Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Further to my previous thread, asking about the kit - I took the plunge and went for it. Since I couldn't find any other Ninebot riders with it - it was a bit of a gamble. Some of you will already know much of the contents of this post - I just wanted a summery / have it all in one place for anyone who is considering the upgrade. The original thread can be found here. The basics are... Ninebot E+ is supplied with a 320wh battery, you can buy a 2nd battery from Ninebot suppliers, but then you have to dismantle the wheel mid ride to switch them over. The other negative to a battery switch out seem to be that you can only use the batteries down to 20%. You get more ride time with the bigger battery. Weighing in at 15 stone(95kg) I was getting 7.5 to 10 miles from the manufacturers battery (depending on terrain / what speed I would ride at). 1radwerkstatt offers 3 items in his Ninebot shop. A 388wh battery, it's a straight swap for your existing battery. C+ comes with 220wh E+ comes with 320wh It's (in my opinion) NOT cost effective for an E+ user to choose this option. You're paying quite a lot for very little gain. If you're a C+ rider who just wants to go a bit further - It's the option for you.https://shop.strato.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/"15S Ninebot" Edit. Having spoken to the seller, he's confident this battery is much better than the OEM battery, he says you'd expect a range to increase from 20km to 30km. I haven't spoken to anyone who uses this battery who can confirm. 2 x Plastic covers. The covers are for customers who upgraded to the full battery and have damaged their covershttps://shop.strato.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/9bCover 388wh Upgrade Kit Supplied as 2 x 194wh batteries with the larger covers. https://shop.strato.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/NinebotSET The 388wh kit is the big one, it's to be used with your original battery - giving a total of C+ = 220wh + 388wh = 608wh total E+ = 320wh + 388wh = 708wh total Of the two batteries, one goes next to your existing battery, the other sits near the motherboard. The motherboard one comes already held in place - so that it doesn't interfere with the motherboard gizmos. Fitting, The instructions are supplied in German, the most important thing is to make sure your Ninebot is 100% charged. Many thanks to KingSong69 who pointed me to this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=qLTQ4CE7rVA Having watched the video, installation was completed in 5 minutes. Performance Having only just fitted the kit I will update this section in due course. First impressions seem very good. I've been on a quick, hilly 7 mile ride - when I did this ride last week I came home with 28% battery left in the tank. This time I have 86% battery showing. As I set off, it was showing a range of 18 miles, when I came back it was showing 15 miles remaining - I suspect I'll have to ignore the 'miles remaining' and watch the battery percentage. So long as the sun is out on Monday I'll go for a long ride and see what I can get out of it. The wider battery covers push your feet about 1.5cm extra out from the Ninebot - it feels weird at first, like your feet are going to fall off the end - you soon get used to it. I need to add some kind of padding to the battery compartment, they were rattling round a little bit - I've not been confident enough yet to bump up / down kerbs. Thanks everyone for your help on the other thread, hopefully our combined advice can help others who are considering this upgrade kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Up and out for a ride this morning, put the batteries to the test. Rider & kit weight - 15.2stone, 96kg, 212pounds Previous to the upgrade, I was able to ride about 8-10 miles - depending on what speed I was riding at. From 100% charge to 20% charge. Today, I managed 22miles,(35km) with an average of 10.6mph (17kmph) and then I did another 3 miles in limp mode, giving todays ride a total of 25miles. I guess If I pulled the average speed back to 8/9mph, I may have been able to complete the full 25 miles. Overall, pretty pleased with the Ninebot E+, My knees are hurting though, They should get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lef38 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 hi Scully I'm a 9boter from France and just ordered 2 battery upgrades for my son and myself. I was wondering, with the upgrade, when does the limp mode kick in ? still when the battery shows 20%, or when the range shows 7-8 km ? in the second case it would be at a stage where the battery is near 10-12%, so you would really benefit of 100% of the battery upgrade. I'm asking this because I don't know how the 9bot firmware works exactly, which data it relies upon to decide when to switch to the limp mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Sadly it's when the screen shows 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lef38 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Very sad I wish they made a feature to manage these levels by ourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 20% really doesn't mean 20% it is just the crude translation of a safe working voltage that is read under load. With a little over twice the battery capacity you will have halved the internal resistance of the battery and halved the current coming out of each battery, both of those things will keep that voltage higher for longer so you will not also have twice as much unusable capacity or anything like it. You can see that in @Scully's figures. If the wheel did (say) as much as 10 miles before (probably less in fact) then increasing the battery size to 221% would indicate a range of 22.1miles. In fact it did exactly that and, by the sound of it, at higher speed. I.e. He got well over 100% increase in range. Limp mode is to protect the battery and voltage plummets fast when it gets low. I do not believe lowering the voltage further to stretch the range further would be worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurson Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 correct me if I am wrong, using different batteries in the same machine to charge will damage those old batteries. 9bot e+ use 2900 Panasonic cells while the new one use 3500 sanyo cells, everytime you charge batteries , Panasonic cells will get full power first and have to wait those sanyo cells , it causes Panasonic cells need to be discharge and recharged several times for your per charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, arthurson said: correct me if I am wrong, using different batteries in the same machine to charge will damage those old batteries. Imho not. 8 minutes ago, arthurson said: 9bot e+ use 2900 Panasonic cells while the new one use 3500 sanyo cells, everytime you charge batteries , Panasonic cells will get full power first and have to wait those sanyo cells , it causes Panasonic cells need to be discharge and recharged several times for your per charger. The cell voltage is in some proportion to the charge current the cell got over time. The lower capacity cells go up faster in voltage than the higher capacity ones with the same current. Since the battery packs are in parallel the voltage has to be the same in every moment -> so the lower capacity cells get less current than the higher capacity cells so the cell voltages rises with the same speed again. Imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 hour ago, arthurson said: correct me if I am wrong, using different batteries in the same machine to charge will damage those old batteries. @Chriull, is spot on, having different capacity, manufacturer, etc packs in parallel causes no problems as no one pack can possibly be any higher or lower voltage than any other at any point, so more powerful packs will take more charge current and give more discharge current. So the only possible problem is if that results in one pack supplying or taking too high a current, which is unlikely. @arthurson may be getting confused with mixing batteries within a pack, I.e. In series, that is a very big no, no! Currntly I'm contemplating putting 4 off 4-cell LiPo's in parallel with my existing 340Wh LiIon pack as it would be quite cheap to do, I'm just trying to work out the best way to balance them, but I don't foresee any problems other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 28 minutes ago, Keith said: Currntly I'm contemplating putting 4 off 4-cell LiPo's in parallel with my existing 340Wh LiIon pack as it would be quite cheap to do, I'm just trying to work out the best way to balance them, but I don't foresee any problems other than that. I think Vee (aka EUC Extreme) brought the balancing connectors of the packs outside the shell, so he can balance them with an external balancing charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tishawn Fahie Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 This is great news of course sadly I dont believe these can be shipped to the US - or am I mistaken? Also is the upgrade any good for the Ninebot P? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 Yes, it would work the same on the NBP Sadly, no - they don't ship to USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tishawn Fahie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 9/8/2016 at 4:18 PM, Scully said: Yes, it would work the same on the NBP Sadly, no - they don't ship to USA Uhh... that sucks.... Thank you!!@Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 To add, I made some modifications to the leg pads / battery covers. I dismantled the origional covers, and took the leather / plastic coverings off - I then added some of the foam padding (which came with the origional ninebot) to the new plastics, then re-covered with the leather. I now have more 'cusioned' leg supports (Even if they are a bit iffy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just an out of the box idea here - does anyone have good contact with Ian Sampson over at Speedyfeet? I wonder whether he could talk with the people at 1radwerkstatt to stock some of their extended battery pack sets and help ship them to the US as he seems to be able to ship large batteries over inside Gotway wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallexis Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 08/08/2016 at 1:47 PM, Lef38 said: when does the limp mode kick in ? still when the battery shows 20%, or when the range shows 7-8 km ? the limp mode depend only from battery voltage, battery capacity is below 20% when battery voltage is around 54V. It's impossible to change that by yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lef38 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 17 hours ago, smallexis said: the limp mode depend only from battery voltage, battery capacity is below 20% when battery voltage is around 54V. It's impossible to change that by yourself. thank you, but since I upgraded , this is not a question anymore for me, I have too much range, and never entered the limp mode again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 I've upgraded to the MSuper, so looking to sell the batteries.... Anyone in the UK interested? PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormash Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Hi. I'm considering buying this upgrade, but I'm a little worried about how much the side protrude. Can someone that HAS this upgrade tell me how much the panels go out from the white casing, preferably in millimeters? That way I can tape some extra padding/blocks of plastic to the sides and test if it works for me or not. Also, are the larger panels that house the batteries hard plastic or padded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 Hi @Gormash I've sold mine now, so can't measure for you. IMO it's borderline 'too much' you do get used to it - but there is a good 10-15mm loss off of the foot plates which can cause stability issues. The panels come as 'hard' plastic. I used some double sided tape to mount some of the NB protective foam on the covers - then covered it with leather (or pvc) from the original leg covers (I had a spare set). If you aren't sure, you could always buy the covers on their own - then if you're happy, buy the rest of the battery pack. https://shop.strato.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/9bCover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lef38 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Yes 15 mm, and it has not been a problem to me to get used to it (same for my son). You almost don't feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormash Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Thank you guys. I'll just find me something hard that is roughly 15mm thick and tape to the sides. That way I can get a rough feel for how it'll suit my driving style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Lef38 said: Yes 15 mm, and it has not been a problem to me to get used to it (same for my son). You almost don't feel it. You really notice the difference when you take them off again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormash Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Ordered a set yesterday. Now I just have to wait the (seemingly) 15 million years it takes to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbfrese Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'm really bummed we can't get 1radwerkstatt batteries in the States. Maybe I'll build my own -- does anyone know what kind of BMS board 1rad uses? Is it an "off the shelf" BMS, or is it their own custom design? Is it the same for either battery configuration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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