. Amazing! I peaked at 31.4 kph briefly, but the wheel felt great, totally different without tiltback creeping in as I approached 30 kph. Felt steady over bumps, inclines, and uneven pavement at 30 kph. Lack of tiltback changes the equation. I had full gear and helmet on just in case. Of course, I always encourage full gear at speeds like this. But man. That was fun!

[Mono]

That's what I thought, people will get killed. When it will have happened, at least I can say that I told you so. And at least they had fun in the process. Not a big relief though, and even less so if it will be a teenager. I am slightly embarrassed though that nobody else seems to care, probably to be not confrontational.

[WARPed1701D]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

That's what I thought, people will get killed. When it will have happened, at least I can say that I told you so. And at least they had fun in the process. Not a big relief though, and even less so if it will be a teenager. I am slightly embarrassed though that nobody else seems to care, probably to be not confrontational.

Personally I agree with you that it is unwise to allow the wheel to exceed the manufacturer specified limit and there is no way on earth I would ride my V8 beyond 30kph. I've only hit the 30kph tiltback once and that was to test adjustment (within manufacturer specs) of the new tiltback speed setting in the app.

You know this off course but I'll state it anyway... The only thing that keeps you upright when road conditions become more adverse (increased grade, increased rolling resistance, a bump) at max speed is the ability of the wheel to tap into a usually unavailable power reserve. I've no desire to eat into that reserve and provide myself less safety at higher speeds. If I want to go faster I should buy a wheel specified to do so.

I've made it clear several times in this thread that I personally won't test the unlocked speed feature. I haven't spoken up against it specifically because opening Wheellog up to Inmotion wheels has been a huge bonus for me to be able to monitor the metrics of my wheel and understand what I put it through and what conditions push it to hard. Having this data actually increases my safety. I wish the option to exceed safe speed wasn't there but I don't feel in a position to complain given what I have gained from this extra development which I am very grateful for. I have also considered that wheellog is very much an enthusiast app and this won't be the first app tailored to enthusiasts that allows you to push the limit beyond that of a standard user. Also this version is not published publicly. It is an apk only downloadable here and most people here know more than a clueless rider may downloading from the Play store.

I've not tried to set the speed limit over the manufacturer limit but I would hope that if an attempt is made then the user receives a clear warning (that must be dismissed) that the risk of a crash significantly increases by doing so and this should be tailored to the wheel model and its specified top speed. As long as that is there then it becomes the informed users choice.

[Aatos]

I tried to test >30 km/h but it doesn't seem to work. Worse, it now seems locked at 25, slider in Inmotion app is grey when starting app.

@who_the, how does the slider behave in the wheellog app? I can set it but it reverts to 30 when sliding in/out settings or changing other settings such as turn light on.

I ride with motocross gear (helmet, large knee/shin protectors and body armor vest) plus wrist protectors at these speeds.

[US69]

52 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I've not tried to set the speed limit over the manufacturer limit but I would hope that if an attempt is made then the user receives a clear warning (that must be dismissed) that the risk of a crash significantly increases by doing so and this should be tailored to the wheel model and it's specified to speed. As long as that is there then it becomes the informed users choice.

That's a very good Suggestion!

As an former Software engineer, have to say i am not so much concerned about the Option to set the Speed higher alone.... If People use that, lays in everyones own Hand and responsibilty! Nobody HAS TO set the Speed higher.....it is still free choice!

But:I am more concerned that Inmotion has left that door open....For me that Shows that part of the Speed Regulation is done by the app alone (highest Speed), while some parts of the Regulation seams to be anchored in the wheel Firmware(Speed reducement when low Batterie), as it is not touched by palachzzz until now.

 I am fearing that perhaps Software-or Code faults, when highjacking the "highest Speed" by the app Software,could lead to other faults, software-Crash and so perhaps Hardware faults.

Also:The Darkness-Bot author and palachzzz seam to have a co-op and will try to sniff into the KingSong Speed Regulation also....i am interested if they get this to work. As far as i know, the Speed Regulation regarding high Speed AND batterie-reducement in Kingsongs are in the wheel-firmware and so should not be changeable by app. But time will tell.

If they got it to work....i would like to know some more how the changement has been done...otherwise i am on Mono's side, and will also not use Darkness or wheellog anymore.

[US69]

16 minutes ago, Aatos said:

I tried to test >30 km/h but it doesn't seem to work. Worse, it now seems locked at 25, slider in Inmotion app is grey when starting app.

@who_the, how does the slider behave in the wheellog app? I can set it but it reverts to 30 when sliding in/out settings or changing other settings such as turn light on.

I ride with motocross gear (helmet, large knee/shin protectors and body armor vest) plus wrist protectors at these speeds.

Perhaps it is the same as on Darkness Bot App:

 

Quote of the developer:

On V8 (tested on FM 1.0.9, 1.1.1) max speed is 35 kph configured by firmware. On FM 0.9.8 max speed is 30 kph

[WARPed1701D]

5 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Perhaps it is the same as on Darkness Bot App:

 

Quote of the developer:

On V8 (tested on FM 1.0.9, 1.1.1) max speed is 35 kph configured by firmware. On FM 0.9.8 max speed is 30 kph

If absolute max configurable tiltback speed were not restricted by the firmware I would be VERY dissapointed in Inmotion given their safety reputation. Along this line I would expect that the V5F should not allow the rider to configure a top tiltback speed of 35kph which must be at or very close to cutout speed for that wheel. I think I saw somewhere that the V5F refused to accept a much higher speed, either here or in the DarknessBot thread.

A firmware specified max tiltback speed does in some way suggest that the manufacturer left the door open to increased speed and that they tested the wheel to that normally unavailable upper limit and found it to be "safe" but maybe it was out of their comfort zone. There was talk of the V5F getting a bump to 30kph although it never happened and Inmotion management stated to Jason McNeil that they would not produce a >30kph wheel. Regardless, until Inmotion sanction wheel use at higher max speeds via official channels I will not be taking advantage of it and even then I feel 30kph is plenty fast enough for the V8...for me at least.

[WARPed1701D]

35 minutes ago, Aatos said:

I tried to test >30 km/h but it doesn't seem to work. Worse, it now seems locked at 25, slider in Inmotion app is grey when starting app.

@who_the, how does the slider behave in the wheellog app? I can set it but it reverts to 30 when sliding in/out settings or changing other settings such as turn light on.

I ride with motocross gear (helmet, large knee/shin protectors and body armor vest) plus wrist protectors at these speeds.

What wheel is this? V5? V5F? V8?

What firmware?

[Mono]

2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

I don't feel in a position to complain given what I have gained from this extra development which I am very grateful for

Think twice what that means. If I make you grateful to me, you won't "feel in the position to complain" if I'd threaten to kill someone.

2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

Also this version is not published publicly. It is an apk only downloadable here

By any reasonable means of the wording published publicly, being available in a public forum is exactly that. I grant on the positive side lack of advertisement. 

54 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

If absolute max configurable tiltback speed were not restricted by the firmware I would be VERY dissapointed in Inmotion given their safety reputation. Along this line I would expect that the V5F should not allow the rider to configure a top tiltback speed of 35kph which must be at or very close to cutout speed for that wheel.

I honestly don't see a meaningful difference between highjacking the app or highjacking the firmware. There is not much InMotion can do in either case. It remains in the responsibility of the highjacker, as this is not by any stretch of the meaning a typical or atypical or accidental usecase of the wheel. EDIT: OK, I grant that malicious highjacking of the firmware is probably much more difficult than malicious highjacking of the regular bluetooth data exchange.

[US69]

10 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

A firmware specified max tiltback speed does in some way suggest that the manufacturer left the door open to increased speed and that they tested the wheel to that normally unavailable upper limit and found it to be "safe" but maybe it was out of their comfort zone.

There is a "thinking error" in this Argument....

Inmotion does not Need to "leave a higher specified max speed door open" in their Firmware as  in their app....

Because on Inmotions you can also upgrade the Firmware....so if they "later" found a higher Speed to be acceptable...they can just deliver new Firmware!

(Which btw they promised to deliver new/faster firmware for the V5f+ in the beginning)....

 

So in fact IT IS a disapointment regarding saftety...

[Aatos]

25 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Perhaps it is the same as on Darkness Bot App:

 

Quote of the developer:

On V8 (tested on FM 1.0.9, 1.1.1) max speed is 35 kph configured by firmware. On FM 0.9.8 max speed is 30 kph

My V8 has firmware 0.9.825 according to Inmotion app 6.4.8. When trying to upgrade, it says it's the latest version already. I uninstalled the app and installed 6.4.5 but unfortunately it also says the firmware is the latest.

Any suggestions as how to update the firmware?

@WARPed1701D, for all vehicles safe speed depends on circumstances. Even if limited at 20 km/h there are circumstances in which overlean is possible on these wheels. I believe hard limits diminish users capability to think about safety themselves and instead they push the device hard against the limit.

Do you also think automobiles should be hard limited to a speed that's safe in 'all' circumstances?

I consider the limit of eucs a sort of cruise control. And of course given the unstable nature of these devices, I approach the physical limits very carefully.

[US69]

2 minutes ago, Aatos said:

I believe hard limits diminish users capability to think about safety themselves and instead they push the device hard against the limit.

Do you also think automobiles should be hard limited to a speed that's safe in 'all' circumstances?

I consider the limit of eucs a sort of cruise control. And of course given the unstable nature of these devices, I approach the physical limits very carefully.

hmmh...

If on a car the Motor shut's off, it just rolls on....If you Approach the physical Limits of an EUC.....on the End there is Faceplant. Thats a fine difference :-)

So yes, and as the "normal" user does not know, that an EUC just shuts off on a certain Speed, there is a responsibility by the manufacter, and so perhaps also on the developer of this app.

But it is that easy: When adjusting the Speed over 30kmh...just give a short "self responsive warning note" in the app and everything is fine....

And i guess @WARPed1701D does see it the same way or nearly similar....

[WARPed1701D]

7 minutes ago, Aatos said:

My V8 has firmware 0.9.825 according to Inmotion app 6.4.8. When trying to upgrade, it says it's the latest version already. I uninstalled the app and installed 6.4.5 but unfortunately it also says the firmware is the latest.

Any suggestions as how to update the firmware?

@WARPed1701D, for all vehicles safe speed depends on circumstances. Even if limited at 20 km/h there are circumstances in which overlean is possible on these wheels. I believe hard limits diminish users capability to think about safety themselves and instead they push the device hard against the limit.

Do you also think automobiles should be hard limited to a speed that's safe in 'all' circumstances?

I consider the limit of eucs a sort of cruise control. And of course given the unstable nature of these devices, I approach the physical limits very carefully.

If you have the official Inmotion app (I am also on 6.4.8) and you have registered your wheel correctly then I have no idea why you cannot get the latest version. I would contact Inmotion to ask them for assistance.

I'm well aware that circumstances dictate what a wheel can do and that even a limited wheel can be overleaned in an extreme scenario. I do think however that the manufacturer has a duty to ensure that on "reasonable" terrain a rider within weight specifications should not be able to ride a wheel to the point of 0 torque without some kind of enforced feedback. Ask YoshiSkySun how that worked out for him on his ACM recently.

[WARPed1701D]

2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

And i guess @WARPed1701D does see it the same way or nearly similar....

I do.

Users should be informed that what they are doing is abnormally increasing their risk. A blind adjustment beyond specified limits is not cool if the person doing it is unaware of the physics and dynamics of the wheel and what they are potentially opening themselves up to. I don't have my wheel today and have not tried setting a limit over 30kph so I don't know if this is present or not in the current version.

[WARPed1701D]

22 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

There is a "thinking error" in this Argument....

Inmotion does not Need to "leave a higher specified max speed door open" in their Firmware as  in their app....

Because on Inmotions you can also upgrade the Firmware....so if they "later" found a higher Speed to be acceptable...they can just deliver new Firmware!

(Which btw they promised to deliver new/faster firmware for the V5f+ in the beginning)....

 

So in fact IT IS a disapointment regarding saftety...

OK. I'll agree with this to a point.

From my IT perspective (as a user) I see firmware updates as something I prefer not to do too often due to the risk of bricking the wheel.

From Inmotion's perspective as the maufacturer I see the view that the fewer firmwares released for non critical fixes (a simple speed increase for example) the better as it is this code that keeps you balanced and safe while riding. Any firmware release (even one with only a very minor non-critical change) must undergo (or at least a reputable company should perform) rigorous testing post compilation to absolutely ensure nothing else has been unintentionally compromised. Following that train of thought I can see why they might test a wheel safely to 35kph during R&D and then set that in the firmware even if they don't provide access to it via their app because their current rules of "no wheel over 30kph"). If Inmotion decided to change its tune down the line to bump the speed up then a simple app update would officially open the option up to users without tinkering with the wheel's "brain".

[Aatos]

17 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

hmmh...

If on a car the Motor shut's off, it just rolls on....If you Approach the physical Limits of an EUC.....on the End there is Faceplant. Thats a fine difference :-)

So yes, and as the "normal" user does not know, that an EUC just shuts off on a certain Speed, there is a responsibility by the manufacter, and so perhaps also on the developer of this app.

But it is that easy: When adjusting the Speed over 30kmh...just give a short "self responsive warning note" in the app and everything is fine....

And i guess @WARPed1701D does see it the same way or nearly similar....

If you drive a car much too fast through a corner you will lose traction and may crash into oncoming traffic with the very real possibility of killing people. Like with any vehicle, one of the most important tasks for the user is adjusting speed to circumstances.

I stopped driving motorcycles because of the risk. It's often a question of perception really. The MX shop owner where I got my safety gear thought I was insane. When comparing to competitive MX racing, 30 or 40 km/h on a wheel with protection gear seems pretty safe to me though.

Again, I believe that hard limits promote the idea with novel users that the limit is safe for all circumstances, and that idea is particularly unsafe.

I'm all for warnings, but definitely not hard limits.

On topic, I'll contact Inmotion to check why the firmware won't update. I have official app and verified ownership.

[WARPed1701D]

36 minutes ago, Mono said:

Think twice what that means. If I make you grateful to me, you won't "feel in the position to complain" if I'd threaten to kill someone.

By any reasonable means of the wording published publicly, being available in a public forum is exactly that. I grant on the positive side lack of advertisement. 

I honestly don't see a meaningful difference between highjacking the app or highjacking the firmware. There is not much InMotion can do in either case. It remains in the responsibility of the highjacker, as this is not by any stretch of the meaning a typical or atypical or accidental usecase of the wheel.

I 100% see your point of view and I will without reservation openly state that I'm being a completely shallow and selfish hypocrite in this case especially given my emphasis on safety on this forum. I personally have gained safety by having access to data from my wheel and knowing how my ride style is handled by it. The over-speed setting will compromise safety for others who are ignorant to wheel limits. I will be the first person to tell the world I am not perfect and I'm not that proud of it either. I have no use for the increased speed setting and would rather the option to go beyond set limits were not there but will say though that If this app has a clear warning when setting any speed over and above the limit specified by the manufacturer for the specifically connected wheel then I would be OK with it being there.

While the app is publicly available, in the sense that it is on this forum, it is buried in a thread that has now discussed the merits of this setting at length. It isn't in the Google Play store where just anyone with no other information available could download and then proceed to kill themselves. Again if the app gains a dismissable warning that explicitly states what is being done and the significantly increased risk then I think the dev has done what he is morally responsibly expected to do for public release. At that point the user is no longer ignorant of what they are doing.

I think there is a significant difference between hacking an app and hacking a firmware. There is no way on this earth I would touch a non-official firmware for my wheel or any app that tries to hack an official firmware. The firmware is the wheel's brain and is the final word on what settings are permissible. As KingSong69 has already mentioned it appears the firmware has coded upper limits that cannot be exceeded by any app.

 

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Aatos said:

I believe hard limits diminish users capability to think about safety themselves and instead they push the device hard against the limit.

A large enough number of users will push against any limit, be it hard or soft or variable or reasonable or unreasonable. Relaxing the limit will in the majority of circumstances decrease safety. 

I can't even imagine that you seriously think that your "capability to think about safety yourself" is diminished by a hard speed limit. Please surprise me. My capability is certainly not diminished in this way. If anything, a speed limit is a gentle reminder to keep it safe in the heat of the moment.

[WARPed1701D]

16 hours ago, palachzzz said:

I was waiting for this claim   Maybe I will fix it, but not too fast. And what about values in logs?) 

I've now noticed that the previously existing speed settings for alerts and the dial range is also in KPH regardless of the user chosen unit so your new addition actually follows the current UI behavior.

[palachzzz]

First, what about Gotway, where you can disable tiltback at all? 
Second, before you a deep immersion in the discussion, I have a feeling that most of those who are here so favors for safety did not go to V8 at all, or not riding at speed about factory maximum 30.
What you think about why unlock to 35 in this and DarknessBot App?  Why not 40, 50, or 100? Because the firmware accept it. Not 40, not 36, but 35.

35 not very close to cut-off speed. Cut-off speed at fully charged battery is 43.5 km\h. At 20s3p battery it is about 49 km\h.
And some more. V8 has adaptive tiltback speed decreasing system. At 96% of battery it decreased to 33 km\h. You can see above top speed 31.4 km/h and began to argue that this would lead to the death of someone. Are you kidding? 1,5 km/h upper then factory accepted? It is about 5%, are you seriously thinking that V8 working with no 5% of reserve? Some people, fall down from Gotway at speed 45+, and all of them is alive.
And one more point. Some of those who unlocked say that it does not accelerate above 30. But I have some logs with speed above 30, and can decide that at speed under 23 km/h the EUC keep tilt angle not more then one degree. But at speed 26 it is 3 degree forward, at 28 - 6 degree, at 30 - 9 degree, at 34 - 15 degree. So, it is uncomfortable for most of users, and I think not many people will want to ride at 35 on V8. You can't reach this speed just because you overlook. But sometimes I realy need to go faster up to 32 without tiltback. 

Also, I think it is good opportunity for people who has 20s3p battery. 

I've added alert for unlocking speed, but it worked bad, so I removed it. My sources on github, everyone can add it, and I would say thank for it. As I described in my first post: I'm not real Android Developer, I'm have another kind of work.

My english not so good for I would actively discuss with you this topic.

[WARPed1701D]

53 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

First, what about Gotway, where you can disable tiltback at all? 
Second, before you a deep immersion in the discussion, I have a feeling that most of those who are here so favors for safety did not go to V8 at all, or not riding at speed about factory maximum 30.
What you think about why unlock to 35 in this and DarknessBot App?  Why not 40, 50, or 100? Because the firmware accept it. Not 40, not 36, but 35.

35 not very close to cut-off speed. Cut-off speed at fully charged battery is 43.5 km\h. At 20s3p battery it is about 49 km\h.
And some more. V8 has adaptive tiltback speed decreasing system. At 96% of battery it decreased to 33 km\h. You can see above top speed 31.4 km/h and began to argue that this would lead to the death of someone. Are you kidding? 1,5 km/h upper then factory accepted? It is about 5%, are you seriously thinking that V8 working with no 5% of reserve? Some people, fall down from Gotway at speed 45+, and all of them is alive.
And one more point. Some of those who unlocked say that it does not accelerate above 30. But I have some logs with speed above 30, and can decide that at speed under 23 km/h the EUC keep tilt angle not more then one degree. But at speed 26 it is 3 degree forward, at 28 - 6 degree, at 30 - 9 degree, at 34 - 15 degree. So, it is uncomfortable for most of users, and I think not many people will want to ride at 35 on V8. You can't reach this speed just because you overlook. But sometimes I realy need to go faster up to 32 without tiltback. 

Also, I think it is good opportunity for people who has 20s3p battery. 

I've added alert for unlocking speed, but it worked bad, so I removed it. My sources on github, everyone can add it, and I would say thank for it. As I described in my first post: I'm not real Android Developer, I'm have another kind of work.

My english not so good for I would actively discuss with you this topic.

Your english is better than my Russian!

You raise some good points about the other firmware induced protections in the wheel that essentially mean it will fight you to get to 35kph anyway.

As a self declared hypocrite who is very grateful to @palachzzz to have gained access to this tool and so increased insight into the inner workings of my Inmotion wheel as well as speed induced alerts on my phone/pebble (note that the V8 provides no speed alerts until tiltback begins whcih can in itself be scary) I'm going to bow out of the overspeed related discussion. Personally my riding is now safer for having the opportunity to use this great software to monitor my rides and gain real time readouts for speed, temperature, and battery along with speed alerts on my wristguard mounted pebble.

Also related to earlier feedback, I had no distance related data errors on my ride home last night so I think it was just a random bug that caused trip distance to log total distance and not Pebble related.

[US69]

1 hour ago, palachzzz said:

First, what about Gotway, where you can disable tiltback at all? 
Second, before you a deep immersion in the discussion, I have a feeling that most of those who are here so favors for safety did not go to V8 at all, or not riding at speed about factory maximum 30.
What you think about why unlock to 35 in this and DarknessBot App?  Why not 40, 50, or 100? Because the firmware accept it. Not 40, not 36, but 35.

35 not very close to cut-off speed. Cut-off speed at fully charged battery is 43.5 km\h. At 20s3p battery it is about 49 km\h.
And some more. V8 has adaptive tiltback speed decreasing system. At 96% of battery it decreased to 33 km\h. You can see above top speed 31.4 km/h and began to argue that this would lead to the death of someone. Are you kidding? 1,5 km/h upper then factory accepted? It is about 5%, are you seriously thinking that V8 working with no 5% of reserve? Some people, fall down from Gotway at speed 45+, and all of them is alive.
And one more point. Some of those who unlocked say that it does not accelerate above 30. But I have some logs with speed above 30, and can decide that at speed under 23 km/h the EUC keep tilt angle not more then one degree. But at speed 26 it is 3 degree forward, at 28 - 6 degree, at 30 - 9 degree, at 34 - 15 degree. So, it is uncomfortable for most of users, and I think not many people will want to ride at 35 on V8. You can't reach this speed just because you overlook. But sometimes I realy need to go faster up to 32 without tiltback. 

Also, I think it is good opportunity for people who has 20s3p battery. 

I've added alert for unlocking speed, but it worked bad, so I removed it. My sources on github, everyone can add it, and I would say thank for it. As I described in my first post: I'm not real Android Developer, I'm have another kind of work.

My english not so good for I would actively discuss with you this topic.

Stay Cool ;-)

Good work, awaiting your next throws on Kingsongs...

To give some -constructiv- review and say perhaps a "responsible on own" note is not that bad discussion, or? And you are totally right, actually my wheels are KS18S and V3 which can do both 40 or more easy :-)

I was more interested to know if this was a app or Firmware hack......i had nothing against that "hack" at all!

So Keep on going!