WheelLog for Inmotion - Development

[palachzzz]

1 hour ago, Kingtide said:

Initial results of my testing so far: 

Display and graph functions work flawlessly. Really nice to see the two temperatures! However, when I start logging, the app crashes. No idea why this happens. I had no GPS lock - could this be a reason? 

 

 

I tested now, you need to enable "Log location" in menu. In some reason it crashes if that option is disabled.

[palachzzz]

New version:
FIX:
- Excessive logging, now the logs files 7-10 times smaller

Add:
- Wheel mode in second tab, and in log
- Model, Version and Serial number in second tab.

 

[WARPed1701D]

Used this for my first big ride today and it worked excellently. A few crashes after the ride (maybe turned the wheel off without disconnecting) but during the ride it logged perfectly. I can't thank you enough @palachzzz for adapting this to Inmotion wheels.

Also thanks to @JumpMaster for the original app and @Cedric Hauber for his intermediate work.

[WARPed1701D]

30 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Started 8:37 AM

Ended 9:06 AM (erm late!)
Conditions: 86F (30C), Feels Like 97F (36C), Humidity 74% (WTF!)

Total distance: 8.74 km
Max Speed: 20.37 kph (tiltback currently set to 20 kph)
Average Speed: 15.53 kph
Start Voltage: 84.24v, 100%
End Voltage: 80.73v, 87%
Max Wheel Temp: 37C

Here are some graphs of the journey. One peak on the power chart exceeded the Y axis boundary (7km into the charts). It went up to 1200W briefly. This was just after I pushed off of a lamp post I had been using to support me waiting for a crosswalk signal and I lost balance a little as I got started causing a sudden movement that the wheel compensated for by exceeding nominal output.

<snip>

Huge thanks to @palachzzz for producing a version of WheelLog for InMotion wheels. Being an Android user I was pained that I would miss out on detailed metrics and wonderfully this version appeared right before I was about to start using my wheel in earnest.

 

Here are the charts from my ride. Made quickly in Excel from the csv.

[Jason McNeil]

@palachzzz or other mobile Developer, if you can figure out how to incorporate the set functions (unlock, calibration, lights, etc) on King Songs, I'd like to help sponsor the work effort involved. 

KS have had quite enough time to develop their own App to the minimum required App standard level...

[WARPed1701D]

23 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

@palachzzz or other mobile Developer, if you can figure out how to incorporate the set functions (unlock, calibration, lights, etc) on King Songs, I'd like to help sponsor the work effort involved. 

KS have had quite enough time to develop their own App to the minimum required App standard level...

I'd be up for that but I'm still learning mobile, despite being an desktop and web app developer for the USGS. Be sure to repeat this offer in the main forum. This thread is under the Inmotion specific forum so won't get much exposure.

That said when my skills are sufficient I do intend to write my own logging app for all mobile platforms. I'll start with Inmotion wheel compatibility as that is what I have. If it goes well then I may have to invest in a KingSong. Someone will have to donate a GotWay when the time comes. I'm not buying one of them for a long time until I see some safety improvements.

[US69]

44 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

@palachzzz or other mobile Developer, if you can figure out how to incorporate the set functions (unlock, calibration, lights, etc) on King Songs, I'd like to help sponsor the work effort involved. 

KS have had quite enough time to develop their own App to the minimum required App standard level...

Sorry, but that i dont understand even just a bit...

From all "producer" apps...the KS app is the stablest and best. (ok, for Inmotion i can only speak about hearsay, but KS is better than Rockwheel, ips, and Hotway). Offering unlocks, wheel and light adjustment, firmware upgradability and working stable. All that is missing are statistics and graphs over the 3rd party apps.

I really would like to have that explained...

cause if you would have said Gotway app is crap i would have understand that, as they have an "new" app where the people are not able to log in, unstable connection, forgetting settings and not even showing what your settings are and where all users are prompted to use the old app as it is common sense in the community that this new one is crap! the old just has speed and batterie and nothing else, but still better than the new :-)

[Jason McNeil]

19 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Sorry, but that i dont understand even just a bit...

Really? Maybe not in terms of features, but my criticism is that these features are poorly implemented through the [cr]App; here's an incomplete list just off the top of my head:

1. Terrible GUI design
2. Needs to be re-Englished
3. Location Permission during install
4. Why not filter BT devices based on MAC prefix to limit results?
5. Latency with connecting to Wheel
6. Speed unlocking, not clear what value limits one can use for a particular model; when it doesn't accept specific value, resets to default. 
7. Estimated range does not take into account 840Wh/1680Wh capacities
8. Main screen lacks important valuable info like Watts/Volts
9. App instability on Android
10. Lacks context sensitive feature set: should only display feature settings that a particular Wheel supports
11. No App auto-updating

[US69]

Just now, Jason McNeil said:

Really? Ok, here's an incomplete list just off the top of my head:

1. Terrible GUI design
2. Needs to be re-Englished
3. Location Permission during install
4. Why not filter BT devices based on MAC prefix to limit results?
5. Latency with connecting to Wheel
6. Speed unlocking, not clear what value limits one can use for a particular model; when it doesn't accept specific value, resets to default. 
7. Estimated range does not take into account 840Wh/1680Wh capacities
8. Main screen lacks important valuable info like Watts/Volts
9. App instability on Android
10. Lacks context sensitive feature set: should only display feature settings that a particular Wheel supports
11. No App auto-updating

Really, Jason, all in comparing to other producer app, points 1-5 and 9-11 are things which you have all other producer apps also, partly it is not KS fault because its android based and once connected, all fine.

So lets stay on the KS specific things:

Point 6: yeah, really to blame, as KS is one of the few apps where you can set the speed beeps whereever  you want to...instead of fixed values for the alarms.And: there are instructions written how to set the values, direct underneath the speed settings. And surprise: You can at least SEE what your settings are, instead of the GW app, where you just cant even that after setting them, you have to guess what your actual settings are:-)

Point 7: Defintly not true, app is reading the batterie capacity out of the first 2-3 numbers after the wheel version in the serialnumber. If you want to go into detail, i can explain it a bit longer..... and Yip, there is a fault in the moment on the brand new 18S, only adjusted for 840wh. Again: Other brands dont have "estimated range"

Point 8 is the only one where i would say yes, i miss this also! (while its still seeable under batterie infos btw)

Some positives:

Firmware upgrade ability...not opening 50+ wheels like on the GW session with a special BT tool...;-)

Speed unlocking, good feature for restricted countries 

Again, on all the wheels i had the Ks app is more on the stable side than that from the competitors, and when i see what GW has produced with its new social app, which NOBODY wants to use and CAN use without internet connection....its just a mystery for me how to pick out this app...

 No question that i would also prefer wheellog or gyrometrics  over EVERY producer app if they would allow to choose the settings, they are just better looking and working...

But its that easy: while i use the KS app on my 18S....i never use the GW app on my V3....as THIS is the real userhell :-)

 

Aaah: Latest announcement for the new KS app: End of August, short after a big fair convention. Like Duke Nukem....

 

 

 

 

[Jason McNeil]

2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

its just a mystery for me how to pick out this app...

Mainly because this is a brand who's hardware I want to continue offering & improve .

On the other hand, have some strong reservations about expanding/promoting/investing in GW, until there's a clear demonstration that there's a willingness to dramatically improve things from within the company. 

[houseofjob]

@Jason McNeil the EUC game needs new blood, for sure, as a GW equalizer.

These Uno Bolt guys have the right idea (super wide tire!), right price point, with social / marketing push to boot for their Kickstarter, but someone needs to convince them to make that handle optional.

[eddiemoy]

37 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@Jason McNeil the EUC game needs new blood, for sure, as a GW equalizer.

These Uno Bolt guys have the right idea (super wide tire!), right price point, with social / marketing push to boot for their Kickstarter, but someone needs to convince them to make that handle optional.

Yeh, the handle is there to make people more comfortable trying to learn?  It is also a bad form factor, too big.  I can imagine the big wheel only good for offroad or beaches.  Can you imagine bringing that everywhere?

[Rehab1]

34 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

These Uno Bolt guys have the right idea (super wide tire!), right price point, with social / marketing push to boot for their Kickstarter, but someone needs to convince them to make that handle optional.

They do have a great idea but 'woah cowboy' my thighs would be killing me spread that far apart trying to grip onto this beast without a handle!

 

[houseofjob]

15 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Yeh, the handle is there to make people more comfortable trying to learn?

They mean it to be a gyro-scooter. There are Chinese versions on the market right now, some being driven in France I've heard.

 

15 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

It is also a bad form factor, too big.  I can imagine the big wheel only good for offroad or beaches.  Can you imagine bringing that everywhere?

Meh, if they lost the handle, or made the handle retractable, it'd be fine.

I bring the Monster most anywhere and everywhere in the city that's elevator/escalator-accessible, and this thing is a smaller wheel at 18", plus lighter at 45 lbs.

 

15 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

They do have a great idea but 'woah cowboy' my thighs would be killing me spread that far apart trying to grip onto this beast without a handle!

I'm down for the challenge! Must be so smooth for bumps at 10" wide, not unlike how smooth a OneWheel is.

Retractable handle would be key though: optional for driving, plus serve as a pull-able trolley handle.

[eddiemoy]

7 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

They mean it to be a gyro-scooter. There are Chinese versions on the market right now, some being driven in France I've heard.

 

Meh, if they lost the handle, or made the handle retractable, it'd be fine.

I bring the Monster most anywhere and everywhere in the city that's elevator-accessible, and this thing is a smaller wheel at 18", plus lighter at 45 lbs.

 

I'm down for the challenge! Must be so smooth for bumps at 10" wide, not unlike how smooth a OneWheel is.

Retractable handle would be key though: optional for driving, plus serve as a pull-able trolley handle.

this is much wider and awkward than the monster.  I think they they mention gyro-scooter, it means that it is self balancing forward and backwards.  I don't think they mean it balance you side to side.  so it is just fancy speak for what we are riding today.  i've only seen one gyro bike and no way they put a actual gryo in this thing to keep it from falling left and right.

you are talking about this on ebay?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gyro-electric-Commuter-Transporter-One-Wheel-Electric-Unibike-Unicycle-OneWheel-/372032793052?hash=item569ee1e9dc:g:N4YAAOSw4DJYmfDf

"A rider controls side-to-side balance and turning with subtle leaning."

[houseofjob]

@eddiemoy no, never thought anything balances it left-and-right. If anything, the width and flat-ish tire might ease that.

I really just want someone to go super-wide like this on an EUC, not unlike Joey Serrin's Sherpa, essential IMHO for the crappy, pot-hole-infested NYC streets.

[WARPed1701D]

Had trouble getting the app to work for my return journey today. Connects to the wheel and logging starts but nothing updates on the screen, or it only updates once every so often. It could be my phone though. Still need to check the csv to see if any data made it that far. Tried clearing cached app data but didn't help.

[Chriull]

17 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

@palachzzz or other mobile Developer, if you can figure out how to incorporate the set functions (unlock, calibration, lights, etc) on King Songs, I'd like to help sponsor the work effort involved. 

KS have had quite enough time to develop their own App to the minimum required App standard level...

Set functions should be quite "easy" to implement - the original KS apk can be decompiled. So everyone has access to the java source code and can have a look at the communication protocol.

Just testing of this set function, especially things like firmware update is a bit risky maybe - there is always the chance to brick the wheel while one is testing.

The "main problem" of wheellog by now is imho the bluetooth communication - there is some fault in it:

5 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

Had trouble getting the app to work for my return journey today. Connects to the wheel and logging starts but nothing updates on the screen, or it only updates once every so often. It could be my phone though. Still need to check the csv to see if any data made it that far. Tried clearing cached app data but didn't help.

If this is not an initial permission prob this could be the same like it is experienced with the KS wheels (starting from firmware 1.25?) - wheellog only gets data if there was a connection with the original KS app shortly before! Imho this was also mentioned for Inmotion wheels in this thread somewhere?

Read also something like this for the newer GW wheels?
I alread tried to look at the source code, but could not find anything obvious - i'd maybe rewrite the bluetooth connection code once if i find time and "passion"...

15 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

...

Point 7: Defintly not true, app is reading the batterie capacity out of the first 2-3 numbers after the wheel version in the serialnumber. If you want to go into detail, i can explain it a bit longer..... and Yip, there is a fault in the moment on the brand new 18S, only adjusted for 840wh. Again: Other brands dont have "estimated range"

You have a link (or details) to this encoding? Would be interesting!

 

17 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

...

One peak on the power chart exceeded the Y axis boundary (7km into the charts). It went up to 1200W briefly. This was just after I pushed off of a lamp post I had been using to support me waiting for a crosswalk signal and I lost balance a little as I got started causing a sudden movement that the wheel compensated for by exceeding nominal output.

The power values shown are not valid since the wheel just sends battery voltage and motor current, but not the motor voltage! So the difference between shown and real power gets bigger the lower the speed (load) is!

See 

for more details.

[Mono]

6 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

Had trouble getting the app to work for my return journey today. Connects to the wheel and logging starts but nothing updates on the screen, or it only updates once every so often. It could be my phone though. Still need to check the csv to see if any data made it that far. Tried clearing cached app data but didn't help.

Have had a similar problem. My V8 drops the connection quite often also on the InMotion app, but at some point I couldn't connect at all to the Wheellog anymore. Is there a reconnect button in the Wheelog app?

[Mono]

57 minutes ago, Chriull said:

The power values shown are not valid since the wheel just sends battery voltage and motor current, but not the motor voltage! So the difference between shown and real power gets bigger the lower the speed (load) is!

The question is whether you want to display consumed power or delivered power. It seems that the former can be measured at the battery level as voltage times current, while the latter is measured as speed times torque, where torque is proportional to current. So it would probably make a lot of sense to show both (or display efficiency). 

[Chriull]

29 minutes ago, Mono said:

The question is whether you want to display consumed power or delivered power. It seems that the former can be measured at the battery level as voltage times current, while the latter is measured as speed times torque, where torque is proportional to current. So it would probably make a lot of sense to show both (or display efficiency). 

Any of the two or both would make sense - but by now the apps multiply the current of one and the voltage ofthe other - and this makes no sense! (Just for 100% duty cycle)

[Mono]

41 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Any of the two or both would make sense - but by now the apps multiply the current of one and the voltage ofthe other - and this makes no sense! (Just for 100% duty cycle)

I would have thought that the current at motor and battery level are not that much different?

[Chriull]

41 minutes ago, Mono said:

I would have thought that the current at motor and battery level are not that much different?

They can be quite different.

you can for instance make a chart from some logged date and draw speed times current ( proportional to output power) vs  motor current times battery voltage. You will see quite some difference (the slower (lower duty cycle), the bigger)

3 hours ago, Chriull said:

See 

for more details.

 

[Mono]

24 minutes ago, Chriull said:

They can be quite different.

you can for instance make a chart from some logged date and draw speed times current ( proportional to output power) vs  motor current times battery voltage. You will see quite some difference (the slower (lower duty cycle), the bigger)

Of course, but to my understanding the difference (which seems perfectly legit) comes mainly from taking into account speed in one case but not in the other. That difference will increase with decreasing the speed close to zero.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Of course, but to my understanding the difference (which seems perfectly legit) comes mainly from taking into account speed in one case but not in the other. That difference will increase with decreasing the speed close to zero.

i am taking output power into account - speed just happens to be a main factor of the output power.

But we got quite offtopic here - in the other topic are the details to discuss it without speculations.