OliverH Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 30 minutes ago, HEC said: Of course having 1.18 / 1.19 means that you don't have the safety speed limitation based on remaining battery capacity introduced in 1.20 however that version seems also to fiddle with the other settings which have been consequently changed again in 1.21. I personally don't consider 1.18 / 1.19 unsafe as long as you know what you're doing and observer the speed limits and remaining battery capacity. I hardly ever drive faster than 25 - 26 km/h anyway (and only just last week I've increased my waning limits by 2 from 25 / 26 / 27 / 28 to 27 / 28 / 29 / 30) so I'd not feel "restrained" in any way by this new security feature. In general as long as you do not experience serious issues and don't need any of the new features it's safer to hold od from upgrading for a while to see if any other hidden bugs or "features" night demonstrate with the new FW release. That's hard to avoid even with thorough testing and seems that KS's testing procedures are anything but that ... @KingSong69 wasn't the lift off speed increased for KS-18s only? Also I doubt that it refers to "famous" standstill folding issue - read the post from @tinawong and the facebook post - both are referring to v1.20 only and "briefly" / few seconds after power up. Neither of those apply in my case (FW v1.19 and several minutes between power up and fault). I don't think v1.19 was ever offered as a download - it was supplied as stock firmware on latest batch of KS-16s from @Jason McNeil and suppose to be "identical" to v1.18 ... You're right. And they pulled 1.20 because of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 On 12/08/2016 at 5:48 PM, HEC said: - I've not yet verified if the distance calculation bug was fixed (or got worse ) so I'll update this point after the test ride So I've finally managed to do a test ride today with v1.21 firmware. The "good" news is that the distance calculations has changed! The bad news though is that instead of original "inflating" of driven distance by about 24% it now inflates by 36% (so extra 50% more than before)! "Good job" KS ... Otherwise (apart of speed limitation at "low" battery level - new for me coming from v1.19) I've noticed any changes in ride behaviour or experienced any issues. I've rode for almost 50 Km from 97% to about 8% of the battery capacity. I've also made some recording of all 3 side LED pattern modes so I'll try to upload video later for those wondering how that looks. EDIT: I've just watched the videos of the side LED patterns and if you're tempted to upgrade to v1.21 because of those my advice is don't bother! They're beyond poor flickering like crazy with white cokour pulsing through all the time (which is I believe mainly down how the individual RGB LEDs in the strips are addressed / controlled by CB) with two new modes looking really terrible. In the daylight (even with overcast as I've had most of the ride today) the LEDs are anyway almost invisible even from close up so it will benefit you only during night rides. I'll try to make some more recording during dark as well but I'm afraid it will look even worse with much more pronounced white colour flickering. So IMO another time of FW / SW developers wasted which could have been directed onto resolving some more serious issues instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 They are killing the reselling used EUC market For sale wheel with 2000km, app says 3000km but it's a bug believe me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Successfully updated KS16 FW from 1.20 to 1.21. Some observations: I tried hard to replicate the "fail to start" issue and so far was not able to. Also, the wheel does not report "overpowered" anymore when sounds are off. Surprisingly I found another "change". Now it is easier to overlean the wheel. When measured, the wheel "gives up" at appr. 2200Watts instead of 2800W like before with 1.15 and 1.20 FW. With my 70kg it was practically impossible to overlean the wheel before. Now, if I push harder on start....bam, it gives up. Easy to observe this behavior when idling and holding a pole. I think the KS are trying this way to protect the control board/fuses from burning. This change could surprise unpleasantly some heavier riders when climbing a familiar uphill. The irritating loud messages when turning on the auxiliary button are still not avoidable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 15 minutes ago, DS said: Successfully updated KS16 FW from 1.20 to 1.21. Some observations: I tried hard to replicate the "fail to start" issue and so far was not able to. Also, the wheel does not report "overpowered" anymore when sounds are off. Surprisingly I found another "change". Now it is easier to overlean the wheel. When measured, the wheel "gives up" at appr. 2200Watts instead of 2800W like before with 1.20 FW. With my 70kg it was practically impossible to overlean the wheel before. Now, if I push harder on start....bam, it gives up. Easy to observe this behavior when idling and holding a pole. I think, the KS are trying to protect the control board/fuses from burning this way. This change could surprise unpleasantly some heavier riders when climbing a familiar uphill. The irritating loud messages when turning on the auxiliary button are still not avoidable i would ask KingSong if this behaviour is ok/wanted or something on your board is not OK anymore.... can not understand, why the max of 4s 67 volt and 10 amp =2680wh are not used anymore? Also i am not able to get my wheel to giving up this way... to the auxilary button...others reported the voice is gone now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Also i am not able to get my wheel to giving up this way... Yeah, could be only my wheel actually. For now, I don't see it as a problem. The previous "fail to start" was a random issue, I hope not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 17 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: to the auxilary button...others reported the voice is gone now? Dunno, not in my case. I confirm, the Voice Control turned off and when I press the auxiliary button - loud messages "Hello Kingsong" and "Bluetooth is connected". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 1 hour ago, DS said: Successfully updated KS16 FW from 1.20 to 1.21. I did succesfully upgrade too this weekend... 1 hour ago, DS said: ... Surprisingly I found another "change". Now it is easier to overlean the wheel. When measured, the wheel "gives up" at appr. 2200Watts instead of 2800W like before with 1.15 and 1.20 FW. With my 70kg it was practically impossible to overlean the wheel before. Now, if I push harder on start....bam, it gives up. Easy to observe this behavior when idling and holding a pole. I think the KS are trying this way to protect the control board/fuses from burning. This change could surprise unpleasantly some heavier riders when climbing a familiar uphill. Was my impression too that it tilts forward easier than before - just wanted to drive a bit more before reporting this. The 2200W and 2800W were reported from the KS16 or your own measurement? If reported from the KS16 is the current value "trustworthy" or too high as it ?was/is with early/all/gotways/ kingsongs? (Dont remember from which wheels it was reported exactly) I also had the impression, that after braking the KS16 tends to tilt forward - have to examine the behaviour more in detail (if its only when turning into a curve after breaking, etc). It was a very strange feeling to accelerate the wheel out of the turn with quite much tilted forward pedals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 13 minutes ago, Chriull said: I did succesfully upgrade too this weekend... Was my impression too that it tilts forward easier than before - just wanted to drive a bit more before reporting this. The 2200W and 2800W were reported from the KS16 or your own measurement? If reported from the KS16 is the current value "trustworthy" or too high as it ?was/is with early/all/gotways/ kingsongs? (Dont remember from which wheels it was reported exactly) I also had the impression, that after braking the KS16 tends to tilt forward - have to examine the behaviour more in detail (if its only when turning into a curve after breaking, etc). It was a very strange feeling to accelerate the wheel out of the turn with quite much tilted forward pedals... I had the Impression @DS is talking about the wheel cuting off......while i understand that you mean, that the pedals just tilt a bit more Forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 1 hour ago, DS said: Dunno, not in my case. I confirm, the Voice Control turned off and when I press the auxiliary button - loud messages "Hello Kingsong" and "Bluetooth is connected". Seams like the Bluetooth on all KingSongs can become a Little "glitchy"... For example my KS18: When having Bluetooth turned on -for listening to Music- i have no Front-Rear-Lights in the dark! Lights i only get with Bluetooth turned OFF..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 1 minute ago, KingSong69 said: I had the Impression @DS is talking about the wheel cuting off......while i understand that you mean, that the pedals just tilt a bit more Forward? Maybe it would have cut off if i pushed it more - i was slow driving on a rough meadow when i noticed the forward tilt and also when starting off with the wheel a bit faster. Could be that the ks16 does not shut off once reaching the 2200W but keeps on trying with this power. So if one does not stop demanding more power one overleans, if one reduces the demand the KS16 drives on normally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 40 minutes ago, Chriull said: The 2200W and 2800W were reported from the KS16 or your own measurement? From the KS app ver.4. 26 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: I had the Impression @DS is talking about the wheel cuting off... No, not exactly cut off, just loss of power resistance where the rider could (not necessarily) lose balance. 23 minutes ago, Chriull said: i was slow driving on a rough meadow when i noticed the forward tilt and also when starting off with the wheel a bit faster Same experience on a grass. That's how I observed this new behaviour. Does not happen on a smooth pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 38 minutes ago, Chriull said: Could be that the ks16 does not shut off once reaching the 2200W but keeps on trying with this power. So if one does not stop demanding more power one overleans, if one reduces the demand the KS16 drives on normally? Makes sense for me. I'd say it this way: If you push for more when the wheel reaches 2200W, you will lose balance, if you back off, you'll keep riding. And here comes a question: What is the purpose for the rest of the power up to 2800-3000W?....just spare margin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 20 minutes ago, DS said: Makes sense for me. I'd say it this way: If you push for more when the wheel reaches 2200W, you will lose balance, if you back off, you'll keep riding. And here comes a question: What is the purpose for the rest of the power up to 2800-3000W?....just spare margin? What will happens once you reach 2800-3000W and push for more, maybe because going uphill or strong wind? Cut-off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 29 minutes ago, EricGhost said: What will happens once you reach 2800-3000W and push for more, maybe because going uphill or strong wind? Cut-off? Volunteers needed Well, more seriously, I think with this firmware update you hardly intentionally can reach 2800-3000W range. Maybe just momentarily, as a spark peak of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Well if it is not a bug but a safety because you overpower the wheel not due to speed, it's better feeling unbalanced and recover than an abrupt cutoff or not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frode Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 5 hours ago, DS said: This change could surprise unpleasantly some heavier riders when climbing a familiar uphill. I'll keep my 1.19, that's for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Y Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Solved lack of power during abrupted acceleration This got me a few times.. now i make sure I move back and forth first a little before I take off. Is there any word getting MPH in addition to KPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvio Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Upgraded to 1.21 without problems. I like the new feature for turning off the RGB-Ligths. Does anybody have done an emergency brake with this new version? I tried it in the doorframe and I felt a sort of surprising powerloss at some point. I had turned off voice and there where no beeps, when this occurs. After turning voice on, I get an acustical warning: Be caution, over power. Can't remenber this sort of powerloss in V1.20. The KS16 backs up immediately after braking. Perhaps it needs some practice to do an emergency brake with this behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Maestro72x said: Is there any word getting MPH in addition to KPH. Do you mean for the app? If you have an Android phone you might try to give the below alternative app a go - in one of the recent updates it received option to switch between km/h and mph: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, sylvio said: Upgraded to 1.21 without problems. I like the new feature for turning off the RGB-Ligths. Does anybody have done an emergency brake with this new version? I tried it in the doorframe and I felt a sort of surprising powerloss at some point. I had turned off voice and there where no beeps, when this occurs. After turning voice on, I get an acustical warning: Be caution, over power. Can't remenber this sort of powerloss in V1.20. The KS16 backs up immediately after braking. Perhaps it needs some practice to do an emergency brake with this behavior. @DS had this powerloss also, and analysed a max Watt of 2200 instead of 2700Watt! i would report that to Kingsong ...so it seams there is no 3000watt EUC anymore...just 2200 Watt! why? no clue!! but a bad decision for me.....Especially when there is no beep warning!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 11 hours ago, sylvio said: Upgraded to 1.21 without problems. I like the new feature for turning off the RGB-Ligths. Does anybody have done an emergency brake with this new version? I tried it in the doorframe and I felt a sort of surprising powerloss at some point. I had turned off voice and there where no beeps, when this occurs. After turning voice on, I get an acustical warning: Be caution, over power. Can't remenber this sort of powerloss in V1.20. The KS16 backs up immediately after braking. Perhaps it needs some practice to do an emergency brake with this behavior. Same experience. Well, not a big issue for me because I still climb one really steep stairway uphill on a regular basis with my weight. But as I stated before this power limit could be a problem for heavier riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 10 hours ago, KingSong69 said: why? no clue!! but a bad decision for me.....Especially when there is no beep warning!!! Without statistical data, we can only speculate the reasons. My line of thinking is that the KS company as a first priority are trying to protect their profits. They may have increased warranty requests of burned control boards. We know how multi-billion company as NB failed with their high power model. Limiting the power via FW update (decreasing the current and burn probability) is the easiest and shortest way to protect their profits. Beep warning won't help much, you still have the option to turn on the voice messages, but the warning comes AFTER the loss of power when you already (most probably) have lost balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 1 hour ago, DS said: Without statistical data, we can only speculate the reasons. My line of thinking is that the KS company as a first priority are trying to protect their profits. They may have increased warranty requests of burned control boards. We know how multi-billion company as NB failed with their high power model. Limiting the power via FW update (decreasing the current and burn probability) is the easiest and shortest way to protect their profits. Beep warning won't help much, you still have the option to turn on the voice messages, but the warning comes AFTER the loss of power when you already (most probably) have lost balance. I've upgraded to FW 1.21 and now after about 60km no issue of overpower but I drive quite conservative. Anyhow if a burned board means a faceplant I'm happy kingsong is protecting their profits My only issue is the app for android I downloaded the new one from en.kingsong.com erased the old one and installed the new, but still looks like the old one no new options for KS16, in information it does not display the app version just the FW version ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 From Android is version 1.2, where can I download the 1.4, if not from the official site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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