Top speed you can control on electric unicycle

[checho]

Top speed for me for now is 20km/h but would not like a EU that could do barely 20km/h do to the risk of a faceplant. What would be great would be an off road EU 18" with a 2000w motor with lots of torque that could easily take 120kg load up a 20 degree hill without losing speed or the motor overheating, and at the same time be able to go over road bumps without the risk of a faceplant.

[johrhoj]

I will know what my safe speedlimit will be after i have my new KingSong 18

[dmethvin]

There is an old joke, "It's not the fall that hurts, it is the sudden stop at the end!" 

If you "fall" from your EUC you are only falling a few feet. The majority of the energy is forward momentum. As @EUC Extreme says, it is possible to fall at higher speeds, IF you have the right protection and you just slide to a stop eventually. The problem is that most of us do not ride with enough protection to stop 40km/h worth of forward momentum!

[Pilotguy]

Unless you hit a tree head on , the 40 to 0 problem does not exist . It's going to be a slide and tumble . The distance to the ground does not change , so the face planting impact is exactly the same . A bigger slide/tumble to be sure . The Tour de France riders crash at 40 all the time and all they have is that helmet . We older circle surfers usually have at least the knees and hands protected as well . 

[EnPagés]

On 3/7/2015 at 11:30 AM, EUC Extreme said:

Depends a lot on the size of the tire. I think the street with 14inch 30kmh is sufficient. 18inch 45kmh probably suffice.
But. For Extreme is being driven out of the street, maximum speed 18inch should at least be 80-100kmh.
When the time on the town, your speed is approximately 10-15kmh.
In fact, I would hope also that other among the people much higher rate of speed no one would use.

I fully agree, it's not the same Extreme were you need the much power the better and ride in town must be more slow. I consider if you are able to ride at 80Km/h you can slow down and drive at 15Km/h but if you need speed Why not have the oportunity to push your wheel until the limit? If you are responsible of the way you drive and you know the risks everywere... If you own a Lamborghini you are not driving at max speed everyday but you have the oportunity to feel the limit in a circuit or a controled place.

The other thing could be the size of the tire and the weigh of the wheel. For a comfortable ridding of a wheel at 80Km/h with a good range, which is the Wh needed? How can you manage the weight of that big batteries?

I'm very optimistic with the Graphene and the possibility to use it on a electric vehicles as Unicycles

Edited April 19, 2016 by EnPagés

[WakefulTraveller]

I think that 50 km/h would be a good limit for the max speed of a regular EUC. This wouldn't necessarily be a safe speed, but it would be a speed where the rider would still be in control and capable of reacting when everything is clear. Anything faster than 70 km/h and the EUC had better be strapped on to the rider's feet and be equipped with suspension. Also, at any speed above 70km/h, the rider should be expected to wear a motorcycle bodysuit, helmet, gloves, etc.

Edited April 20, 2016 by WakefulTraveller

[Egbert]

8 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said:

I think that 50 km/h would be a good limit for the max speed of a regular EUC. This wouldn't necessarily be a safe speed, but it would be a speed where the rider would still be in control and capable of reacting when everything is clear. Anything faster than 70 km/h and the EUC had better be strapped on to the rider's feet and be equipped with suspension. Also, at any speed above 70km/h, the rider should be expected to wear a motorcycle bodysuit, helmet, gloves, etc.

 

are you kidding ? accidents at the rate inevitably lead to an injury.

I think 30km/h is a reasonable limit for max speed. everything above is only for 'professionals', not for 'normals' like us.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I guess it comes down to the question of how many people does a manufacturer mind seeing killed on an EUC.  I'm sure when motorcycles and cars (eg. Model T) first came out their top speed wasn't that high.  Now there are bikes like the Hayabusa that go 312 KPH and cars like the Hennessey Venom GT that reach 434 KPH.   Is it safe to drive at those speeds?  Probably not unless you have some good, controlled conditions and an experienced driver.  Even still at those speeds things can go wrong very quickly.  No one's banning those vehicles from the market.

I think the same rules apply to EUC's.  30 KPH might seem fast to some while others yearn for 40 KPH and above. When you have limited significant safety measures available other than some padding and a helmet or even an extra wheel, the chances of injury go up exponentially.  Should EUC's be capable of going 80 KPH or faster?  Difficult to say.  It sure would make for some bragging rights, but ultimately the number of people potentially getting killed would be much higher.  People get killed on motorcycles and in cars every day.    I'm sure maximum speeds will go up as the tech matures, but I don't think the available safety features will be enough to keep the death rates down unless they develop some sort of "Airbag suit" that envelopes the rider if they get ejected at high speed or incorporate some mechanical gyroscopes to maintain stability.

I sometimes imagine how it would be like to jump out of my car while going at 30 KPH.  I don't think I could run that off easily.  At 40 KPH it would be very hazardous.  People say it's not a problem on flat ground, but in reality there's tons of obstacles around like trees, sidewalk edges, parked cars, rocks, etc so I don't think you can always Ninja yourself out of that.  I wonder who's going to be the first to be killed on an EUC.  Someone has died riding a hoverboard when they veered into a bus on the road and got hit.  Whenever I see those photos of people's broken collar bones and other injuries I think yeah I'm pretty happy that my generic EUC doesn't go that fast!

[mark321]

This is kind of an old thread, but if it's still active I'd vote for 40kph. My current EUC is capable of 35kph and I ride certain sections of road/trail at that speed basically every time I get on it. And I'd go slightly faster on those sections if I could. Above 40kph is where I feel like things would get too dangerous for my tastes, but 35kph isn't that extreme of a speed.

[LorenW]

Personally I think 30 to 35kph is good as a max speed... But only if a EUC can be relied upon not to cut out unexpectedly at that speed, and properly employs tiltback and other measures.

Uphill and downhill riding at top speed (even if it is lower than 30-35kph) also still needs to be free of unexpected cut outs.

Stopping needs to be made as controlled as possible.

There will always be opportunity for human error when riding any kind of vehicle, and this is not preventable (and keeping riders from attempting to ride beyond where their skill and experience should limit them is also essentially not possible). But if we can eliminate unexpected catastrophic EUC behaviours, we will enter a great new time for everyone in this new industry.

I think we need to get to that point in the industry before going beyond speeds faster than 30-35kph.

Hopefully the top brands will lead the way in this regard.

Edited April 21, 2016 by LorenW

[steve454]

Not me,that's crazy fast.

[LorenW]

Too late. There are numerous EUCs in the market that already go 30 to 35kph. (Which is admittedly the same speed as bikes and electric scooters like the EcoReco M5, which I also own). The major problem is that their behaviour has been at times unpredictable at that speed, with sudden shutdowns.

You can overlean on a bicycle (side to side) or take corners too quickly. Not everyone wears a helmet and protective gear. These are issues that will be present on any personal vehicle.

All of that being said, EUCs can be made safer than they currently are (no sudden shutdowns, better handling of temperature issues, safer low battery behavior, better handling of regenerative braking downhill with a full battery, better tilt back behavior, etc), and hopefully the trend in that direction will continue... ahead of the push for more speed.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by LorenW

[WI_Hedgehog]

It is interesting to read this older thread, as contributors are talking about 30 - 35 kph limits, and 5 years later Gotway released the 100V Monster V3 that does 38+ MPH (61+ kph). People's desires drive competition.

Realistically, King Song should unlock their firmware, simply to be competitive with Gotway. Whether it is an EUC or electric hoverboard, scooter, etc., a good number of consumers want to go faster. Having splatted at speed, I rarely go above 10 MPH (16 kph) without protective gear. EUC high-speed videos (at least the ones I watch) generally show the rider with full-face helmet, wrist guards, possibly gloves, knee and elbow pads, a sturdy jacket and pants, and padded boots/shoes that cover the ankles. I've seen a bunch of great riders wipe out due to unexpected situations, and they get back up without issue due to wearing protective gear--it just makes sense.

If people were really safety conscious, they wouldn't ride an EUC; there's inherent risk in doing so, and as riders the majority of us seem to try to minimize it.

 

Perhaps King Song could write a small disclaimer and have the user sign that with their Serial Number, e-mail King Song, and King Song returns an unlock code. The user could then opt to re-lock their EUC at any time, and unlock it again with the unlock code they were e-mailed previously. Just because we want the ability to go 40 MPH, that doesn't mean we want to go 40 MPH all the time. Sometimes it's safe, often it is not, though often we don't go 30 MPH or 20 MPH or even 15 MPH because conditions dictate slower speeds prudent, so we go slower.

The benefit to King Song of unlocking the speed limit would be more riders enjoying King Song's product, and the benefit to King Song's customers who want to go fast would be riding King Song's excellent and often superior product as compared to King Song's competitors.

 

[Unventor]

17 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

The benefit to King Song of unlocking the speed limit would be more riders enjoying King Song's product, and the benefit to King Song's customers who want to go fast would be riding King Song's excellent and often superior product as compared to King Song's competitors.

I doubt this is going to happen as KS stated on several occasions that top speed isn't top priority and they seems to have settled on 50kmh limit. 

On top of this many contries have by law speed limit for EUC at 20/25/45kmh so going much faster than this seems likely to generate a ban than more people riding. It might be different in your place, but there is still a global prospective to this.

Personal I have absolutely no issues with KS current speed limits. Legally I can only ride 20kmh anyway. Yes I tend to cruise at 30ish kmh going much faster than this cause unwanted from police and I find it too stressful to constant scan ground and traffic around at higher speeds.

If you want top speed buy a GW. It is that simple. 

[WI_Hedgehog]

When a person lives in the countryside where this is not much traffic and the speed limit is 55 MPH (90 KPH) on a smooth paved asphalt road, 27 MPH (44 KPH) seems a bit slow between towns on a long commute.

We do not have a limit on EUC speed (Wisconsin, U.S.A.) other than "safe and prudent," or the posted speed limit for road vehicles, whichever is less (usually 25 MPH / 40 KPH in cities. I am considering a GW given the 22" tire and quiet motor, though prefer the quality and features of KS.

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

When a person lives in the countryside where this is not much traffic and the speed limit is 55 MPH (90 KPH) on a smooth paved asphalt road, 27 MPH (44 KPH) seems a bit slow between towns on a long commute.

We do not have a limit on EUC speed (Wisconsin, U.S.A.) other than "safe and prudent," or the posted speed limit for road vehicles, whichever is less (usually 25 MPH / 40 KPH in cities. I am considering a GW given the 22" tire and quiet motor, though prefer the quality and features of KS.

Maybe but if you quest is speed there is only one brand to consider. 

And as I said manufacturers need to comply to the law or ban on their products will be the impact. And eventually it will hit you too as less units sold makes cost per unit go up and more r&d cost per unit too. 

Like or not this is what global compliance and free market do for you too in the US country side. 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Looking into this further, I think the lack of top speed on King Song wheels probably is due to more than the local laws @Unventor mentions (which is a valid issue).

King Song seems to have used lower maximum continuous amp output batteries than Gotway, with the benefit of the chemistry having greater charge/discharge capacity and lasting for more charge/discharge cycles if charged at the factory standard (slow) rate (again, keeping the current down). Faster travel speeds draw a lot more current and heat up KS batteries much more, therefore greatly reducing their longevity. (The same goes with fast charge rates given the battery chemistry.)

KS flat heat sinks are able to dissipate less heat vs. Gotway's finned, so KS would have to allocate more width and therefore build new, very expensive molds for a new shell (in order to maintain the same level of quality)  This would possibly raise the cost of their $2,000 wheel to something like $2,500.

KS greatly values the "safety factor." KS seems to have similar (the same) power as Gotway based on nearly the same deceleration rate from the same speeds (31 MPH), so KS should be able to go as fast as GW. However, if running at the continuously higher speeds that GW allows with the safeties turned off and then emergency braking, the MOFSETs can overheat and fail under certain conditions, possibly resulting in Rapid Facial Reorganization (not good). I think KS feels "it's better not to pop and drop."

Lastly, out the the major concerns, Research And Development costs would be increased. At faster speeds there's more chance of wobble, especially on rapid deceleration. More testing would be needed to refine the firmware algorithms and mechanical design. Prototypes and complex mathematical formulas have a large cost, translating to higher product cost (the general guess from a manufacturing standpoint is about $3,200)

In the end, I think @Unventor is correct about King Song not seeing a significant benefit in pushing the envelope "too far." While I'd like to go faster, it shouldn't be at the risk of a dismount, which appears to be King Song's concern also.

[Justin Boivin]

I cruise at around 30km/h, with longer straighter stretches at ~40km/h. I'll do short bursts at around 50-55km, but I back off the moment I hear the beep. It all depends on the terrain. The longer, straighter, smoother, more easily visible, the faster I can safely go. 

Also I tend to take the same routes, so I know where most of the bumps and things are. 

[Unventor]

@WI_Hedgehog I put a like on your post above. Not because I think (I didn't go into deep research this why I use think) is correct all your conclusion. 

From all the debate about batteries I have seen I doubt that there is so much of a difference as long it is same size. As the chemistry reference you mentioned is the same.

About heat sink profile is one thing air flow going over it is something different and then contact with where you want to lead away heat is yet another thing. So comparison on size alone could easily mislead to wrong conclusion. 

Now every one that like speeds wants to go fast. Once they do that it only last so long, then they want to go faster again....

But as you go faster you increase risk taking a lot. If you hold a driver's license to a mc or car you should know this. Now speed do not create wobbles. It is a resonance in many things as suspension and steering systems, but for not this is nothing to do with EUC riding (for the most part).

However changing force vector as braking or acceleration and keeping this in control can cause wobbles. This higher forces you are to handle the more strain is on your body to handle these. That is why the risk you take is so much higher.

In the early days of euc speeds were no faster that you could run. So bailing and running of wasn't such a big issue. Going at 50kmh this is not possible for any one. In general safe speed as you can run of for most people are 20 kmh. Going 50kmh compared to that you increase the energy. For ever 2x speed you get a 4x energy. Should you fall at 50kmh it is much more that the body is designed for as most people can't run much faster than 30kmh. 

So if you want to go 70-75kmh the risk doing so....

I had an accident severing a long board skater taking my leave my should hit the curb straight on. Only because my gear had well fitted lvl2 D3O padding it didn't shatter my shoulder. Even 6 full grown people could pull it back in place. It didn't budge what so ever so I had to go into operation theatre in full anesthesia to get it back in place.

If that impact had happened at 50 kmh I do not dare to think of the result. Yes I know people crash mc at higher speeds but crash mechanics are very very different compared to loss of balance in an EUC.

It might be fun to ride fast..

But it comes at a price that most don't realise until it is too late. I highly recommend you think twice about this.

Should you go further with wanting higher speeds. There is only one band, Gotway like or not. 

I am not too keen on the speed focus thing at all. I rather be able to ride at reasonable speeds legal than taking high level risks.

Also I do think that riding at very top limits is something you need to consider too. Riding at 80% of top limit is so much more safe in any type of transportation. So buying an EUC to ride limit is stupid to me. This is boung to cause issues. The KS16X is a perfect example to this. KS should have kept it as a 45kmh wheel.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Unventor

[WI_Hedgehog]

@Unventor, thank you for your many excellent, thought provoking points, and concern.

I hold a vehicle license with motorcycle endorsement, and understand what you've said. Thank you for taking the time to explain, it is well spent and will be heeded.

It is unfortunate to hear of your shoulder, thank you for sharing your history, I hope you are doing well. 

(a point to you also) 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by WI_Hedgehog

[Rywokast]

any speed.. theyre easier to control the faster youre going.. however i think above 40 km/h you get diminishing returns.. like say i was to go somewhere going 50 km/h i would get there ~20% quicker than if i were to go 40 km/h, however i would use more than 20% more battery.. the wind resistance starts to get noticeable at 40 km/h, at 50 km/h it is easily manageable but somewhat annoying, at 60 km/h wind is crazy annoying and you have to fight it constantly, and you drain battery like crazy (i live in a coastal city so the wind is never purely from my motion).. it is a rush, but its not fun to do all the time.. personally i wouldnt want a high powered/expensive wheel that CANT do at least 50 km/h safely and easily throughout the majority of its battery, the 16X is an example of something that claims 50 km/h but it is not safe to ride it at that speed most of the time.. i do love all KS wheels for various reasons but i would never buy a 16X at the same price as an 18XL because of its unsafe top speed, whereas i ride constantly at top speed on the 18XL without ever the slightest worry of cutout... anything else in this price range i would choose a gotway

[mrelwood]

The upcoming Inmotion V12/V15 is said to have a top speed of about 55km/h. It’s not much above 50km/h, but considering the KS inflation (and assuming that the Inmotion speeds aren’t inflated too much), the difference is significant.

No word yet about the battery speed reduction though, but if it’s reasonable, the wheel is fast enough to replace my MSX.

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The upcoming Inmotion V12/V15 is said to have a top speed of about 55km/h. It’s not much above 50km/h, but considering the KS inflation (and assuming that the Inmotion speeds aren’t inflated too much), the difference is significant.

No word yet about the battery speed reduction though, but if it’s reasonable, the wheel is fast enough to replace my MSX.

i think if any wheel can do that safely and consistently.. it should be enough for anyone.. any faster than that is just used for short bursts and unnecessary in my humble opinion.. above that speed its just not as enjoyable with no wind shield and the fact that even the smallest bump has a good chance of making even the most seasoned euc rider do a superman right into the concrete lol.. i would argue that its good to have the possibility to go faster for that rare occasion, but its certainly not something i would miss... IM needs to actually have adequate batteries for once though if they are coming out with something that does those speeds... sure its great to be able to cruise at 50 but if i can only do it for 20 mins then whats the point, i will just pass over that completely and get something else... ~1600 wh bare minimum, i dont care about any other features if it doesnt have sufficient battery for its power/size then i dont want it, take out those pointless ring lights and put batteries in both sides

[WI_Hedgehog]

The speeds some people find "annoying" are interesting. Coming from a motorcycle background and living in the same city as Harley Davidson's world headquarters,

40 MPH / 65 KPH is a light breeze

45 / 70 is where wind resistance becomes a significant factor 

50 / 80 is a comfortable cruising speed where the wind is still gentle

60 MPH / 95 KPH is the limit of comfort, without gear. 

 

Mind you, that's on a motorcycle with no windshield and only sunglasses on a hot day (there's not much of a helmet law). There is a front wheel though, so there's no fear of the things that cause unicycle issues at those speeds.

I'm already wondering if King Song will release a 22" wheel this Spring...i have a 12.5 mile (20 click) drive to work.

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

I'm already wondering if King Song will release a 22" wheel this Spring...i have a 12.5 mile (20 click) drive to work.

They have said on many occasions they re not going to make a GW moster like wheel. And I seroiusly doubt they will be making 60+kmh wheels.They have said ever since KS16X release they are not going faster than 50kmh and that speed is like down on 3rd or 4th on priority list when designing wheels. 

I noticed just now you haven't listed to own an EUC but got a minPro. I think once you get on one wheel you might find control and speeds are not liked to what you know from Mc. first of seated riding have less wind drag. But you also have less control in case of an emergency.

Now you wrote above you found my post provoking.

7 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

@Unventor, thank you for your many excellent, thought provoking points, and concern.

It is not meant so, but I have seen so many people doing things and ending up with bad results. Riding an EUC is fun, conveniant and once you get the hang  of it not super hard. 

But if you don't know what you are doing then thing goes bad really quick. As an example this guy riding in swinwear only seated at top speed. Had a cut out  because it is down sloped and the EUC couldn't keep up the balance.. Yes on a kingsong older model though. ( note the pictures are grim to watch.)

But it seems he didn't understand why this happened so he kept riding top speed and had another similar cut out. 

We can find more examples, but thereason is I think as a community we need to keep us all informed, as manual say very little and you don't need to take a licens to ride.