New firmware v 1.22

[US69]

3 hours ago, da_toni said:

I did the update with the iPhone, maybe you have to wait a little bit until it will appear in the update menu...

 

3 hours ago, OliverH said:

Is the feature list of Android 1.4 and iOS Kingsong-New the same?

until now, the "newest" Version of IOs Kingsong-new did NOT show up on the app store...

Jason mentioned the 20.august...but as wenall know, such timelines of KS are somtimes to optimistic :-)

but i would exspect a version 1.1 of IOS "new" all day now....

[US69]

@DS thanx for your work....but:

wouldnt it be better to check a "max Watt" on a full batterie?

for sure i would exspect the power of idling been cut on around 61-62 volt!

This is a batterie voltage where even on "theoretic" it can not be over 2000 watts anymore?!

The full 2700-2800 Watt is only possible on a full batterie of 67 volt...my 2 cents....that is one of the reasons why KS throw in the safety "lower kmh"  on batterie at 50%...because it is not possible anymore to generate full watts out of this voltage....

[HermanTheGerman]

I upgraded to 1.22 and am quite happy with it.

But maybe the main reason is, because I crossed the 100 km border today and could finally set it to 30 km/h.

Just awesome!

[HEC]

1 hour ago, HermanTheGerman said:

But maybe the main reason is, because I crossed the 100 km border today and could finally set it to 30 km/h.

Congrats & Enjoy! Though you might have unlocked it before reaching 100 Km limit:

 

[Frode]

4 hours ago, DS said:

Successfully updated to 1.22

This time I recorded videos...if you guys could see power improvement, because I can not see. First video is with 1.21, second 1.22 FW

I don't know what you expect, but at least in one occasion the current is reported to be 38 A. remember that KS-16 has a 40 A fuse. 40 A and 61.3 V makes 2452 W. Depending on the spec for the fuse it might tolerate significantly more current than 40 A, but the more amperes, the shorter the time before it blows. My guess is that KS-16 says "over power" when at or near 40 A.

 

2450 W gives quite heavy acceleration. I've tried to do some math (correct me anyone): On flat road, if we disregard rolling resistance, wind resistance etc, and if you and your wheel together weights 100 kg, and if the wheel could retain that 2450 W with increasing speed (which it of course cannot), you would have accelerated to ca. 80 kph in 10 seconds

[Jason McNeil]

@DS thanks for sharing? I've asked KS what the rationale is with lowering the max power output of the KS16s (I have KS on camera at CES stating the board's power has been tested to 3500W!). Understandably you wouldn't want to be running >2200W for any length of time, but peak >2800W methinks is desirable. 

[Cloud]

31 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

@DS thanks for sharing? I've asked KS what the rationale is with lowering the max power output of the KS16s (I have KS on camera at CES stating the board's power has been tested to 3500W!). Understandably you wouldn't want to be running >2200W for any length of time, but peak >2800W methinks is desirable. 

Jason, I was kinda upset to hear about this too. As an active and heavy rider, i rely on these 3500w quite often, feels nice to know you have an extra horse power or two under the saddle.

Is it possible they did it so as to lower the risk overloading /burning the CB and/ or battery fuses?

the scale may be slowly tipping in favor of ACM,  no matter however ugly that monster is. hope i am wrong and KS had a good reason for this change

 

[Xoltri]

I updated my KS16, it is noticeably smoother at all speeds, especially at 30km/h.  It used to have a slight grindy feeling off and on at that speed but it is gone now.  The smoothness of the ride feels amazing.  My side lights are still funky though, they flash white randomly when rolling.  Edit: Actually this update fixed my side light issue too.

However, what exactly does 'increased alarm of high power and tilt back' mean?  i didn't notice any difference.

[EUCMania]

38 minutes ago, xoltri said:

I updated my KS16, it is noticeably smoother at all speeds, especially at 30km/h.  It used to have a slight grindy feeling off and on at that speed but it is gone now.  The smoothness of the ride feels amazing.  My side lights are still funky though, they flash white randomly when rolling.  Edit: Actually this update fixed my side light issue too.

However, what exactly does 'increased alarm of high power and tilt back' mean?  i didn't notice any difference.

I read a Chinese forum about this "increased alarm of high power and tilt back". It looks like a bad google translation is used. The Chinese should be translated as "Added the feature of tilting back when power consumption is above a certain level". 

Before, it beeps when power demand is above certain level and ask you to slow down. Now it also tilts back, I guess. Since I do not have KS16 here, I cannot be 100% sure this is the case. Can someone test it by going uphill fast to see if it tilts before the regular tilting speed limit?

[DS]

10 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

@DS thanx for your work....but:

wouldnt it be better to check a "max Watt" on a full batterie?

for sure i would exspect the power of idling been cut on around 61-62 volt!

This is a batterie voltage where even on "theoretic" it can not be over 2000 watts anymore?!

The full 2700-2800 Watt is only possible on a full batterie of 67 volt...my 2 cents....that is one of the reasons why KS throw in the safety "lower kmh"  on batterie at 50%...because it is not possible anymore to generate full watts out of this voltage....

 

Due to the bad weather here I do not keep the wheel fully charged. I will test it this way ASAP.

Watching the videos again I've noticed voltage drop only 2 volts - from 61V to 59V. I do not think 59V is so low number for the system to restrict the power at that level, but let's see, more tests are needed.

[DS]

8 hours ago, Frode said:

I don't know what you expect,

My wheel arrived with FW 1.15. At that time the message "Be caution, overpower" happened at appr. 2800 Watts. The same was with FW 1.20.

From FW 1.21 on, this number is appr. 2200.

Nothing special to expect, just share these observations, which could have consequences for some riders.

[DS]

8 hours ago, Cloud said:

Is it possible they did it so as to lower the risk overloading /burning the CB and/ or battery fuses?

This what I think is the KS rationale. The good point is that it seems (hopefully) the disturbing "fail to start" issue is overcome.

One new FW 1.22 bug to report:

When the BT on my android phone is on, the KS16 voice messages are on and I press the power button I got the famous "Hello Kingsong" and immediately after that "Bluetooth is connected", odd enough without touching the AUX button. So, willingly or not all phone sounds go via the wheel speakers, the AUX button is useless in this case and the only way to stop this is when turn off the BT from the phone. In KS16 silent mode this bug does not exist.

[Frode]

3 minutes ago, DS said:

My wheel arrived with FW 1.15. At that time the message "Be caution, overpower" happened at appr. 2800 Watts. The same was with FW 1.20.

From FW 1.21 on, this number is appr. 2200.

Nothing special to expect, just share these observations, which could have consequences for some riders.

2800 W at 40 A needs 70 V. If the voltage is 61.3 V as is shown in your app, the current will need to be 45.5 A. 59 V needs 47.5 A - through a 40 A fuse! I don't know how fast those fuses are, but I would regard that as driving on the edge of a cliff. I wouldn't do that for any amount of time without a full face helmet 

I amnot saying you are expecting the wrong thing. The wheel and electronics might be capable of handling much more than that. But still, that fuse...

[DS]

2 minutes ago, Frode said:

But still, that fuse...

Yeah, that seems the reason...

8 hours ago, Cloud said:

Is it possible they did it so as to lower the risk overloading /burning the CB and/ or battery fuses?

This what I think is the KS rationale.

[JB01]

Hi all, Looks like this version might be a good upgrade. Just one silly questions. So I'm on 1.19 now (ks16), is it safe to go straight to 1.22 or should I do the upgrades one by one?

[DS]

8 minutes ago, JB01 said:

So I'm on 1.19 now (ks16)

If I ever had 1.19 (never offered as update), I wouldn't have changed it...just my two cents 

Well, there are some forum members quite happy with 1.19, but it's your decision anyway.

[JB01]

17 minutes ago, DS said:

If I ever had 1.19 (never offered as update), I wouldn't have changed it...just my two cents 

Well, there are some forum members quite happy with 1.19, but it's your decision anyway.

Hmmm... No, I have never updated and only had it for a couple of month. Yeah, you might be right there, if it ain't broken....

I do however get some wobbling at higher speed and I was hoping to get rid of that but it might also be due to an inexperienced driver.

But if I would do the upgrade, can I skip the ones in between?

[DS]

4 minutes ago, JB01 said:

But if I would do the upgrade, can I skip the ones in between?

Generally yes. I did it from 1.15 to 1.20.

[JB01]

Just now, DS said:

Generally yes. I did it from 1.15 to 1.20.

Ok, good, thanks... I'll give it some time to see what pops up in the community

[HEC]

56 minutes ago, DS said:

One new FW 1.22 bug to report:

When the BT on my android phone is on, the KS16 voice messages are on and I press the power button I got the famous "Hello Kingsong" and immediately after that "Bluetooth is connected", odd enough without touching the AUX button. So, willingly or not all phone sounds go via the wheel speakers, the AUX button is useless in this case and the only way to stop this is when turn off the BT from the phone. In KS16 silent mode this bug does not exist.

Nice find - looks like KS really outdone themselves on v1.22  I can confirm the same behaviour with my wheel.

[US69]

42 minutes ago, Frode said:

2800 W at 40 A needs 70 V. If the voltage is 61.3 V as is shown in your app, the current will need to be 45.5 A. 59 V needs 47.5 A - through a 40 A fuse! I don't know how fast those fuses are, but I would regard that as driving on the edge of a cliff. I wouldn't do that for any amount of time without a full face helmet 

I amnot saying you are expecting the wrong thing. The wheel and electronics might be capable of handling much more than that. But still, that fuse...

I see it another way:

The board...and the power consumption from the board is done/designed in a way that 40 Amps are never!!! drawn from the batteries....

The 40Amp Fuse is more for a case of board failure (for example Capacitor failure, because THEN the draw can get higher)

Then the Amp draw is split on the 4 parallel Batterie packages

 ...each 16s1p Pack can only deliver 670Watt on 67 Volt at his max 10Amp  Peak...4 times it is 2680 Watt....

The type of batteries in KS16 are not able to deliver  more, even on 10Amp they got a very big fat Volt drop

On  60 Volt our batteries are just able to deliver 600Watt...together 2400 Watt!

These numbers are all even without bringing voltdrop into the game

 

KS cut the Speed(and so the max draw) on 50% Batterie(about 58V) because  low state batteries are not able to deliver the Wattage that is needed on extreme situations...

 

Btw.: With the 40Amp Fuse on the KS we see that "3000 Watt max" is pure Marketing...because with 40Amp on 67 Volt the absolute max is 2680 Watt.... :-)

[US69]

41 minutes ago, JB01 said:

Hmmm... No, I have never updated and only had it for a couple of month. Yeah, you might be right there, if it ain't broken....

I do however get some wobbling at higher speed and I was hoping to get rid of that but it might also be due to an inexperienced driver.

But if I would do the upgrade, can I skip the ones in between?

If you do get the wobbling on high speed, perhaps you could be happy with the update!

Since 1.21 it also has a new "Motor Driver" which is optimizing the communication between magnets and coils.....some other reported for example a higher "lift Speed" after updating!

[JB01]

4 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

If you do get the wobbling on high speed, perhaps you could be happy with the update!

Since 1.21 it also has a new "Motor Driver" which is optimizing the communication between magnets and coils.....some other reported for example a higher "lift Speed" after updating!

From what I can tell there is a bunch of small issues with light, sound etc but at the same time it seems that they have quite successfully improved the general drive experience so it sounds like a winner after all. Think I'll wait a bit however until we have more feedback from the community, the version I have works just fine so I don't have any panic upgrading

[Frode]

3 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Btw.: With the 40Amp Fuse on the KS we see that "3000 Watt max" is pure Marketing...because with 40Amp on 67 Volt the absolute max is 2680 Watt.... :-)

Yes, but still a 40 A fuse normally can be overloaded for a shorter or longer time. 40 A is for continuous load. If you look at the time vs current curves spec in the below linked spec for Littlefuse mini blade fuses you will see what I mean. I do however know nothing about the fuse used in KS-16. I have never been able to find a data sheet of them.

http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/Automotive/Datasheets/Fuses/Passenger-Car-and-Commercial-Vehicle/Blade-Fuses/Littelfuse_MINI_58V_Datasheet.pdf

 

[US69]

2 minutes ago, Frode said:

Yes, but still a 40 A fuse normally can be overloaded for a shorter or longer time. 40 A is for continuous load. If you look at the time vs current curves spec in the below linked spec for Littlefuse mini blade fuses you will see what I mean. I do however know nothing about the fuse used in KS-16. I have never been able to find a data sheet of them.

http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/Automotive/Datasheets/Fuses/Passenger-Car-and-Commercial-Vehicle/Blade-Fuses/Littelfuse_MINI_58V_Datasheet.pdf

 

Funny is that in my Original KingSong Instruction Manual is a Max Wattage of 2700Watt printed :-)