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David S

KS16 wont turn on

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Coincidentally this has just happened to me. I've been riding around just fine for about 4-5 months now. I stopped my KS16, pressed the button to switch it off and nothing happened. The motor resisted the wheel moving but didn't balance, then after a few minutes the fuse blew. Now I've replaced the fuse the wheel spins frantically when switched on. I've just emailed Jason and will await developments.

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...and many thanks to @Jason McNeil & Stefan, who fixed my KS16 in an hour yesterday by replacing the control board. Seems to be working OK so far.

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Second time just about one month after the first one. This time on an emergency break !!! The fuse has melt again. This time while opening the wheel to access the fuse I noted that the main board is in version 1.2. Would version 1.3 help ? How would the wheel ideally react in case of too much power asked ?

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43 minutes ago, Valery De Smedt said:

Second time just about one month after the first one. This time on an emergency break !!! The fuse has melt again. This time while opening the wheel to access the fuse I noted that the main board is in version 1.2. Would version 1.3 help ?

I have never seen a v1.2 board, just once I had a v1.3 board in my hand - the only visible difference to the "original, normal" board without a version number on it was the bluetooth antenna wire was in the style of an "curled pig tail", the big capacitor was mounted with shorter legs and the motor wires got an second insulation (maybe also different wires).

But with all this tiny smd components on it there easily could be some more relevant changes happened!

So - imho you'll have to try out to know if i helps or not!

43 minutes ago, Valery De Smedt said:

How would the wheel ideally react in case of too much power asked ?

The ideal reaction would be, that the wheel provides the maximum power possible (~power limitation by firmware to protect the mosfets in combination with the max torque/speed limit of the motor). As this is below the power needed to keep you upright (==too much power asked) this will result in an overlean.

By knowing the actual speed, actual load and the power trend the driver is asking by leaning forward/backward the firmware should be able to give a warning before such a overpower situation happens in most cases. Sometimes it should even be able to stop your "wishes" by starting to tilt-back (if enough power reserves are available).

Imho having a fuse as overpower protection is a bad solution - the power limiting is implemented by the firmware and should be precise and sophisticated enough to protect the mosfets and the motor from any damages! A fuse should be just a final protection for some major malfunctioning (a short happening inside by worn down insulations, some component failures, cpu "hang ups", etc) but it should never ever burn in a "normal" high-load/overpower situation! A statement in regard of the burned fuses of KS was, that this happend due to a broken capacitor leg (the big one mounted over the fan) due to mechanical stress and the solution was to shorten the legs and fasten the capacitor in a better way?

At least it could issue wild beeping once the overpower situation is encountered (the overlean starts) to give one a last chance to counteract. But as @Paco Gorinacame to the conclusion with some mathlab simulation

that once an overlean started one falls very quicklyand it could be almost impossible to react fast enough to prevent the accident. But at least the beeping wheel could show, that it tried to warn one ;) 

 

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After the simulations I beleive the best is to put more intelligence in the controller so it takes into account the slope, battery level, etc. for generating the tiltback but there are always ways where it will fail. An example is the descent / ascent profile.

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This similar experience has now happened to me on my day-old KS16. I'm in Switzerland, and I can't seem to locate a dealer here. Does this mean I have to go to the dealer I bought from (Nante, France), approx. 800km away to have this fixed ?  What else an I do?

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Update: So after several emails to both, Tina @Kingsong, and the seller, wheelers-store.com, only Tina has responded. Till now she suggests I take the euc back to the seller for repair. 

If after an attempted phone call to the seller they are unresponsive, I will make a formal declaration on this forum warning everyone of this seller's practices..and possibly their affiliate "High tems", who actually sent me the wheel.

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2 hours ago, Coffee guy said:

Update: So after several emails to both, Tina @Kingsong, and the seller, wheelers-store.com, only Tina has responded. Till now she suggests I take the euc back to the seller for repair. 

If after an attempted phone call to the seller they are unresponsive, I will make a formal declaration on this forum warning everyone of this seller's practices..and possibly their affiliate "High tems", who actually sent me the wheel.

Can you tell a bit more about what you mean with "seller's practises"....i mean it is still first day of the week??? Normally the Reputation of KS France="hightems" is not that bad.....

 

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@KingSong69, sure. I emailed Wheelers, and Tina at Kingsong sunday night at the same time, but only Tina has responded. This leads me to believe (so far) that wheelers is only interested in sales and doesn't support after-sales customer concerns. When I first inquired about sales, then nearly withdrew my order due to a cost concern, they contacted me and my wife quite quickly (within a day). But now that I'm having a problem with the product, nothing (yet). In trying to be clear as possible, I only want it repaired, and in a very timely manner.  Nothing else. So it's difficult to have trust with them, at least at this point. As mentioned, will give them a call. Trying to give them the benefit of a doubt.

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@Coffee guy, when did you buy the Wheel & what serial number does it have? For the first couple months, the KS16" boards were not very reliable, not while riding (thank goodness!), but there were a string of bizarre instances of spontaneous board failures (e.g. no response to power) after being plugged in to charge, with no discernible evidence on the board itself.

When they do get around to replacing the failed component, the good news is that the updated boards have proven rock solid. 

Edited by Jason McNeil

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1 hour ago, Coffee guy said:

@KingSong69, sure. I emailed Wheelers, and Tina at Kingsong sunday night at the same time, but only Tina has responded. This leads me to believe (so far) that wheelers is only interested in sales and doesn't support after-sales customer concerns. When I first inquired about sales, then nearly withdrew my order due to a cost concern, they contacted me and my wife quite quickly (within a day). But now that I'm having a problem with the product, nothing (yet). In trying to be clear as possible, I only want it repaired, and in a very timely manner.  Nothing else. So it's difficult to have trust with them, at least at this point. As mentioned, will give them a call. Trying to give them the benefit of a doubt.

Ok...i for my part find that a Little harsh....to get to this "conclusion" because they did not answer until now, as it is not even 24hours since Sunday night....

Most of the small EUC Business i know are even going normal working to make a living.

 

 

Edited by KingSong69

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And btw:

If you look for wheelers Store on Google.....

 

Monday it's closed!!!!

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@Jason McNeil, the sn is: KS16 D3 B 0160630 173   don't know the manufacture date though. 

@KingSong69, I'm simply distraught about the situation. I don't/didn't know of Wheelers' store dates & times because there's no indication on their website of these. And I didn't check google, so you're right on that count. Again, I'm just a bit sensitive about this I suppose. I am really an otherwise very reasonable and extremely patient person. 

We've called and left a voicemessage for Alex (at Wheelers), so will await his callback (hopefully tomorrow).

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If it there's a failure on literally the first day, returning the wheel and having the dealer deal with it is the only logical thing to do. Don't open it up or something; or waste your time otherwise (or use it further!).

You can even return it without reason in the 14 days after you got the package delivered. EU returns should still apply if you bought from France and you're in Switzerland (not 100% sure if it is for CH citizens or only EU citizens).

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_de.htm

So if the seller does not respond (one day is short, maybe wait a little more - just keep the 14 day period in mind - I believe it's enough if you send it back in the 14 days, it does not have to get back to the seller in this time) you can just send it back, say you want a return (you can still mention the defect but insist on a return) and that's it.

Sorry to hear your story, this is what nobody want to happen to them:(

Edited by meepmeepmayer

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14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

So if the seller does not respond (one day is short, maybe wait a little more

Yeah give them a couple days to get back to you. Speaking from my own experience, on some days, the workload exceeds the capacity in which to answer everything that comes my way. The intention is to try to stay on top of things, but sometimes it doesn't always work that way :unsure:.

For the serial number, from what I recall, the '0160630' represent this build date & this on is one of the early production units (without the updated pedals & control-board).

 

Edited by Jason McNeil

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If there's no answer, just keep the 14 days in mind (after that you might not be able to return "without reason", but of course you can still demand a working wheel etc) - and check if the 14 days apply if you are a CH citizen (I'm pretty sure they should, but could not find anything definitive).

You might want to return simply so you can buy less old (production date) wheel from someone else.

Edited by meepmeepmayer

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Update: Late afternoon yesterday received an email from seller stating that a service sheet has been sent to Kingsong, and that the euc will likely be sent to SAV. 

Yay, movement! ?

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Another update:  today I recieved a return shipper authorization  ??

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SAV?

Happy to hear about your progress, just get a brand new wheel that has no problems if you can.

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No, i meant "SAV, what does that stand for?" :)

Anyways, good luck and may you have a working EUC quickly!

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Oh sorry, it means "Service Aprés Vendre" (Service After Sales).

Thank you for your helpfulness and support.

Have to finish wrapping , then send this unit.  I'll be counting the days!  ☺

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