Slaughthammer Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Dude, do you even have the slightest clue about what you are doing? Why are you using protected cells, when you need a BMS anyways? And why the hell do you use those crappy rebranded cells? There is a very short list of trustworthy 18650 cell manufacturers*, and a quite short list of EUC suitable cells. Especially if you're using a 1p battery, use cells which are capable of delivering 15A continuous at least. *Samsung, LG, Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo. edit: @KingSong69 was a bit quicker, but he is absolutely correct. And don't try to use these cells in an EUC, and especially don't try to remove the protection. A short circuit is unavoidable, if I take a look at your "craftmenship" at battery assembly... Edited June 23, 2017 by Slaughthammer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: Dude, do you even have the slightest clue about what you are doing? Why are you using protected cells, when you need a BMS anyways? And why the hell do you use those crappy rebranded cells? There is a very short list of trustworthy 18650 cell manufacturers*, and a quite short list of EUC suitable cells. Especially if you're using a 1p battery, use cells which are capable of delivering 15A continuous at least. *Samsung, LG, Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo. I was a half minute faster than you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneCry Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Thanks guys. Completed dissasembly but will not put these shitty batteries back in. The job may not look nice but I figured the cells would need replacing in a few months anyway so didn't spend alot of time fitting the new cells. Next build will be a proper one seeing as I need the expensive, long-lasting cells afterall. Intensely annoying mistake. EDIT: Turning out to be a nightmare to get the cells free from the circuitboard because I didn't spend enough time to do the build properly. Hotglue sticks too much, flows too far and makes my soldering iron smoke alot while removing solder. GAH! Never again... Edited June 23, 2017 by Cryptonitor Embarrassing myself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just a hint: I think the best bang for your buck cell right now is the Samsung SDI INR18650-30Q... Rated at 15A by the manufacturer, but successfully testet at 20A cont. discharge, similar performance as the infamus LG HG2: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneCry Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) @Slaughthammer wow those are expensive! Best match from available sources: Samsung INR18650 2,5Ah (rated max discharge 22A cont. Max burst discharge 35A) available for 230USD. I'm restricted because of shipping regulations on batteries. Most shops will not ship batteries here. Cheapest high-discharge (noname, 2,2Ah, max cont. discharge 30A) are only 76USD 0_o Do you think these will be at least as good as the old 2Ah pack? http://www.dx.com/p/rechargeable-3-7v-2600mah-li-ion-batteries-kit-green-6-pcs-374256#.WU1CreszerU EDIT: If those noname 30A max discharge cells work I could quadruple the batterysize! If I get more cells than I need can I just build packs same as the primary pack (but without circuitboards) and solder the two wires (positive and ground) from second batterypack onto the plug for the primary battery? Appreciate straightforward answers nomatter how harsh! Makes it easier to get better and learn when I know what I did wrong=) Edited June 23, 2017 by Cryptonitor Another question. And another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 38 minutes ago, Cryptonitor said: @Slaughthammer wow those are expensive! Best match from available sources: Samsung INR18650 2,5Ah (rated max discharge 22A cont. Max burst discharge 35A) available for 230USD. I'm restricted because of shipping regulations on batteries. Most shops will not ship batteries here. Cheapest high-discharge (noname, 2,2Ah, max cont. discharge 30A) are only 76USD 0_o Do you think these will be at least as good as the old 2Ah pack? http://www.dx.com/p/rechargeable-3-7v-2600mah-li-ion-batteries-kit-green-6-pcs-374256#.WU1CreszerU Obviously these are "fake" batteries, as there exclusive abilities (and look) are the same as sony vtc5, which are much more expensive!!! Dont you have a online seller specialist for batteries in norway? can you try "nkon.nl" ? dont know if they sent to norway..... take the batteries that Slaughhammer mentioned or the LG H2! (20amp-3000mah) For GOOD batteries you HAVE to pay about 3.5€ to 5-6€ per piece....all other chinese options are fake and thrown money out the window! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneCry Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 @KingSong69 So it's not just the numbers on specs that matter? Those cheap 30A max discharge batteries are from the same webshop that sold me the EUC which have lasted many years. Some online batteryshops in Norway but all expensive. From the Netherlands I could get them shipped ground-only (costs more than airfreight). What do you think about separating the circuitboards (that the batteries are currently soldered to and packed with) from the batteries and making a plug so I can swap batteries? Any reason those circuitboards are soldered directly to the batteries? If those circuitboards can be separated from the batteries I could get the expensive and the cheap batteries to fieldtest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, Cryptonitor said: @KingSong69 So it's not just the numbers on specs that matter? Those cheap 30A max discharge batteries are from the same webshop that sold me the EUC which have lasted many years. Some online batteryshops in Norway but all expensive. From the Netherlands I could get them shipped ground-only (costs more than airfreight). What do you think about separating the circuitboards (that the batteries are currently soldered to and packed with) from the batteries and making a plug so I can swap batteries? Any reason those circuitboards are soldered directly to the batteries? If those circuitboards can be separated from the batteries I could get the expensive and the cheap batteries to fieldtest Hey, you seam not to have the best knowledge about batterieSYSTEMS in a BMS.... Im theorie you can do what you say, but in praxis you have to take care that all batteries are on the exact same voltage level before you "plug" them together...that all does this BMS take care of ...So No, please dont think about that! there are about 1 one 2 REAL batteries that are !really! capable of 30amps...That are Sony Vtc5 and 6....the rest are rebranded (and same expensive) or faked crap...the ones in your link are much to cheap, no name and can NOT be 30 Amp continuous, they are definitely fake but sony vtc are the most expensive..... try to get 10amp batteries with about 2200-3000mah from a TRUSTED european seller...or this will not last long or just injure you! i guess nkon.nl has some for 2.5 euro or less a piece In your case...instead of investing more and more money in a EUC that is not good at all..try to save money for a MCM3 260wh (new about 500bucks) or grap one used mcm2,3 or 4 ...or a used Ks14, 16 or or something else a Euc like yours even with super expensive batteries will not become better, sorry, thats the hard truth! with only ONE 16 series pack it will never have real power or range.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneCry Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) @Battling Are you happy with those BMS boards? Have you noticed any swelling of cells or reduced batterylife since installing? Is there anything you would do differently if you had to do this again? Can you measure how many volts your spotwelder delivers and did you remove the shunts from your transformer? I made my spotwelder with a potentiometer to control voltage easier and a thick rubber kajigger that holds the electrodes. This makes it more versatile , safer, easier to use and more effective since the rubber kajigger puts pressure on the whatchamacallit while holding it in place so you need less heat to make a solid bond. EDIT: The cardboard insulators around terminals on cells are very important as they are the only thing between the nickelstrips and the opposite terminals on your cells. Forgot to put these insulators on on the last row I welded on the previous build and shortcircuit etc after just a small vibration. Do it right or it will not work... Edited July 5, 2017 by Cryptonitor Added warning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneCry Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) New cells damaged from heat, broken BMS or faulty charger. Replaced (did it right this time) all cells. But now the charger switches to standby after 5 minutes. When I power on it shows 3/4 lights on powerbar. Ridetime 5-10 minutes. Could it be the heat from packing the cells? Used hotglue to stick the cells together and spaceheater to heatshrink 5 layers of shrinkwrap. Might have overheated half the batterypack when I was working on it out in the seering hot sun. Q1: Could the cells be salvaged by charging them individually to the same voltage if they are damaged by heat? Q2: How can I check if the BMS is causing this problem? Assuming the charger and batteries are fine. Q3: Why not glue the packs together with superglue, glue the terminals on with conductive glue then wrap the packs in adhesive plastic sheets? This would eliminate the need for heat, make the pack loose less capacity and make assembly faster & easier. EDIT: Removing hotglue is very easy. Just spray electronics cleaner or dab it will alcohol and it will loose its bond. EDIT2: Used Sony VTC5 with 30A max discharge as recommended by @KingSong69. So cells should be fine from factory. I've had training and experience with welding/soldering so (in fear of sounding arrogant) that point is unlikely to be the problem. What do I do now?! Edited August 5, 2017 by Cryptonitor Edit1: Added tip to remove hotglue. Edit2: Added name of cells used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I only see one way: check with a multimeter all cells alone, the outcome of BMS of all cells alltogether, then there is a way to check each cells ON Bms solderpoints, and also check the charger with the multimeter.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) Man, You guys have serious balls playing with fire hazardous explosives like this. I started reading about 1000km on a double pack - thought maybe someone added one zero extra as i thought this was the 1 charge ride distance 100km today is no problem, but until we see graphene batterys in their full glory its not likely to happen that anyone goes 10 000 km on one charge - unless moving at 5-10km/h with 5 x battery packs on a 2400Ah (x5) Nikola But imagine graphene packs of 2-4KWah on a EUC with a 1h quick charge https://www.wired.co.uk/article/graphene-batteries-supercapacitors And on top - as the graphene is based from one of the most common materials on earth, when everything is final, this could mean INSANE range at a SUPERB price, but for now they claim graphene is hard to mass manufacture (Which I do not believe is true, you can do it at home with some fairly simpe tools, not expensive and even laymen did this way back - here is an example from 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3C5JgzhgE Nokia has been researching about grapehene since before 2011 - but it has been a true struggle to replace silicon for ALL big manufacturers that are in the graphene CA project https://www.graphene-info.com/nokia?page=3 and the money inflow is INSANE allready from the start.https://petapixel.com/2012/09/04/patent-shows-that-nokia-is-working-on-graphene-based-camera-sensors/ Now Samsung, that has the cash to push it, seems to be approacing the first graphene battery based smart phone, but only benefitting from a few of this super materials benefits. https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-graphene-battery-1018569/ Thus, as a i said it will likely be very expensive (the first ?5-10? years from 2020) but as graphene slowly will: - replace silicon chips (due to the much faster electron transport = much higher processor speeds) https://phys.org/news/2014-08-future-fast-chips-graphene-silicon.html - li-ion batteries (cheaper, more capacity, higher discharge with less risks..basicaly the perfect super capacitor) - bendable displays with no need for protection glass (as pure graphene sheets are harder than diamond) https://www.explainthatstuff.com/graphene.html - IP class that surpass IP69K as graphene with nano coating will basically make water bounce of the surface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code We for sure will be in the next technological era (2025-30?) when this breaks through on a big scale and all silicon manufacturers have accepted the fact and built new plants to support it...and by then, lets hope EUCs are still available and not banned by policiticans (as they seem to ban everything that brings joy to life of people that are just slight more dangerous than eating lettuce, organic and definitely not treated with any chems before cropping ) Nokia tried this 2012 with nano tech + graphene sensor to detect it https://youtu.be/ymbFfoiHbOg While not exactly the same, the "rest of the world" found this out around 6 years later - hail Nokia https://phys.org/news/2018-01-flexible-water-repellent-graphene-circuits-washable.html Nokia has been on this at least since 2011, and long before that if my memery serves me https://www.graphene-info.com/nokia?page=3 and is still pushing the subject albeit a bit "in the dark" as its not really industrially accepted yet (You know - money involved) When i first read about graphene, i think around 2010-12 (I know it was ages ago), I was sure it would just kill the market within 5 years or so, but now its 2019 and 2020 it seems like companies are just starting to scrape the surface with actual products. All this from simple graphite, - You can actualy make graphene out of an ordinare graphite pen and some tape - amazing isn't it https://phys.org/news/2010-12-graphene-pencil-sticky-tape-videos.html and it was on Youtube allready 2010 and likely there are videos that go further back as from what I have seen it started somehwere around 2004 Edited August 14, 2019 by Boogieman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy152 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 On 8/9/2016 at 8:37 PM, Battling said: 3rd episode : LG INR18650-MJ1 420Wh Different cells, but same tools and same method This BMS uses IRFB3607 in place of the domestic MOSFETs (HY3010P) used by the blue previous one As you can see, I replaced all the JST SM by T Plug looks like you know a lot about the subject...I think i shorted something on my kingsong 18s bms (uses 16series), do i have to buy a kingsong bms 16s or will any one really do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.