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gotway msuper3 1600wh


Jane Mo

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Just got a message from ali saying my item is shipping. So I guess im getting the 1600wh after all. Im hoping to have it in the next couple weeks. lets see what happens, Im hoping for the best and planning for the worst. The only good thing I can take from ordering from ali is in the event that the unit comes DOA or with problems I have some recourse with ALI so that is a good thing. I'll keep everyone posted.

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16 minutes ago, Donafello said:

Just got a message from ali saying my item is shipping. So I guess im getting the 1600wh after all. Im hoping to have it in the next couple weeks. lets see what happens, Im hoping for the best and planning for the worst. The only good thing I can take from ordering from ali is in the event that the unit comes DOA or with problems I have some recourse with ALI so that is a good thing. I'll keep everyone posted.

congrats that it is shipping

can't wait to see how it all works out for you

i DO understand the "hoping for the best/planning for the worst" mentality.... hopefully the FORMER will be YOUR reality

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35 minutes ago, Donafello said:

Just got a message from ali saying my item is shipping. So I guess im getting the 1600wh after all

Do you mean 1640? Chinese reseller would not have access  to 1600 version ... :unsure:

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1 hour ago, HEC said:

Do you mean 1640? Chinese reseller would not have access  to 1600 version ... :unsure:

When it is shipped today, i also think that it is more likely the 1640wh Version, because when it has shipped today means that it is since 4-5 days in the Hand of reseller/shipper...

And as the 1600wh was just anounced 3 days ago, and that only for overseas, not for chinese.....But we will now in about 10-12 days :-)

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

When it is shipped today, i also think that it is more likely the 1640wh Version, because when it has shipped today means that it is since 4-5 days in the Hand of reseller/shipper...

And as the 1600wh was just anounced 3 days ago, and that only for overseas, not for chinese.....But we will now in about 10-12 days :-)

i cannot wait to find out which one arrives..... very exciting

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On 9/18/2016 at 6:31 PM, Donafello said:

Also this would be what Lin told me a couple weeks ago that the 1600wh is only for overseas market. But my question is why make a different unit for 2 different markets

I guess that this 84v is related to Rockwheel's new 16" board. 

In Aug. RockWheel did a crowd funding to raise money to build 200 new 16" EUCs with 84v/ 20s battery.  RW does not have much presence outside of China. GW and RW may decide to share the cost of the development of the board,  and their agreement may be that RW do it for Chinese market and GW will use it for oversea market. According to RW's promise, the board will use bigger MOS for upto 180A. ( so it is 180A*80V = 8*1800W? I doubt ). RW expect to deliver in Nov. 

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12 minutes ago, EUCMania said:

I guess that this 84v is related to Rockwheel's new 16" board. 

In Aug. RockWheel did a crowd funding to raise money to build 200 new 16" EUCs with 84v/ 20s battery.  RW does not have much presence outside of China. GW and RW may decide to share the cost of the development of the board,  and their agreement may be that RW do it for Chinese market and GW will use it for oversea market. According to RW's promise, the board will use bigger MOS for upto 180A. ( so it is 180A*80V = 8*1800W? I doubt ). RW expect to deliver in Nov. 

that is very interesting

i appreciate that information

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23 hours ago, HEC said:

Do you mean 1640? Chinese reseller would not have access  to 1600 version ... :unsure:

I have made clear that I want the 1600wh and the seller promises me that if the unit I receive is not the 1600wh then he will give me a full refund. And this is recorded on the chat between me and him. Also he promises the unit and battery get shipped together. I messaged him today and he said that I should have unit in 15-20days from now and it will be shipped together as I requested.  This was one of the reasons I went this route of purchasing because they would prob have a lot more flexibility to bend the rules a little.anyway this is all a guess right now and I will update everyone accordingly 

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4 minutes ago, Donafello said:

This was one of the reasons I went this route of purchasing because they would prob have a lot more flexibility to bend the rules a little.anyway this is all a guess right now and I will update everyone accordingly 

Well - the 1600 models were not even released by GW at the time of the shipping and as those are only export models they'll be unavailable to local Chinese sellers.

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1 minute ago, Donafello said:

How do you know they were not released yet? And if I dont get the unit I want then I get my money back. No harm done

For example here (also mentioned in another threads here):

 

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26 minutes ago, HEC said:

For example here (also mentioned in another threads here):

 

Yeah but that can mean a bunch of different things. Im sure he's ordering a bunch of units so maybe they are telling him that. Why would the seller, who has a perfect rating, put himself in that situation. everything me and him spoke about is recorded and he has said that if the unit is not a 1600wh 84v and if it ships without the batteries installed then I can have a full refund and he would cover return shipping. I verified through the website that these things are recoded and looked at if there is a problem. So let's kick the negativity to the curb and be positive;) and worse case scenario is I lose $2,000. Thats not going to kill me and life will go on and I will just order another one until I get what I want

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40 minutes ago, Donafello said:

I have made clear that I want the 1600wh and the seller promises me that if the unit I receive is not the 1600wh then he will give me a full refund. And this is recorded on the chat between me and him. Also he promises the unit and battery get shipped together. I messaged him today and he said that I should have unit in 15-20days from now and it will be shipped together as I requested.  This was one of the reasons I went this route of purchasing because they would prob have a lot more flexibility to bend the rules a little.anyway this is all a guess right now and I will update everyone accordingly 

this is great news

can't wait until you receive it and tell us your impressions

7 minutes ago, Donafello said:

So let's kick the negativity to the curb and be positive;) 

Amen to that

it truly is exciting to be riding the crest of a wave into the future of personal transport

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34 minutes ago, HEC said:

For example here (also mentioned in another threads here):

 

I will be sure to let everyone know exactly how it turns out no matter what happens. I will try and do a unboxing as soon as I get the unit so we can all see together what I got. I will upload to youtube

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23 hours ago, Greg Spalding said:

that is very interesting

i appreciate that information

The main words in this are " i guess..." as i hear this for the first time :-)

2 hours ago, Donafello said:

I have made clear that I want the 1600wh and the seller promises me that if the unit I receive is not the 1600wh then he will give me a full refund. And this is recorded on the chat between me and him. Also he promises the unit and battery get shipped together. I messaged him today and he said that I should have unit in 15-20days from now and it will be shipped together as I requested.  This was one of the reasons I went this route of purchasing because they would prob have a lot more flexibility to bend the rules a little.anyway this is all a guess right now and I will update everyone accordingly 

Everything OK! :-) "Rockwheel" Shop will do what he says...we were just speculating and didn't know your exact order :-)

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10 hours ago, Donafello said:

So let's kick the negativity to the curb and be positive;)

It's more about sparing you of disappointment than "negativity" ... I really do wish that you'll receive the 1600 / 84V as (despite it's many shortcomings and uncertain / unconfirmed specs.) I would consider getting one too ...

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On 20.9.2016 at 6:03 PM, EUCMania said:

I guess that this 84v is related to Rockwheel's new 16" board. 

In Aug. RockWheel did a crowd funding to raise money to build 200 new 16" EUCs with 84v/ 20s battery.  RW does not have much presence outside of China. GW and RW may decide to share the cost of the development of the board,  and their agreement may be that RW do it for Chinese market and GW will use it for oversea market. According to RW's promise, the board will use bigger MOS for upto 180A. ( so it is 180A*80V = 8*1800W? I doubt ). RW expect to deliver in Nov. 

The problem with the TO-220 mosfet amperages is that the "silicon limited" -values reported in the datasheets are theoretical; they assume an "infinite heatsink" (ie. so large heatsink that the temperature never rises above ambient) and don't take into account the package limitations (around 75A continuous is generally "agreed" as maximum for TO-220).

MOSFET Die: What is the difference between Silicon Limited Current and Package Limited Current of IRF2804?

Answer ID 705  |   Updated 03/07/2012 04:01 PM

Question

What is the difference between Silicon Limited Current and Package Limited Current of IRF2804?

Answer

First of all, the silicon limited current means the maximum current which can be drawn from the die.
For instance, if the Silicon limited current is 100A, it means the maximum current drawn from the die is 100A.
 
Secondly, package limited current means the allowable current value which the package can handle by itself.
For instance, if the product shows 100A of silicon limited current and 75A of package limited current, then the product can be used only up to 75A.
 
You may have a question at this point why the silicon limited current and package limited current are different.
For the higher silicon limited current, the bigger size of die needs to be used. So, it is expected that it improves Rds(on) value of the product and other performances.
This is the reason why the silicon limited current needs to be higher.
 
Please consider the package limited current rather than the silicon limited current when you are considering devices for your design.

http://irf.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/705

 

HEXFET® MOSFET package current limits

Answer ID 373  |   Updated 04/08/2009 12:43 AM

Question

IRF3205 has a TO-220AB package. This device is rated at 110 amps. How is it possible that this package type will conduct 110 amps of current. It looks small to us and the 3 leads look too small to handle 110 amps.

Answer

The value on page 1 of the data sheet has a "5" asterix against it. Footnote #5 says package limitation is 75A. 

The 100A figure results from the industry standard way of defining silicon current limit by reference to an infinite heatsink, that is junction temperature is at 25C ambient temperature. Older generations of silicon had conduction properties that were inferior to copper, so with older type devices the silicon determined the conduction limit not the package type. The current generation of low Rds silicon is a more efficient conductor than copper. As a particular die is used in more than one package style we state the silicon limit as a common characteristic, again using the industry standard. Designers can then use the standard thermal equilibrium equation, which includes the Rds value, current through the part and the thermal resistances of the package and any heatsink, to determine the maximum junction temperature that will occur in their application. The actual current limit for a given package depends on what current density and therefore what voltage drop and heating in the leads and frame a designer is willing to accept. Any heat generated in the leadouts and the leadframe will heat the silicon die, increase its Rdson value and thus increase its conduction losses for a given constant current value. Generally 75A is accepted as the practical limit for TO-220.

http://irf.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/373/

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4 minutes ago, EUCMania said:

The MOS package RW promised to use is 247 packaged MOS. I do not know what that means.

AFAIK, TO-247 is a more "heavy duty" version of TO-220 and should be capable of dissipating more heat (which should mean higher maximum amperage, at least in theory).

Haven't studied them further, as I've seen numerous warnings not to buy anything TO-247 -encased from China, because most of them are fakes (and I get 99% of my components from Aliexpress) :P   Not meaning that RW/Gotway would use fakes, but the stuff that is sold to hobbyists buying small lots from overseas ;)

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Looks like Gotway has shown this year a great performance in engineering. Looking forward if they manage to run this different MOSFETs. As with all new things I'more a early follower or even more later one. Higher the voltage will come in conflict with regulations. 

Anyway GW needs to fix the App stuff with stability and functionality. A FW update via Smartphone is still missing. The FW itself shoes on some ACM/ MSuperV3 the folding down problem, luckily in standstill and not while driving. I hope GW will fix this soon.

On 20.9.2016 at 5:03 PM, EUCMania said:

I guess that this 84v is related to Rockwheel's new 16" board. 

In Aug. RockWheel did a crowd funding to raise money to build 200 new 16" EUCs with 84v/ 20s battery.  RW does not have much presence outside of China. GW and RW may decide to share the cost of the development of the board,  and their agreement may be that RW do it for Chinese market and GW will use it for oversea market. According to RW's promise, the board will use bigger MOS for upto 180A. ( so it is 180A*80V = 8*1800W? I doubt ). RW expect to deliver in Nov. 

Any numbers how much invest this HW change costs in the end?

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5 hours ago, HEC said:

It's more about sparing you of disappointment than "negativity" ... I really do wish that you'll receive the 1600 / 84V as (despite it's many shortcomings and uncertain / unconfirmed specs.) would consider getting one too ...

Well hey it looks like i'm either getting a 1600wh like the seller says or maybe a 1640wh. either one I will be happy with

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57 minutes ago, OliverH said:

Looks like Gotway has shown this year a great performance in engineering. Looking forward if they manage to run this different MOSFETs. As with all new things I'more a early follower or even more later one. Higher the voltage will come in conflict with regulations. 

Anyway GW needs to fix the App stuff with stability and functionality. A FW update via Smartphone is still missing. The FW itself shoes on some ACM/ MSuperV3 the folding down problem, luckily in standstill and not while driving. I hope GW will fix this soon.

Any numbers how much invest this HW change costs in the end?

I can absolutly confirm the folding problem!

happend to me now the third time...as i am hopping real fast on my V3 after powering up!

when i remember all that "noise" and bullying and bashing when KingSong had this problem!

Ks has just done an firmware update to get this prob out of the way!! Gotway is not even able to do that!

 

So to any V3 user: Take some Time  till you jump on your wheel after powering up!

Otherwise you can exspect your wheel to fold...collapse is perhaps the better word!

i dont know what the software is doing here in the first 3-5 seconds...loading the capacitors???

 

whatever.....2 -3 months till KS had that prob...a shame that Gotway did not get it away since then!

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4 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

I can absolutly confirm the folding problem!

happend to me now the third time...as i am hopping real fast on my V3 after powering up!

when i remember all that "noise" and bullying and bashing when KingSong had this problem!

Ks has just done an firmware update to get this prob out of the way!! Gotway is not even able to do that!

 

So to any V3 user: Take some Time  till you jump on your wheel after powering up!

Otherwise you can exspect your wheel to fold...collapse is perhaps the better word!

i dont know what the software is doing here in the first 3-5 seconds...loading the capacitors???

 

whatever.....2 -3 months till KS had that prob...a shame that Gotway did not get it away since then!

This has happened to me twice on my V2 HS. Both times it happened though I thought i started it and had it tilted forward more then normal and that was the cause. So what I do now is I will start the device and before i get on I will rock the unit forward and backward. I thought it was just me but I guess this is a Gotway problem. ever since it last happened a couple months ago it has not happened since when I started rocking it forward and backwards

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3 minutes ago, Donafello said:

This has happened to me twice on my V2 HS. Both times it happened though I thought i started it and had it tilted forward more then normal and that was the cause. So what I do now is I will start the device and before i get on I will rock the unit forward and backward. I thought it was just me but I guess this is a Gotway problem. ever since it last happened a couple months ago it has not happened since when I started rocking it forward and backwards

from my 3 folds i would say its a timing problem, this checking i do fairly often!

last unfold was when i checked before! its not that the wheel does not work, back and forth you feel it working...but after hopping on it does not have enough power! All 3 times i was lucky and managed to grab the wheel or deal with the weakness!

its just that when that was a prob on the KS...i remember the GW fanboys bashing...while the Gw is in no way better :-)

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Just now, KingSong69 said:

from my 3 folds i would say its a timing problem, this checking i do fairly often!

last unfold was when i checked before! its not that the wheel does not work, back and forth you feel it working...but after hopping on it does not have enough power! All 3 times i was lucky and managed to grab the wheel or deal with the weakness!

its just that when that was a prob on the KS...i remember the GW fanboys bashing...while the Gw is in no way better :-)

Now that you said it it looks like it is a powr issue

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