EUC Talent Contest - discussion

[Rehab1]

@Shoe73 I agree! Thanks for making the change. I also added 2nd and 3 place prizes thanks to a generous donation (anonymous at present) 

@Sidestreet Reny I took you suggestion and added: The contest is designed to allow international EUC riders a chance to demonstrate their unique riding skills involving elements such as: Unique Style, Difficulty, Number of Tricks, Consistency and Creativity.

[Damp Rabbit]

On 11.8.2016 at 7:06 AM, Shoe73 said:

Looking at the rules it does seem to say the minimum time for a video is 2 minutes but is this intentional? I see the need for the 3 minute maximum length but why a minimum? If someone can do the most amazing trick in the world in 10 seconds the more power to them, I say. 

That's why I said "apparent". I assumed less than 2 would be ok but the wording suggests 2 is a minimum. I could do a nice 10 second video but reading 2 minutes suggests it won't count. Someone in a similar place might see it as a hard rule and just move on.

Thank you Rehab1 for doing this. My intent is not to rip you apart for doing this wrong but to offer constructive criticism based on my experience, which can sound a lot like ripping you apart. I would like to see dozens of videos submitted and to have them be seen by people outside of the community.

 

On 11.8.2016 at 8:10 AM, Sidestreet Reny said:

He has not won anything yet! Btw what's the deal, nobody is worried about @Jonathan Tolhurst or me for that matter?

I do regret mentioning him by name as an example.  He seemed to be perfect for the rules as written and he has the ability to shoot decent video which is more difficult than many think. A friend with a cell phone camera is not that impressive if they don't have camera skills.

Things like the rules against any editing of any kind will remove the chance for people who can't perfect an uncut routine or want to do anything more creative. Choosing to use rules like this is a subjective choice of course and subject to the vision of the person paying for the prize but this one rule stops most any idea I have and I don't see it adding any value.

 

Is this contest limited to just a individual rider? As written it seems to be. What about interacting with non riders as a dance partner for example?

If you have 3 riders doing tricks together do you just score the one rider with the name tag?

[Damp Rabbit]

On August 10, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Sidestreet Reny said:

FYI When I was a competitive skateboarder we were judged on a few things.

1. style

2. difficulty

3. number of tricks

4. consistency

5. creativity

We were also divided into age groups most of the time.

 

Very similar to the International Jugglers Association's competitions. And there is constant debate on whether it should be strictly the skill and tricks in a gymnastics style competition or something more like a performance closer to a theater or circus.

We even had a new organization startup to go strictly Olympic style (World Juggling Federation) with compulsories and uniforms and it's done quite well and encouraged a lot of growth in skill level. There is no middle ground where everyone agrees

[HEC]

I was personally looking forward to this competition and I'm really grateful to @Rehab1 and all others involved in organizing and donating to make this happen. However I share @Damp Rabbit's concerns. The rules after "heated" initial discussion become way to complicated and too restrictive for it's own good. Majority of people are more likely produce a short video of 10 - 30 seconds with one noteworthy trick rather than fairly long lasting several minutes especially with all other restrictions like no cutting or editing, staying in the shot, wearing bibs all the time and so on ...

Currently I can't come with anything I'd be able to produce and post till competition deadline to actually even comply with all those rules so I'd either not submit anything or even if I will I'd instantly disqualified due to failing multiply rules. And please don't take this as "whining" of failed and unimaginative person - it's simply expression of concerns of someone who sees that it's beyond his capabilities to "fit" in current set of rules. I mostly wanted to participate for the fun and the feel of being part of something rather than aim for the top spots with prices and most of all to share the fun with other like minded competitors. So far (at least since I last checked) there was zero videos submitted which makes me a bit sad as watching other's videos would be both inspiration as well as good indication that all is on good track.

I do lot of recordings during my rides though with minimum (almost zero "tricks") but here and there some interesting moments arises by a chance. I will for sure not be riding around wearing the bib all the time so that's one major rule out of the window for me right there ... If I'd need to submit video of minimum 2 minutes most likely 90 to 110 seconds of it would be boring "filler" just to fulfil another of the IMO restrictive rules. I might have 3 or 4 semi-interesting moments recorded which if joined together might lead to at least half-decent video but indeed that would be a breach of yet another rule (I most likely don't even wear the same clothes in all of them so unless I'd squeeze in the "change on the wheel" trick I'd not be able to fake it as one shot ). So clearly I'm well unfit for the format of this competition. I'll still try to submit some videos despite failing some (likely most) of the rules if for nothing else then at least for others to enjoy (or not - choice is yours).

Apologies for the long rant - just wanted to express my point of view  

[Rehab1]

@Damp Rabbit @HEC  I am always open to suggestions and appreciate your willingness to discuss the rules.

The new rules were changed a few days ago concerning the minimum video length. There is no longer a minimum, only a maximum which is 3 minutes. Example:  If a contestant gets shot out of a cannon,  lands onto a trampoline and then bounces out onto a moving EUC, I figure that would take about 5 seconds. Winner!!!?

As far as the bib is concerned that was narrowed down to just a simple name tag stuck on your shirt for identification purposes. There was a lot of discussion about people possibly using other people's videos posted on the Internet. Not everyone riding an EUC follows this forum so that could possibly happen. Both myself and the moderators thought it would be a good idea  to at least identify that the person submitting the video is actually 'that person'. Thoughts?

[Sidestreet Reny]

Oh @HEC @Damp Rabbit don't you just wanna have fun and be part of something fun? The rules are a bit weird I admit, but if ya forget yer bib or time signature is off and you get disqualified, we would all still see your video and enjoy whatever your cup of tea is, even if it's just riding around smiling. Thousands of people might see your video and enjoy it as well as be inspired by your participation. You just may not win but you'll will be part of something awesome, and I think that was all everybody wanted from the get go was to promote our sport and our community.

One love

[Cloud]

I think if there is another way to make the person identifiable, then the name tag might not be required? The point was to prevent people from using someone elses videos. In my opinion, if the person's face is always visible and then the person states at some point during the video that the video is submitted for the contest, then the name tag might not be required. 

At the same time, its not that difficukt to wear one. Id think this is the simplest one to comply.

[Rehab1]

@Cloud @Sidestreet Reny New Rule!! Anyone wishing to enter the contest must read the updated rules ....occasionally...just kidding?

The updated rules only require a quick shot of the contestant's name tag and date at the start of the video presentation. The time/date stamp was eliminated. Evolution!?

[Rehab1]

Contest rules have been revised and include: 

1) elimination of video splicing rule

2) elimination of time/date stamp rule

3) elimination of bib rule ( contestants will still be required to indentify themselves and the date the video) 

[Hirsute]

For me, that is a big mistake... the most interesting and important rule was: "Submitted videos must not be edited or spliced!  The entire video performance must be a continuous presentation from start to end."

Obviously not everybody can do this easily, but that is all the interest of the contest. That is not the classic video thread, that's a real challenge. And i don't understand why this rule would be a problem for creativity. That is a big constraint (the only big constraint), but constraint is good for creativity.

For me, if we can edit it's less interesting as a contest, it's what we can already see on the video thread... Now you will not judge the wheeler real habilities, but the film. 

[Hirsute]

In few days it will become a punk contest with no rules....

We are far from the Olympic EUC games.... 

[Rehab1]

@Hirsute you have a good point. Working with moderators. I take it you liked the rule?

[Damp Rabbit]

8 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

As far as the bib is concerned that was narrowed down to just a simple name tag stuck on your shirt for identification purposes. There was a lot of discussion about people possibly using other people's videos posted on the Internet. Not everyone riding an EUC follows this forum so that could possibly happen. Both myself and the moderators thought it would be a good idea  to at least identify that the person submitting the video is actually 'that person'. Thoughts?

Hi. I think this could be solved by having the performer do a slate of some kind. A separate video or in the comp video simply face the camera and say I am username X this is my 2016 EUC comp video. Having them say it on the day of their shoot would have them in the same background in the same clothes, same haircut etc... I don't think you could use someone else's video without being recognized if there even are any on the net that meet the rules that could be used as an entry.

If you asked me, I would postpone and rewrite the comp. There is not much awareness of it now and with a longer lead time it could reach a larger audience. You have great prizes with some serious value and I think it could draw some impressive videos. If you only get 3 videos it will feel like a failure and probably never happen again. If it gets 20 videos and some decent views then you can court sponsors for free swag.

Just in the Easy Bay San Francisco area there is half a dozen riders at our Wednesday juggling club that share a few EUC's and at least a dozen more some with great EUC skills in the East Bay circus community, who like Hirsute have other circus skills and video experience. There is a lot of interest in shooting videos but we can't meet the rules and the time is short.

I don't want to tell you what to do but if you wanted to call and just go over some ideas I'd be happy to get involved.

8 hours ago, Sidestreet Reny said:

Oh @HEC @Damp Rabbit don't you just wanna have fun and be part of something fun?

 

 

Absolutely, I have 3 videos in the video thread here and over 50 million YouTube views. I'm all about the web video.

 

8 hours ago, Cloud said:

At the same time, its not that difficukt to wear one. Id think this is the simplest one to comply.

Everyone I have mentioned this to grimaces. It's silly and you can't even read it on the video. It's a rule looking for a problem to me. It may be nothing for you but I don't want to wear one to compete and if I do enter it will be without one and I'll be disqualified. A large deterrent to entering.

Please don't take that personally, it is just showing how my friends and I feel about it.

 

8 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

@Cloud @Sidestreet Reny New Rule!! Anyone wishing to enter the contest must read the updated rules ....occasionally...just kidding?

But you're not kidding, the rules are not written yet and I have had to read them many times. For a fickle artsy type like myself this is a drag to have to keep checking on the restrictions.

 

7 hours ago, Hirsute said:

For me, that is a big mistake... the most interesting and important rule was: "Submitted videos must not be edited or spliced!  The entire video performance must be a continuous presentation from start to end."

Now this is familiar to me, no one agrees on anything  Which is why I did write a few weeks ago for Rehab1 to ignore everyone and do what he wants.

No editing will definitely help limit the videos to just skillful choreographed and well rehearsed riding. It will also limit the amount of videos to just a small fraction of what could be submitted. I'd say that's up to Rehab1 to pick what he prefers. I think it's clear which way I would go. 

 

I'm trying to share my opinions and the reasons behind them. I apologize for anywhere it comes off as I'm trying to dictate my opinions. This can be difficult without seeing faces.

[Rehab1]

I will be signed off for awhile. The thrill is gone!!!!

[Cloud]

36 minutes ago, Damp Rabbit said:

But you're not kidding, the rules are not written yet and I have had to read them many times. For a fickle artsy type like myself this is a drag to have to keep checking on the restrictions.

@Damp Rabbit i dont understand you. You didnt like that the contest had too many restrictions. You didnt like that the videos cannot be spliced.

We tried to appease you and allow more people like you to participate by removing the restriction you didnt like. And you are not happy about that?  @Rehab1 is trying as hard  as he can to attract more people and to please everyone. But its impossible to please everybody. 

1 hour ago, Hirsute said:

In few days it will become a punk contest with no rules....

We are far from the Olympic EUC games.... 

@Hirsute, yes i understand that the contest with more strict rules would be better suited for a contestant of your skill and caliber, but i , for one, support @Rehab1 in relieving the restrictions. In fact, i suggested to him to relieve them. This is a first competition of its kind and it can benefit from attracting more contestants and encouraging to participate. Perhaps it wont be the most adequate assessment of the skill and the stamina, but it will add fun and give a slightly less skillful riders a fighting chance. I am sure that if you, unlike many others, produce an uninterrupted video - the voters will recognize your unique skill and ability to perform non stop without resting, and will take this into account when casting the votes.

[Hirsute]

Shame...

if you could erase also the rule about the date of recording i would submit this one: 

I don't have better... It's a lot of work to do and edit, and i don't really want to do the same video twice... 

[Cloud]

@Hirsute i dont think the date restriction should be removed. If it is removed, it will no longer be the contest of euc riding performances. I think the idea was that people will record a video specifically for the contest. But its just my opinion. @Rehab1 has the final say on the rules, but i think he is a bit discouraged right now. He's spent a lot of time trying to start up this contest and i think  we should support him by giving a lot of positive feedback. When one sees so much negativity, its easy to get discouraged. After all, this is all good, this will be a lot of fun. It shouldnt be about who will win, its about sharing the fun of our hobby with each other.  Your video is amazing though  

[Shoe73]

@Rehab1 Don't get discouraged, it's the first time we've had this type of contest and everyone wants to voice their opinion. I think all the discussion on the rules isn't a bad thing, but realize that of course you can't please everyone. 

I think the change to allow editing of video is a big one. People who are talented in this area can make very creative and entertaining videos. But that changes the focus of the contest from who unicycle riding skills to video making skills. 

With almost no EUC skills I can make an entertaining EUC video if I am allowed to splice together video, just by using lots of different angles: straight down from above, straight up from below, from the side, forward at ground level, etc. Splice in a few close up facial expression shots, add some good royalty-free music, and I have an awesome video sure to get some votes. Any tricks on the EUC in there are a bonus.

On the other hand even if you are a great rider with awesome EUC skills you may not have the video editing skills, or may not want to take the time to do all the editing work, and this will put you at a disadvantage. (See @Hirsutes comment above about the videos being a lot of work to edit). 

If we want to keep the contest about EUC riding skills I suggest not allowing people to edit the videos. My 2 cents. 

[Cloud]

23 minutes ago, Shoe73 said:

@Rehab1 Don't get discouraged, it's the first time we've had this type of contest and everyone wants to voice their opinion. I think all the discussion on the rules isn't a bad thing, but realize that of course you can't please everyone. 

I think the change to allow editing of video is a big one. People who are talented in this area can make very creative and entertaining videos. But that changes the focus of the contest from who unicycle riding skills to video making skills. 

With almost no EUC skills I can make an entertaining EUC video if I am allowed to splice together video, just by using lots of different angles: straight down from above, straight up from below, from the side, forward at ground level, etc. Splice in a few close up facial expression shots, add some good royalty-free music, and I have an awesome video sure to get some votes. Any tricks on the EUC in there are a bonus.

On the other hand even if you are a great rider with awesome EUC skills you may not have the video editing skills, or may not want to take the time to do all the editing work, and this will put you at a disadvantage. (See @Hirsutes comment above about the videos being a lot of work to edit). 

If we want to keep the contest about EUC riding skills I suggest not allowing people to edit the videos. My 2 cents. 

@Shoe73, i believe allowing people to splice the videos is a positive change. This is not a video skills contest, its an euc riding contest. If someone creates a great video it helps make it attractive but the people are supposed to vote for the best euc rider, not for the most entertaining video. Splicing videos is just a tool to help someone who may be a great euc rider but doesnt have choreography skills to combine his tricks into one seamless performance. I dont see people giving up their votes for a great video savvy contestant if all he has to show for it is a few views from above, from below, and some facial expressions. There has to be substance and substance to the point - euc riding skills.

yes, perhaps removing this restriction will make the contest not totally objective from the standpoint of pure euc riding skills and being able to preform without interruption. But i believe its much more important at this time to jumpstart and popularize the contest, and attract more people. This is its first year, and it should be more about celebration and joy rather than the strict rules to find put who is the absolute best according to the strict rules. In the future years, the rules can be refined and made more strict. But the first year strict rules will simply discourage the already very few potential contestants. 

[Hirsute]

5 hours ago, Cloud said:

Splicing videos is just a tool to help someone who may be a great euc rider but doesnt have choreography skills to combine his tricks into one seamless performance.

i don't understand why people could't put tricks or other things together to do a non editing video. It's like talkin: You may know the words, all the beauty is how you put them together to do sentences... Doing a choregraphy using just what you are really mastering everytime is a beautiful work.

But anyway, don't be discouraged. We will do like this. I hope that, with all these changes, we will have a lot of contestants. I will write on french forums to annonce the changes. Maybe some other wheelers will participate...

 

[Cloud]

6 hours ago, Hirsute said:

i don't understand why people could't put tricks or other things together to do a non editing video. It's like talkin: You may know the words, all the beauty is how you put them together to do sentences... Doing a choregraphy using just what you are really mastering everytime is a beautiful work.

But anyway, don't be discouraged. We will do like this. I hope that, with all these changes, we will have a lot of contestants. I will write on french forums to annonce the changes. Maybe some other wheelers will participate...

It is not as easy as it seems. It may come naturally to people who have the gift or a lot of experience in similar performances, but a regular person would not know how to tie all his elements together. This is why they pay big money to people trained in teaching how to do this - choreographers. To create a seamless performance such that everything looks like one fluent act for 3 minutes  is very difficult! 

 

 

[HEC]

13 hours ago, Damp Rabbit said:

14 hours ago, Cloud said:

At the same time, its not that difficukt to wear one. Id think this is the simplest one to comply.

Everyone I have mentioned this to grimaces. It's silly and you can't even read it on the video. It's a rule looking for a problem to me. It may be nothing for you but I don't want to wear one to compete and if I do enter it will be without one and I'll be disqualified. A large deterrent to entering.

Please don't take that personally, it is just showing how my friends and I feel about it.

This mirrors exactly my thoughts / feels on this plus @Cloud please see my reasoning about this point in the previous reply ...

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, HEC said:

This mirrors exactly my thoughts / feels on this plus @Cloud please see my reasoning about this point in the previous reply ...

I just reread your previous reply, and i believe all your concerns have been addressed and all such rules removed. Name tag rule was removed also, as long as the contestant is identifiable, to make sure people dont use someone elses videos. The name of the name tag didnt have to necessarily be visible, the pount was to wear a tag so its clear that the video was shot specifically for the contest

 

 

[Sidestreet Reny]

23 hours ago, Damp Rabbit said:

Absolutely, I have 3 videos in the video thread here and over 50 million YouTube views. I'm all about the web video.

Huh?

[Damp Rabbit]

14 hours ago, Sidestreet Reny said:

Huh?

I thought that was pretty clear, what didn't make sense? I have posted 3 videos here and I've had a few very successful viral videos in other areas. I don't want to post a resume but I've been doing video on the web for decades. I was pointing out I'm enthusiastic about doing videos.