KS16 first impressions: Awesome dealer; still serious product reservations

[HEC]

5 hours ago, MaxLinux said:

What in the world? I think we've seen that in the EUC community, the KS16 is regarded as a top-tier wheel. I'm pretty sure if KS16 owners were surveyed, none besides ErikT would call it "crap." As far as I know, 0 reviewers have called it "crap."

Well - at least one did  :

 

[Cloud]

@ErikT i dont think anyone is trying to offend you. @xoltri's post was actually very friendly and he probably just assumed that you are not an engineer, and he certainly didnt accuse you of that. There is no shame in not being an engineer, and as such, one cannot be accused of that. @KingSong69 simply expressed his differing opinion and if he failed to see some of your points doesnt make his statements ignorant.

i believe that your assessment of the wheel's issues is adequate but it's a bit pessimistic as opposed to the somewhat optimistic approach from many other riders who choose to appreciate the dramatic improvements in the wheel's performance and riding experience.

also, if something is "crap", but its the best crap there is , which you seem to agree with, then calling it " crap" sends out the wrong message and is perceived inadequately. " Crap" is not an absolute category - it is relative to what else is out there. All other wheels being worse make KS 16 a pretty good wheel  

whats most important in the wheel is how it rides , how comfortable it is to ride and how safe it is in terms of the power cut out. All other things like trolley handle, lights, music, etc are auxilary and secondary to the main purpose of the wheel. This is why many forumers consider it a good wheel compared to many other wheels, as it performs well and is relatively safe. Also ks16 is packed with these auxiliary features, however imperfect they are, as opposed to the majority of the other eucs out there that dont have them at all

[US69]

5 hours ago, ErikT said:

Hmm. Interesting community here. Thanks, @Cloud for the sober response.

@kingsong69, I think you're missing my point completely. To suggest I'm "buying the Porsche just for the look...and not for the driving!" after I just detailed a number of driving-related objections, including an opinion that the focus on "bling" (decorative LEDs) is misplaced... Frankly, sir, that's pretty ignorant. Not quite as ignorant as to say that "As far as I know 0 reviewers have called it crap" in direct response to a review calling it crap, but pretty close! My point, and I think it was entirely clear, is that newcomers should take to heart that this is a nascent industry, and the "Porsche of EUCs" doesn't exist yet, regardless of whether your yardstick is the driving or the look. The trolley handle may very well be the "best on an EUC ever!", and I don't doubt that it is. But that doesn't change the fact that it's very poorly engineered. Without realizing it, you're in violent agreement with my fundamental assertion: This market is in its infancy, and CRAP like the KS16 trolley handle are perceived as wonderful innovations because they're the best ever yet, in a nascent cottage industry that has yet to deliver quality in a meaningful way.

@xoltri, please speak for yourself before making comments like "neither you nor I are engineers". I did acknowledge that my own engineering background is not in PWM motor control circuitry in specific, but I am most assuredly an experienced engineer, and am sufficiently versed in current MOSFET and PWM technologies to comment intelligently that the PWM whine is unnecessary. I'm considerably more knowledgeable about embedded hardware and software systems, and my opinion criticizing inability to program the desired power-on state of the headlamp is well informed by cognizance of persistent storage capabilities of current FLASH-enabled MCUs in contrast to the PROM/NVRAM-based microprocessor control systems of yesteryear. If you're going to accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about when it comes to engineering aspects of all this, please be prepared to support your allegations with informed arguments.

EUCs are a freaking awesome invention, and I anxiously await the day that we see some that truly are not crap enter the market. As I have already acknowledged several times now, I get it - the KS16 is the state of the art and the best of the best in the context of the 2016 EUC market. I feel sorry for the majority here who fail to see that for what it truly is: an indication that the EUC market has a long way to go, as opposed to the very badly flawed but commonplace perception that the KS16 is as good as it could be. It's not. It's crap, but it's the best we have, and I'm delighted to have upgraded from Airwheel (total crap) to something better, even if only a little better.

I hope some young ambitious entrepreneurs will seize the excellent opportunity to build something that's not crap. This market needs it. Meanwhile I'm sorry to those of you who take offense at me calling a spade a spade.

It's such a pity that the end-user love affair with the best of the best so far, even when it's total CRAP, prevents us from looking forward and collaborating on ideas that might actually advance this industry. Consider this: There are plenty of Bluetooth-on-chip MCUs on the market. I believe there are also MCUs with peizo rate sensors onboard. I'm not sure whether there are MCUs with both bluetooth and peizo rate sensors, but my guess is there are. If you guys weren't so determined to defend your beloved KS16 and berate me for calling it 'crap', which it is, we might instead be spending our energy discussing ideas such as a helmet-mounted head gesture sensor (based on the aforementioned bluetooth/peizo MCU, assuming one exists) that allows the rider to send commands to the wheel via head nods, without having to interface with a smartphone. That discussion might even lead to the 'engineers' who design this stuff learning something from our discussion, and carrying our ideas forward into implementation. But no, instead we have to spend our energy having @xoltri accuse me of "not being an engineer". Whatever, dude, I give up!

Erik

 

   

You are talking about how much energy to put in this discussion?

Better than writing million words "reviews" ....you should have spent just one percent of this "energy" in looking at even one photo of the KS16.... then you would not have to whine about LEDs that you "can not put into garbage and make this wheel a childish toy"....or about where the sidepads are placed! (and btw.: NO, You don NOT have to turn the Leds on to see the batterie level, again, batterie level is always displayed)...

All this energy could have been saved, if you instead of writing this saga, would have read just one review for example here in the forum

Also i did not found "a number of driving-related objections" in your last statement, perhaps we got a different sight of what is "driving related"...for me it is not how to move my wheel with the trolley :-)

But in the end i agree....i better put my energy somewhere else....

 

[ErikT]

I seem to be offending people here with my style, and I certainly don't want to continue doing that. So I'm going to refrain from posting further on this subject. My apologies to anyone who took offense at my admittedly critical style.

I leave you with my favorite quote, which I used to have hung up on the wall when I ran an engineering department:

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernanrd Shaw

Happy wheeling everyone,

Erik

 

[Xoltri]

13 hours ago, ErikT said:

 

Happy wheeling everyone,

Erik

 

Thanks for the self introspection. Happy wheeling to you too!  When you find the wheel of your dreams, be sure to post a review.

[HermanTheGerman]

Erik, with all due respect, but we are at the beginning of the technology here, the same as with Tesla cars.

You sounded to me a little bit like some Tesla critics, who believed 10 years ago that electric cars can't thrive, and don't want to give up this believe.

I understand some of your points, of course the body could be made of carbon, and other things could be enhanced, but this will make the thing a lot more expensive.

Give all the ewheel companies some time to bring out better wheels, but now at the moment we all are at the (b)leading edge.

I as a 57 year old rode my KS16 more than 600 km in the last 6 weeks, and I'm really very happy with it. Currently it is one of the best wheels on the market, with one of the best ranges and driving properties, from my point of view.  I rode it on gravel roads, asphalt, up and down steep hills, and it worked very well all the time, I could not complain about anything.   Maybe the trolley handle is a little bit weak, but I still carried it with the handle expanded, and also had no problems with that (carrying it cautiously). But all this is secondary to me, the primary advantages are the range and the driving properties, and if these would be not great, I could not ride 40 km or more at once, as I do several times a week.