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Msuper v3 1640wh???


Donafello

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I think I've seen this picture in a thread but I wanted to start a discussion to ask what people think.  You can see the v3 on the left that we know are being sold already and if you look at the one on the right you can clearly see extra room made in the casing for what I'm assuming is the extra batteries. What do you guys think??

I really want the 1640wh Msuper but when thinking about it I'm starting to feel that it's not needed for me.  My current v2 850wh is a monster and has never ran out of battery in one use.  Also weight is something you have to look at as the 1640 will be a pretty heavy unit which will also slow the wheel down a little bit.  The way my V2 runs after a full charge is amazing and after about 5 miles of riding you can feel your top speed will drop a little.  And I'm sure this is for every unit out there.  With the 1640wh your going to have that amazing full charge riding for a lot longer which is the only reason I'm considering it.  Either way I'm so close to pulling the trigger on the 850wh.  More then Likely I'm just going to order one because I don't want to wait any longer.  

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13 minutes ago, Donafello said:

  The way my V2 runs after a full charge is amazing and after about 5 miles of riding you can feel your top speed will drop a little.  And I'm sure this is for every unit out there.  

 

I have never tried an Gotway MSuper...can you tell me how this "top Speed drop" works? Did you feel it? Does the 80% Alarm go on? how does Gotway drop the Speed?

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33 minutes ago, Donafello said:

I think I've seen this picture in a thread but I wanted to start a discussion to ask what people think.  You can see the v3 on the left that we know are being sold already and if you look at the one on the right you can clearly see extra room made in the casing for what I'm assuming is the extra batteries. What do you guys think??

I really want the 1640wh Msuper but when thinking about it I'm starting to feel that it's not needed for me.  My current v2 850wh is a monster and has never ran out of battery in one use.  Also weight is something you have to look at as the 1640 will be a pretty heavy unit which will also slow the wheel down a little bit.  The way my V2 runs after a full charge is amazing and after about 5 miles of riding you can feel your top speed will drop a little.  And I'm sure this is for every unit out there.  With the 1640wh your going to have that amazing full charge riding for a lot longer which is the only reason I'm considering it.  Either way I'm so close to pulling the trigger on the 850wh.  More then Likely I'm just going to order one because I don't want to wait any longer.  

With the 850Wh you have 4 cells in parallel, with the 1640Wh there are 8 in parellel -> so either double the current available (especially needed once they get low) or other way round, half the discharge current for each cell and therefor less stress for the battery.

So it's maybe not really needed for range (especially if you are for now comfortable with the 850Wh) but for safety (more current available in each situation) and better "battery care" (less stress by less discharge current).

The new MSuper has a stronger motor than the V2, i assume? So higher peak powers and continous currents are needed/drawn.

Maybe you can start with the 850Wh and if this should not be enough for you, you could upgrade it maybe lateron to 1640Wh? Is a little bit more expensive if you upgrade, but on the other side, if you decide not to upgrade its cheaper and you have a lighter wheel...

ps.: i have no idea if upgrading is possible!

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3 hours ago, Chriull said:

With the 850Wh you have 4 cells in parallel, with the 1640Wh there are 8 in parellel -> so either double the current available (especially needed once they get low) or other way round, half the discharge current for each cell and therefor less stress for the battery.

So it's maybe not really needed for range (especially if you are for now comfortable with the 850Wh) but for safety (more current available in each situation) and better "battery care" (less stress by less discharge current).

The new MSuper has a stronger motor than the V2, i assume? So higher peak powers and continous currents are needed/drawn.

Maybe you can start with the 850Wh and if this should not be enough for you, you could upgrade it maybe lateron to 1640Wh? Is a little bit more expensive if you upgrade, but on the other side, if you decide not to upgrade its cheaper and you have a lighter wheel...

ps.: i have no idea if upgrading is possible!

For upgrading you would Need new/other "sideparts"...but in General ist possible

You can barely see on the photo, the left is a 680/840wh Version, the right one is a 1640wh Version...

The 1640wh Version has wider sidepanels to fit the double layer of Batterie packs!

For the security: As Gotway is selling 680/840wh Version's mainly (all Versions 1500Watt Motor) i dont think it is unsafe....Sure: with 16s8p you are better/safer, but it do not think it is needed.

 

@Donafello

If you never ran out of Juice with your V2, and you never have been in Need for more, why Chose the bigger one?

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

For upgrading you would Need new/other "sideparts"...but in General ist possible

You can barely see on the photo, the left is a 680/840wh Version, the right one is a 1640wh Version...

The 1640wh Version has wider sidepanels to fit the double layer of Batterie packs!

For the security: As Gotway is selling 680/840wh Version's mainly (all Versions 1500Watt Motor) i dont think it is unsafe....Sure: with 16s8p you are better/safer, but it do not think it is needed.

 

@Donafello

If you never ran out of Juice with your V2, and you never have been in Need for more, why Chose the bigger one?

 

 

 

For the reasons the poster above you stated?

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8 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

I have never tried an Gotway MSuper...can you tell me how this "top Speed drop" works? Did you feel it? Does the 80% Alarm go on? how does Gotway drop the Speed?

on any wheel your wheel will perform better when fully charged. thats what i was referring to. 

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1 hour ago, Donafello said:

on any wheel your wheel will perform better when fully charged. thats what i was referring to. 

OK....my wheels dont do that...they perform the same from 100% lets say down to 60 or 50%....before the achievable Watts get to low...

The top speed "i can not feel drop after 5  Miles"...as way before topspeed a tiltback would go between....

 

from your comment i thought that is different on Gotways and as i ordered a msuper3 also...i wanted to learn something new...but ok :-)

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I run out of battery on a tour with my MSuper V2 680 Wh. Had to carry and roll it the last 2 km :( First Action was a trolley handle bar and now a 1RadWerkstatt 207 Wh Addon battery.

1640 Wh sounds great but the EUC will get heavy. Maybe we need some more time for better batteries with higher capacity.

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14 hours ago, OliverH said:

I run out of battery on a tour with my MSuper V2 680 Wh. Had to carry and roll it the last 2 km :( First Action was a trolley handle bar and now a 1RadWerkstatt 207 Wh Addon battery.

1640 Wh sounds great but the EUC will get heavy. Maybe we need some more time for better batteries with higher capacity.

I remember going from the 680 to 850 msuper I deff felt the differences in weight.  I can imagine the 1640

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Gotway should have their hands full. Going from 820 to 1640 is not so straightforward, and its not just making changes to the casing to fit all that extra battery and making a different shape additional battery. The change will involve other things:

1) charging port

Keeping 1 charging port, wit the current charger will make you charge msuper1640 for 15 hours. Need another port or a faster charger which Gotway has been shying away from so far. Providing a fast charger is not just getting the factory to send them a fast charger. Gotway may have to upgrade internal components to be compatible. Their connectors on the charging side are flimsy and are not rated for anything over 3A.

2) Potentially upgrading controller

If the additional battery is connected to controller in parallel, they will have to deal with all that addditional current availabke to the controller. Can controller handle 80A coming to it?? This could be a big change. And if they incorporate a fuse at the controller - i really dont want this fuse to go at 40kmh. So they have lots of testing to do. There has been talk of an increased max speed for msuper1640 which leads me to believe the connection of batteries might be parallel.  After all, they are not going to raise the voltage in a true serial connection, which would have been even more of a change. More current, more power, means more heating. They will have to potentially deal with all that extra heat.

3) does additional battery power translate into higher speed? 

Well, then you have even mire to worry about - software changes, speed control, beeps, tiltback, how does the euc behave at higher speed overall - more and more testing

 

this can be a profound , if not fundamental, change.

i will expect the first " rushed" versions of the 1640 to be glitchy, at the very least....

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16 minutes ago, OliverH said:

But Gotway could test even stronger motors, more A capable motherboards in public and no one would see it. The 1640 Wh calls for motors with 4-5 KW peak.

Well thats what i am saying, its not as easy as simple slapping a bigger battery on top of an existing wheel 

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19 hours ago, OliverH said:

I run out of battery on a tour with my MSuper V2 680 Wh. Had to carry and roll it the last 2 km :( First Action was a trolley handle bar and now a 1RadWerkstatt 207 Wh Addon battery.

1640 Wh sounds great but the EUC will get heavy. Maybe we need some more time for better batteries with higher capacity.

How do you use this addon battery, usually? Always connected to the main battery for charging and discharging (-> same voltages in both),or connected just on demand (-> different voltages...)?

And I suppose that this solution can be used too with the MSuper3 820Wh...

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1 minute ago, sbouju said:

How do you use this addon battery, usually? Always connected to the main battery for charging and discharging (-> same voltages in both),or connected just on demand (-> different voltages...)?

And I suppose that this solution can be used too with the MSuper3 820Wh...

The addon battery fit in the place where Gotway places the 3 rd battery to get 850 Wh. The 680 Wh MSuper V2 comes with a 340 Wh on the lef and rigjht compartment. The small compartment in the right side /power button to the front) is used for the mainboard. The same space is on the other side unused (680 Wh) or fitted with a third battery (GW: 170 Wh, 1RadWerkstatt: 207 Wh). Better battery cells and you get 887 Wh with the 1RadWerkstatt upgrade. Will do that this evening. Sorry for beeing off topic.

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3 hours ago, OliverH said:

But Gotway could test even stronger motors, more A capable motherboards in public and no one would see it. The 1640 Wh calls for motors with 4-5 KW peak.

So often we get the suggestion here that "it just needs a stronger motor". As Scotty would have said: "Ye canny break the laws of physics captain". 

Given a fixed maximum voltage:

  • higher power means more current
  • more current means thicker motor windings
  • thicker windings means less turns
  • less turns does at least mean higher maximum speed, but:
  • less turns means less flux
  • less flux means less torque.
  • less torque means an increased risk of faceplant and a lower safe top speed

Higher voltage wouldn't necessarily improve things either as that would result in higher current At low RPM/high acceleration - potentially too high.

The only way, with current technology, of getting more power AND more torque is with a physically bigger and heavier motor, ideally coupled with a higher voltage.

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23 minutes ago, Keith said:

So often we get the suggestion here that "it just needs a stronger motor". As Scotty would have said: "Ye canny break the laws of physics captain". 

Given a fixed maximum voltage:

  • higher power means more current
  • more current means thicker motor windings
  • thicker windings means less turns
  • less turns does at least mean higher maximum speed, but:
  • less turns means less flux
  • less flux means less torque.
  • less torque means an increased risk of faceplant and a lower safe top speed

Higher voltage wouldn't necessarily improve things either as that would result in higher current At low RPM/high acceleration - potentially too high.

The only way, with current technology, of getting more power AND more torque is with a physically bigger and heavier motor, ideally coupled with a higher voltage.

New concepts are still in place. Forget that windings. Look at axial generators and the profiled plates they use. Realise limitations and go beyond ;)

This concepts would have so much safety margin.

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1 hour ago, sbouju said:

Or is it a simple perspective illusion?

Based on what I have already read about, the 1640 Wh will be thicker, but of the same other two dimensions, no?

Check put this forum. its in french I believe but if you go through the thread you will see quite a few pictures of what has to be the 1640wh Msuper. You can clearly see the case is bigger and has a extra space on the sides

 

https://www.espritroue.fr/topic/1125-msuper-3-de-1640wh/?page=2

 

 

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16 hours ago, Donafello said:

Back to the picture in the original post.  Does anyone else think the unit on the right could be the 1640wh version.  the case is deff bigger then the v3 on the left

This is the 1640wh version. The MSuper V3 is definitely thicker at the top to account for the thicker batteries...

There's a 1640wh version of the ACM too...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

it seems that gotway got rid of the USB port and put a second charging port on their 16xxWH versions ... imho they should have upgraded the cables & charging port to 5 or 10 amp instead of removing the USB port ....

 

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17 minutes ago, Blunzn said:

it seems that gotway got rid of the USB port and put a second charging port on their 16xxWH versions ... imho they should have upgraded the cables & charging port to 5 or 10 amp instead of removing the USB port ....

 

It does exist.  Lol. What was that extra piece of electronics they had in the box?

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Can someone touch on the subject of having 2 ports. I'm sure that the unit will come with a charger that will have only one plug. So is the other just to help charger quicker if you have another charger? any thoughts on this would be great

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7 minutes ago, Donafello said:

Can someone touch on the subject of having 2 ports. I'm sure that the unit will come with a charger that will have only one plug. So is the other just to help charger quicker if you have another charger? any thoughts on this would be great

The other port is covered USB port ;)

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