WheelRunner Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 On 9/18/2016 at 7:52 AM, KingSong69 said: Yip! i am also commuting to my office at work...so no chance in getting dirty there :-) i will try something like i have done with my KS18...from a big peace of rubber or....we will see ;-) i keep you updated...as long here is apicture of my Ks18: I was wondering what you used to attach your rubber fender to your Ks18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 24 minutes ago, WheelRunner said: I was wondering what you used to attach your rubber fender to your Ks18? Thats just highquality double sided stick tape-3M brand.... Here it works without Problems, because it is a natural rounding , it just an Extension to the Shell and there is no force on the rubber.... Much more difficult to put something like this on a V3...as the rubber has to be bended....but i am working on it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 On 9/18/2016 at 7:13 AM, KingSong69 said: my next steps now are building a dust/water fender...the V3 and my trousers/shoes are getting soooo dirty....fender is really needed! It is unbelievable to me that for a wheel over $1000 Gotway doesn't give the customer a fender. One test rider on one rainy day is all that would be needed to recognize this deficiency. I frequently ride my IPS 121 and 191 in the rain, and I have zero splashing problems. Thank you, IPS, for having enough sense to give me a wheel that doesn't splash my feet and legs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 1 minute ago, MaxLinux said: It is unbelievable to me that for a wheel over $1000 Gotway doesn't give the customer a fender. One test rider on one rainy day is all that would be needed to recognize this deficiency. That's their way of saying, "don't ride this in the rain" I think this indirectly tells us something about their design and test process: they are fair weather testers. They probably don't do a lot of high speed testing either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 26 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: That's their way of saying, "don't ride this in the rain" I think this indirectly tells us something about their design and test process: they are fair weather testers. They probably don't do a lot of high speed testing either you stay "dry" on the ACM... no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 24 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said: you stay "dry" on the ACM... no? I live in Southern California. You can fill in the rest ... But the design of the ACM does look like it would not throw water up your back side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I live in Southern California. You can fill in the rest ... But the design of the ACM does look like it would not throw water up your back side. one of my favorite songs.... surely you must have gone through a PUDDLE or 2.... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelRunner Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 On 9/23/2016 at 0:29 AM, WheelRunner said: I rode about 13 kilometers today with the pedals calibrated to 0 degrees. The wheel definitely felt better, but it still felt like inclined roads took more effort than they should. So I've now set the pedal angle to -1 degree (tilt-back) to see if that helps. While doing that, I noticed when powered on the play in the wheel equates to 1 degree. So with the current setup, the forward lean edge (where I start to feel resistance) is -1 degree and the back edge of play is -2 degrees measured at the pedals. On 9/23/2016 at 1:56 AM, KingSong69 said: Hmmh....Sorry, i have not experienced such "incline Problems"....On the contrary i just found it as easy as on straight roads, and i am also 100kg. Just wanted to follow-up on this: Sometime after my first 100km on this wheel, I figured out what the problem was--I just wasn't pressing the forward edge of the pedals hard enough. What seemed to work well for me riding my Ninebot One E+ worked ok riding the Msuper V3 in almost every mode except inclines. I now have over 200km on the wheel and I can't ride it enough (pedals set to 0 degrees). A great wheel with plenty of power (till the next one of course). @KingSong69 I have to agree with @Greg Spalding and say thanks for the great writeup. I've been seeing much of the same behavior while riding my V3, but had not gone nearly as far into the details checking it out as you have. Your experience shows there--great work! Now I/we have to come up with a good fender solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 The fender problem was evident since the beginning just by the pictures, and it's not on rain only it's also do not ride after rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 7 hours ago, MaxLinux said: It is unbelievable to me that for a wheel over $1000 Gotway doesn't give the customer a fender. One test rider on one rainy day is all that would be needed to recognize this deficiency. I frequently ride my IPS 121 and 191 in the rain, and I have zero splashing problems. Thank you, IPS, for having enough sense to give me a wheel that doesn't splash my feet and legs!! Sorry, but i find this is has nothing to do with 1000$ Prices or is a General fault by Gotway and is a Little bit "far-fetched" It is just the design of the wheel! You can go and have a tank like the KS18 if you want half the wheel covered....or something small 18wheel like this V3 with a behaviour of a 16inch wheel! .And to compare it to the "generic design" Shells of IPS121/191 which are 16inch Shells and can only take a 16S2P with max 400wh??? Where is the IPS 18inch 45kmh 820wh wheel that Shows us how it goes??? For sure everyone who has eyes can see at once that this design is nothing for water and/or mud puddles and if you do not like it, ok, just dont buy it. My 2 Cents.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 And the Review goes on :-) today i had my 3. or 4. unfold :-( Chances that that can happen is: - jump very fast on the wheel - the more power you need for your first accelerate-lean in today my start was on shortly after powering on(forgot to move the wheel by hand) and with a little incline. Bäämmmm...... And therefore i learned a new thing about MSuperV3: The shell quality is baeh, maeh, aaarg.... now after one month of using my v3 has more deep!!!! scratches and blotches on the shell than my 9months old Ks14, which lately got used by my EUC starting girlfriend, and falls a lot(no protection), and also more worse than my KS18. Really bad plastic quality! So as it now has scratches anyway...i am going to glue my fender on it the next days...wait here for photos! taping does not hold the fender, and i got no clue if i wanted to glue...but now...the glue can not get my V3 much worse ;-) Edit: sorry for my english, always exchanging no, now, know...or on, one... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 i am sorry to hear these things above very sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 2 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Chances that that can happen is: - jump very fast on the wheel Thank you for continuous updates on your Msuper V3 experience! Could you please elaborate more on this "jumping very fast" - does it mean jumping from certain height while driving fast, jumping on things at certain speed, or any jumping at all? 2 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Chances that that can happen is: - the more power you need for your first accelerate-lean in today my start was on shortly after powering on(forgot to move the wheel by hand) and with a little incline. Bäämmmm..... The second one is in the lack of better word - tragic. This can happen real easy and it seriously reduces usability of the wheel. Can you imagine giving the wheel that behaves like this to a kid - they would forget to move it before jumping on in 99% of the cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 33 minutes ago, xebeche said: Thank you for continuous updates on your Msuper V3 experience! Could you please elaborate more on this "jumping very fast" - does it mean jumping from certain height while driving fast, jumping on things at certain speed, or any jumping at all? The second one is in the lack of better word - tragic. This can happen real easy and it seriously reduces usability of the wheel. Can you imagine giving the wheel that behaves like this to a kid - they would forget to move it before jumping on in 99% of the cases. first point i mean the time you need from powering on, till standing on the wheel and leaning forward... If thats just 2-3 seconds from powering on, the chances are greater that the fault will happen. But: can also happen after about 30 seconds....power on...guiding the wheel by trolley...and then starting to drive-first lean in! Attention: this does not mean fault will happen WHILE driving! it is always the very first "lean" after powering on! second point: the main focus on my discription was "the incline", so more power needed.... the "moving hard by hand" is just ...if you do that...you can be sure you have no fold! In general this only happens very, very, very seldom!! i have had it 3-4 times...of -i dont know- very much- power on and starts... so i would guess-more a feeling- just about half percent or less of your starts! this is by far not my biggest complain of the v3..... the Msuperv3 is a beast....i love it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe73 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 10 hours ago, KingSong69 said: this is by far not my biggest complain of the v3..... Really, your biggest complaint is that it occasionally cuts out entirely on you when you start riding? That's not an annoyance, that's huge! In fact that's a deal breaker for me. I was planning on getting a v3 till I read these reports from people on the forum. It doesn't matter if it rarely happens, if it is a design flaw it's totally unacceptable, come on Gotway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 44 minutes ago, Shoe73 said: Really, your biggest complaint is that it occasionally cuts out entirely on you when you start riding? That's not an annoyance, that's huge! In fact that's a deal breaker for me. I was planning on getting a v3 till I read these reports from people on the forum. It doesn't matter if it rarely happens, if it is a design flaw it's totally unacceptable, come on Gotway! as this exactly same fault was also happening on KS in exactly the same way...and it is absolutly rare....and is gone if i just gave it a one second time forth-back pushing move by hand(which i even do all times also JUST to prove the wheel is really powered on)...i really did not find it that huge! EUC's in general are not perfect....and i am willing to live with some faults! Also: When i would not be an very experienced rider with his 4. wheel and know this type of fault from KS, i swore that this "unfold flaw" did not even be recognized! As this can also easily be interpreted as overlean.... I can defintitly say that this fault would not been seen as this fault, when this where my first or second wheel, or on the lets say first six months! Only one other rider reported this also, but even on less occasions than me, saying it only happens to incline starts... Not seen reporting even one rider on FB Gotway group or on french forum...So No! For me it is not that huge...in Total overview i would definitly say the Msuper is performance wise the best wheel i know and i would recommend it over all other wheels on market at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 11 hours ago, xebeche said: Thank you for continuous updates on your Msuper V3 experience! Could you please elaborate more on this "jumping very fast" - does it mean jumping from certain height while driving fast, jumping on things at certain speed, or any jumping at all? The second one is in the lack of better word - tragic. This can happen real easy and it seriously reduces usability of the wheel. Can you imagine giving the wheel that behaves like this to a kid - they would forget to move it before jumping on in 99% of the cases. For this tragic see my answer above to shoe73... one more argument against seeing it as sooo tragic: nothing happens on this occasions...you step on the wheel...it is not completly ready...and you just make one step forward as you go off then...only once (this time)i was not able to catch/grab my wheel before it falls over and would not even have reported this unfold if my wheel this time was not been scratched... Like said above: i would guess that this "fault" mostly would been interpreted as missstart by overlean by the owner! it also has to be considered that this here is my 4. wheel and so i can be a bit nitpicky...again: performancewise the V3 is for me the best wheel on the market and i would recommend it all time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: For this tragic see my answer above to shoe73... one more argument against seeing it as sooo tragic: nothing happens on this occasions...you step on the wheel...it is not completly ready...and you just make one step forward as you go off then...only once (this time)i was not able to catch/grab my wheel before it falls over and would not even have reported this unfold if my wheel this time was not been scratched... Like said above: i would guess that this "fault" mostly would been interpreted as missstart by overlean by the owner! it also has to be considered that this here is my 4. wheel and so i can be a bit nitpicky...again: performancewise the V3 is for me the best wheel on the market and i would recommend it all time.... And that is exactly the reason why I consider such stupid design oversights tragic - you have a wheel that is really great in so many things and then it's hampered by such small but very important thing. As I said can you imagine giving such wheel to a kid or new user? It's like you buy a great new car, but you have to push it first for a few meters before you can drive. I think that we as users should be very loud in expressing our disappointment and concern with such design mistakes, especially when they influence safety, so that manufacturers are forced to weed them out. These things that we love to ride have only one wheel and any out of specs / unexpected / unpredictable behaviour is a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 3:15 AM, MaxLinux said: It is unbelievable to me that for a wheel over $1000 Gotway doesn't give the customer a fender. One test rider on one rainy day is all that would be needed to recognize this deficiency. I frequently ride my IPS 121 and 191 in the rain, and I have zero splashing problems. Thank you, IPS, for having enough sense to give me a wheel that doesn't splash my feet and legs!! It seems a non-issue to me though. It takes about 10 minutes to "design" a fender using duck tape (and possibly some thin plastic) which tends to be even more functional than most industrially designed fenders in my experience. I have done this forever on the numerous bicycles I owned, and on an IPS From this perspective I could even appreciate that Gotway doesn't invest man power on this, but hopefully on more productive projects that I can't so easily fix myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 15/09/2016 at 0:09 AM, Greg Spalding said: i would love to hear your report on that comparison so many feel the ACM is still a "work in progress" to make it a viable alternative to the KS16 i know i would be happy with any that would have enough power to carry my 85kg frame it's just that where i live (as in most places) there is no repair center, etc reliability is of my utmost concern so that my wheel will be in my possession and not have to travel back somewhere to be fixed Hello everybody. First of all, sorry if my English is a little bit approximative. I have an ACM 680Wh and I did some rides on KS16B and Msuper3. Here are my litte report about the comparison. ACM has the most impressive acceleration (at low speed). From acceleration perspective ACM is no doubt THE monster and it is really impressive when you try it the first time. It's also very very pleasant. Nonetheless, as a rider you need to adopt dynamic attitute. Anyway, if you come from KS18A or something similar perhaps the weight of the ACM is not so surprising. msuper3 is very fast but we don't need to run at 40 km/h. Generally, ACM is very pleasant to drive. It really has the "gotway touch". In my view, msuper3 does not have the "gotway touch"; When you turn right or left, msuper3 tries to stay vertical too early. It's surprising and it's uncomfortable until you are familiar with this. This behavior is not natural. You need to be more dynamic than withb ACM. Anyway, msuper3 is surprisingly manoeuvrable. At low speed msuper3 is more difficult to control. It is touchy to keep the wheel running without stopping from time to time since it has too much inertia At high speed, ACM is very stable but msuper3 is more stable. These two gotways don't have the same behavior. If you switch from one to the other you need to forget the previous feelings and consider that you are running something really different. ACM pedals are too small but it seems that the new pedals are very comfortable. KS16B and Msuper3 pedals are comfortable. When it comes for riding experience, with older firmware, KS16B is not pleasant for me. I can do everything quite easily but it is not pleasant. It seems that from firmware 1.22 the riding experience has been improved. I've never tested it. I think that one of the main differences is that the KS16 800W seems too weak in comparison with ACM and msuper3 1500W. I think that the future KS16S (1200W) will be cool ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 2 hours ago, koto said: Generally, ACM is very pleasant to drive. It really has the "gotway touch". In my view, msuper3 does not have the "gotway touch"; When you turn right or left, msuper3 tries to stay vertical too early. It's surprising and it's unconfortable until you are familiar with this. This behavior is not natural. You need to be more dynamic than withb ACM. Anyway, msuper3 is surprisingly manoeuvrable. At low speed msuper3 is more difficult to control. It is touchy to keep the wheel running without stopping from time to time since it has too much inertia At high speed, ACM is very stable but msuper3 is more stable. These two gotways don't have the same behavior. If you switch from one to the other you need to forget the previous feelings and consider that you are running something really different. these 3 points have their reason not so much in the design of V3.... their reason is, that the V3 is a 18" and the ACM just a 16" my 2 cents :-) And welcome to the forum! (and: your english is absolutly fine!! much better than mine :-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 hours ago, koto said: Hello everybody. First of all, sorry if my English is a little bit approximative. I have an ACM 680Wh and I did some rides on KS16B and Msuper3. Here are my litte report about the comparison. ACM has the most impressive acceleration (at low speed). From acceleration perspective ACM is no doubt THE monster and it is really impressive when you try it the first time. It's also very very pleasant. Nonetheless, as a rider you need to adopt dynamic attitute. Anyway, if you come from KS18A or something similar perhaps the weight of the ACM is not so surprising. msuper3 is very fast but we don't need to run at 40 km/h. Generally, ACM is very pleasant to drive. It really has the "gotway touch". In my view, msuper3 does not have the "gotway touch"; When you turn right or left, msuper3 tries to stay vertical too early. It's surprising and it's unconfortable until you are familiar with this. This behavior is not natural. You need to be more dynamic than withb ACM. Anyway, msuper3 is surprisingly manoeuvrable. At low speed msuper3 is more difficult to control. It is touchy to keep the wheel running without stopping from time to time since it has too much inertia At high speed, ACM is very stable but msuper3 is more stable. These two gotways don't have the same behavior. If you switch from one to the other you need to forget the previous feelings and consider that you are running something really different. ACM pedals are too small but it seems that the new pedals are very confortable. KS16B and Msuper3 pedals are confortable. When it comes for riding experience, with older firmware, KS16B is not pleasant for me. I can do everything quite easily but it is not pleasant. It seems that from firmware 1.22 the riding experience has been improved. I've never tested it. I think that one of the main differences is that the KS16 800W seems too weak in comparison with ACM and msuper3 1500W. I think that the future KS16S (1200W) will be cool ! Thank you, once again, for taking the time to give us an update on the comparison I really appreciate this information and it is helpful all of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 On 26/10/2016 at 10:40 AM, KingSong69 said: these 3 points have their reason not so much in the design of V3.... their reason is, that the V3 is a 18" and the ACM just a 16" my 2 cents :-) And welcome to the forum! (and: your english is absolutly fine!! much better than mine :-) ) Solowheel XTreme is also 18" but it's really pleasant to drive. I think that a KS 16B (16") tends also to keep vertical too early but it is less disturbing than msuper3 behaviour. It would be nice if gotway could reduce this behaviour Perhaps the problem at low speed may be improved with a more reactive pedals configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 On 19.10.2016 at 6:58 AM, Shoe73 said: Really, your biggest complaint is that it occasionally cuts out entirely on you when you start riding? That's not an annoyance, that's huge! In fact that's a deal breaker for me. I was planning on getting a v3 till I read these reports from people on the forum. It doesn't matter if it rarely happens, if it is a design flaw it's totally unacceptable, come on Gotway! I just had an idea: Why not making a bug tracker thread in each manufacturer subforum here? Managed by someone asking periodically the manufacturer if there's any progress. This could also address feature requests. description status fender Not fixed by Gotway fold after start Not yet looked into the issue (could be fixed with a firmware update or in general a self test procedure after powering up) iOS App flickering Still no progress since the first release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'm sorry, I won't be able to update my ACM vs Msuper3 comparison since I stop testing msuper3. I don't like it. It's not funny to ride on msuper3 for me. ACM is so cool. There are so many people who has bought a msuper3 in France and they are happy with this wheel. So, let's say this wheel does not suit me well. If you can, the best idea is to test it by yourself. I tested a msuper3 680Wh. Perhaps I may have a better feeling with a heavier one (ex: 820Wh). Anyway, at low speed a heavier msuper3 should be more difficult to manage. Perhaps, it may also be interesting to test a msuper3 with gotway new pedals. That may change something. But unfortunately, I have no opportunity to make these tests and I'm already very happy with my ACM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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