GotWay Msuper V3

[OliverH]

42 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

It could be that they don't trust customers to install the boards themselves so they want to send them to dealers?  That makes sense as having a customer install the board and mess things up could be dicey.  Ninebot sends out replacement boards for customer installs so it could be just a company policy difference.  

In Kevin's and your case though you would think they could DHL out a new case, screws, and 12 MOSFET controller pretty quickly if you're able to do some repairs yourself.  It cost me $100 to ship my entire 25 pound weight generic wheel to me within about 4 days.  They can surely courier lighter parts out quickly if they wanted to.  The question is why haven't they?  Do the 12 MOSFET boards exist?  Is there a problem or something with them?  They obviously are ramping up production of Msuper3's so they must have controllers stocked up.  What's the deal?

To anyone buying an ACM, I would be darned worried if this same situation happens to you (looking at you @OliverH), imagine waiting weeks if not months for a resolution...

My dealer has a shipment on the way with ACM V2 (12 MOSFET version), old pedals. This board is also used in the MSuper V3. It's needed for this high power EUCs. But we'll see if the solution lasts long or fails also (burned MOSFETs, voltage is seeking the shortest/ fastest path). There's some cons with dual MOSFETs. History will tell.

I'm sure Gotway will fix the bugs. As they've control on the source code they can fix it. Some others are "limited" in fixing it.

Sometimes I think it would be good to rewrite the code from scratch - doing it as a real software project.

I bought my MSuper V2 to be used as a test mule. Hopefully this year the main board will be replaced with a safety compliant main board or at least for improved firmware testings.

As we drive the EUC (on tours) the only challenge a slopes. We don't use it for high speed riding or other competition stuff. I've limited my MSuper with the beepings at 18 or 20 km/h. The only issue for us is the start from zero (hop on) bug.

[OliverH]

9 minutes ago, TremF said:

[..]

EUC companies know they are sending their products across the world now to bigger/heavier people yet haven't put anything in place to test how their products react with these people. I know there are warnings in the manual for things we must /must not do which cover the manufacturer BUT when issues like this happen surely it is their fault and they are libel for damage and injuries caused due to a faulty product?

The discussion is useless. As there's still no understanding that EUCs are vehicles and self balanced vehicles needs more attention with safety in mind. Even cars use since decades more than 1 brake circuit for safety reason. But we should feel safe to ride at speeds of 50 km/h with a <non> fault tolerant system.

If we've more injuries, accidents or dead riders because of not proper designed EUCs goverment will act in Europe and US and will carefully read "safety of macinery directive". There's so much requirement inside. If a CE certification would be done in a proper (limited scope, no driving condition) way nor EUC could be sold.  There's a regulation "Safety related parts of control system". Not sure if current mainboards would pass the tests.

[esaj]

20 hours ago, pArmitage said:

Here in America we believe in personal responsibility.  As in, if I'm going to ride at high speed, it's my responsibility to protect myself, just like on a bike.  That means how to lean into acceleration and when not to, as well as to wear proper protective gear.  If someone crashes on a bike at that speed, that's basically their own fault.  Besides, where I live, EUCs are already regulated under state law as basically being the same as bicycles.  So for me, higher top speed is great.  Because I'm willing to take my safety into my own hands.  If someone wants to ride at 60 kmh without protection, on wet ground, sunglasses on at night, while drunk, they should be prepared to face the consequences; whether that means crashing and hurting themselves or being charged with riding while drunk.  The poor decisions of others should not have an impact on my own personal liberty.

^  this, +1000

And before someone starts yelling about "normal people don't wear protective gear/have any brains etc", those kind of people should stick to 12km/h max generics anyway

Yes, this is a bit of trolling, but you can't put all the blame on manufacturers doing this and not doing that, always, always, ALWAYS remember that any wheel can fail at any time, even if "near perfectly" designed. That moisture that built up in the compartment corroded that lead and if finally gave up. Everything needs maintenance.

[EricGhost]

The problem is not if you crash at high speed but if you crash into "someone" at high speed, that's the reason because in America you have some of the car lowest speed limits in the world :-)

it's not that you damage yourself it's that you can damage others too, that's when limitation of personal liberty come into play unless you live in the desert

[esaj]

7 minutes ago, EricGhost said:

The problem is not if you crash at high speed but if you crash into "someone" at high speed, that's the reason because in America you have some of the car lowest speed limits in the world :-)

it's not that you damage yourself it's that you can damage others too, that's when limitation of personal liberty come into play unless you live in the desert

Yes, I get the point, and I've done that before (going hyperbole on the constant talk about too fast/too slow/not enough this/too much that ). I'm not saying it's "OK" that the wheels fail without warning etc, but this is kind of like the topics about "dream wheels". Exaggerating the stuff people write in those sort of topics, everyone wants an EUC that

• has infinite power/max speed/torque/battery
• never, ever fails in any situation, even if the rider leans 90 degrees forwards, it just pulls them back up 
• doesn't require any maintenance and lasts forever
• can withstand a fall from the orbit
• doesn't weight or cost anything

The demands are contradictory. The wheel must not cost over 1000€, must fulfill a gazillion standards and regulations, must have very large battery, must be fast etc...

EUCs are inherently unsafe. I don't mean from failures due to failing components or burnt fuses or such, just that you're standing on a single wheel, driven by a (somewhat) complex hardware and software logic, and has no mechanical brakes. Parts can fail, even if they have been working perfectly for the last 1000 kilometers. These things are (relatively) new, everyone's always comparing them to cars, which have existed for about a hundred years. It took decades to get even basic safety and reliability on those, and four wheels and mechanical brakes are something you can't add to a single-wheel device. And were still today seeing callbacks on cars due to problems and (as a new thing) software bugs.

Again, the point is that no single-wheel device will ever be 100% reliable and safe. These are not anything like plain software, where you can point to a mistake/fault clearly. Real analog world is a very, very messy place compared to the "true/false" digital logic. If (almost) 100% total reliability and safety is your goal, don't get an EUC, get an electric-powered kick-bike with mechanical brakes, use a bicycle or walk or something. If you are unwilling to accept the fact that you can get seriously hurt by riding these things, don't get one. Or at least don't get a fast one.

Oh, and saying it's "normal" to be overweight and that the wheel absolutely MUST be able to deal with the extra power it needs because of that is also nonsense. Get a more powerful wheel, use full protective gear, don't ride anywhere near full speed and be prepared to crash. Actually, that goes for everyone, regardless of weight.

Bring on the shit storm.

I'm not in a very good mood today, unless you've noticed   

[EricGhost]

My point is not about I want the ideal wheel now but more against the "there is no other way" approach which is right before the give up attitude.

That we are imperfect it's a fact but does not mean we shall not try to improve  

 

[esaj]

7 minutes ago, EricGhost said:

My point is not about I want the ideal wheel now but more against the "there is no other way" approach which is right before the give up attitude.

That we are imperfect it's a fact but does not mean we shall not try to improve  

I'm not saying there is "no other way", the wheels will improve over time, and become better, but it's probably going to take A LOT of time and resources. And they will never be 100% reliable in every situation. Everyone buys the newest wheel that just came out (hurried, because everyone keeps asking the manufacturers "when will it be released, is it done yet" etc ), and then wonder why there are still problems with it. I don't think the "big-name" manufacturers like to have faulty wheels out there any more than the riders, but try to do their best with limited resources (time and money), especially when it comes to the more "smaller big-name" manufacturers like Gotway and King Song.

People have grown impatient, because we're too accustomed to nowadays getting everything instantly. Try waiting a full year before you buy that model, maybe by then the problems have been solved. But by then, there's already something new out. Will you then go for the older, but proven model, or buy the newest of the new with even more fancy features/larger batteries/more power?

There are more or less "proven" older models in the market, for example, older IPS's (pre-Zero) seem highly reliable. Of course they won't go but around 20km/h (well, some newer "plus"-models go up to 30km/h) and they have smaller batteries   And there's that fancy new XYZ-wheel, that has gazillion kilowatts of power and its' own nuclear reactor (that some users have reported to leak / explode by itself)

Personally, I want a 30km/h wheel with large batteries (actually, I only "accept" one that can fit my custom packs), but I ride with full gear (including motorcycle helmet), and accept the fact that I might face plant due to my own error or wheel malfunction any time... I don't need an app, although telemetry would be nice, but not necessary. I can build it myself if need be. But of course, I'm not the "usual" customer.

Believe it or not, I do understand that lots of people who have no idea how it works, and don't care, they just buy the wheel, and expect it to be perfect, because it cost >1000€. Unfortunately, that's not the reality today, and will unlikely be for a long time to come. But, if you have a some tens of millions of euros/dollars to throw into product development, I'm sure you can get a very good wheel done from scratch right here in the "western countries". Of course the end result will likely be too expensive for mass market, but if you want it just for yourself and have the money... 

[EricGhost]

Never thought about you as a "no other way",  it all started with

Even if he wrote "any easy solution", I perceived it near a "no way"!

In my opinion if Steve Jobs was in the EUC instead of mobile business today we would have no smartphones but a lot of "smartwheels"  

I ride ks16 with 28-29-30-30, and rollers gear helmet included (komine jeans next future), never pitch strong at speed just a bit at the beginning from 0kmh to 15-20kmph, at 1rst beep go pitch back, so try to stay safe I want to enjoy the experience not to risk life.

Still I believe that a system today can monitor itself and if something is not going properly it can strongly downgrade its performances so that you understand it's better to limp home and set a maintenance ticket.

I ski, I motor bike, I dive 30mt patent, there are always risks but they are fought back by joining user wisdom and proper tools

[HEC]

14 minutes ago, EricGhost said:

smartwheels  

Well that's EUC brand name right there ... *Runs to patent office*

[EricGhost]

8 minutes ago, HEC said:

Well that's EUC brand name right there ... *Runs to patent office*

Right but they copied from smartphones , edited btw

[OliverH]

3 hours ago, esaj said:

^  this, +1000

And before someone starts yelling about "normal people don't wear protective gear/have any brains etc", those kind of people should stick to 12km/h max generics anyway

Yes, this is a bit of trolling, but you can't put all the blame on manufacturers doing this and not doing that, always, always, ALWAYS remember that any wheel can fail at any time, even if "near perfectly" designed. That moisture that built up in the compartment corroded that lead and if finally gave up. Everything needs maintenance.

We sometimes talk about which EUC is more safe. The right sentence would be reliable. There's currently no safe EUC. A safe EUC would handle faults, react and tries to prevent a complete failure (MOSFET, Fuse burn,..)..

With this definition in mind it's not the best idea to build EUCs with 50 km/h top speed. People believe it's safe to ride. We'll see YouTube videos promoting this. The normal customer wouldn't wear protective stuff. He trusts in this products. 

Personal light electric vehicle (PLEV) standard currently has in mind to limit so called class 2 vehicles to 25 km/h (street legal use). All other EUC with more than 25 km/h are not covered by PLEV, are competition vehicles and will not be street legal. PLEV is intended to be used in Europe and it looks like Australia (this could change with Brexit and Common Wealth partner ship).

In my opinion manufacturer should invest in safety development and not competition - main stream vs. freaks business. Otherwise it could happen that some companies change their status from manufacturer to ODM partner for non Chinese manufacturers/ distributors. Safety equipment looks like to be developed not in China. Just copying this technology will not help as there're skills needed in regulation/ type approval/ quality-/service management to get certification.

[TremF]

2 hours ago, esaj said:

Personally, I want a 30km/h wheel with large batteries (actually, I only "accept" one that can fit my custom packs), but I ride with full gear (including motorcycle helmet), and accept the fact that I might face plant due to my own error or wheel malfunction any time... I don't need an app, although telemetry would be nice, but not necessary. I can build it myself if need be. But of course, I'm not the "usual" customer.

Believe it or not, I do understand that lots of people who have no idea how it works, and don't care, they just buy the wheel, and expect it to be perfect, because it cost >1000€. Unfortunately, that's not the reality today, and will unlikely be for a long time to come. But, if you have a some tens of millions of euros/dollars to throw into product development, I'm sure you can get a very good wheel done from scratch right here in the "western countries". Of course the end result will likely be too expensive for mass market, but if you want it just for yourself and have the money... 

Some countries only tolerate EUC's because they are new and unknown. If people start having accidents on them due to poor manufacturing/testing then it will draw negative publicity. Also if we all went around in full gear including motorcycle helmet then it may also gain negative publicity as people wonder why you have to wear so much protective gear and is it safe for them you riding so close by.

Your "Believe it or not.." comment is very insulting. People do have an idea how it works and do care - it's potentially their lives on the line if something goes seriously wrong due to poor quality/testing!  

In my nine months of riding my Ninebot One I never even had ONE cutout/fall whereas within a month of purchasing my ACM has dropped on me at a standing start 6 times where I landed on my feet and once due to a low speed power surge where I did fall and jarred my right arm. A week later and I still can't fully straighten it, carry any weight and it still hurts a lot if left suspended rather than supported. As I had a spine operation on my neck area last year which may not be fully fused I could have ended up paralysed from the neck down! But I should expect this? No. When WE let it become the norm the manufacturers stop trying to fix the issues.

As much as possible EUC's need to be reliable. If people aren't riding around like idiots then they shouldn't expect the wheel to fail no matter what you say. What would you do if you bought a bicycle, motor bike, car or whatever and it didn't work as intended and caused accidents where you and/or others were seriously injured? You'd expect it to be sorted or replaced and I'm pretty sure if it was serious there would be a recall - not just manufacturers handing out engines/parts for people to fit themselves. A £1000+ EUC should work so long as it is used within it's safety parameters and not be expected to suddenly cutout at low speed or from a standing start as the ACM has been.

[pArmitage]

2 hours ago, EricGhost said:

The problem is not if you crash at high speed but if you crash into "someone" at high speed, that's the reason because in America you have some of the car lowest speed limits in the world :-)

it's not that you damage yourself it's that you can damage others too, that's when limitation of personal liberty come into play unless you live in the desert

That's not what I read here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/World_Speed_Limits.svg
If America is Green and Above, there are very few nations above Dark Blue.  So we're pretty much on par with the rest of the world.  And for the few places that have the fastest speeds, we always have Texas.  Yee haw?

Anyway, more importantly, I must reiterate that my state treats the EUC as an Off-Highway Vehicle if it has more than 750w of power.  The Gotway 18" series has 1500w as far as I can tell.  So riding on public sidewalks is basically out.  I'd have to ride on the street, or in a bike lane if able, more or less putting my own life on the line against cars, not pedestrians.  Even with a lower powered motor, Electric personal assistive mobility devices, or EPAMDs, are restricted to (and I'm using KMH because most of us on this forum are presumably not American/United Statesian) 20 kmh, or not that much slower than a bike at top speed on a flat straightway.  Part of our bike laws require that we have a way of audibly informing pedestrians that we're about to pass, which no EUC that I know of has outside of perhaps being able to blast music.  A simple whistle or blowhorn would of course suffice.

In any case, this more or less 'proves' that a higher top speed is good in some situations.  As it stands now, with any less powerful a motor, I'd risk being on a sidewalk and perhaps hitting a pedestrian, but the top speed isn't high enough to keep up with cars in some of the higher top speeds within the cities.  Around here, 64 kmh is the usual city speed limit at most, with residences slowing to 40 kmh.  The highest I've seen is 113+ kmh, up in the mountains.  Which means that any less speed makes me either a hindrance to traffic, or a danger to myself around much faster vehicles.

Frankly, if I wanted to roll around at 20 kmh, I'd buy a less expensive EUC.  Mind you, my state also doesn't have a law stating that motorcyclists have to wear helmets.  It is our own job to protect ourselves out here, but we aren't forced to if we don't want to.  I'd still say that the lack of a tiltback feature and the prominence of shutoff values is more of a danger than mere speed.  I can decide how fast I want to go; I can't decide if my batteries are going to suddenly cease providing power.  And in fact, unlike the Solowheels I see often around here, I'd have to have my EUC registered as an actual vehicle, which comes with all the same laws as driving a car, plus penalties for trying to drive on a highway.  (Which, good luck.  Those are 89 kmh minimum around here.)  As such, being licenced, we are expected to know our own limits as well as the limits of our vehicle.  Failure in this regard is no different than rear ending someone in the rain with a car because the tires on said car are too bald, or sideswiping someone because we thought our car was slimmer than it really is.

Really, I feel it would be better to be proactive about EUC laws.  For instance, looking closer at my laws, I don't know if I'm even allowed to use the bike lanes, even considering my slower max speed than full-blown vehicles.  If your laws are barebones or confusing, I would suggest getting in touch with your local leaders and helping form these laws BEFORE an accident happens, thus tailoring the minds of people who intend to use a EUC to a safer mindset as determined both by the government and people of your area of residence, as well as yourself, ultimately being a better educated, well-meaning, senior member of the EUC community.

[esaj]

8 minutes ago, TremF said:

Some countries only tolerate EUC's because they are new and unknown. If people start having accidents on them due to poor manufacturing/testing then it will draw negative publicity. Also if we all went around in full gear including motorcycle helmet then it may also gain negative publicity as people wonder why you have to wear so much protective gear and is it safe for them you riding so close by.

Here in Finland, we actually have separate traffic laws for electric vehicles, and they even state special exceptions for self-balancing vehicles. Are people scared of bicyclers with helmets too?   So far, the only reasons for not wearing proper safety gear I've heard have been related to inconvenience and looks ("I get helmet hair"). Personally, I'd be ok with mandatory full body armour if the law required it.

Wearing or not wearing protection, pedestrians and cyclist are as safe (or unsafe) around EUCs. I choose to protect myself, and I fail to see how it would make everyone else less protected (actually, using full-face helmet, I'd say they're more safe, as for example an insect flying in my face/eye might cause me to loose control of the wheel, were it not for the helmet ).

 

8 minutes ago, TremF said:

Your "Believe it or not.." comment is very insulting. People do have an idea how it works and do care - it's potentially their lives on the line if something goes seriously wrong!  

Not sure why you find that part of my posts insulting , but I wasn't actually referring to people in this forum, as they likely know (and want to know) how the wheels work, but riders around the world in general (probably far less than 1% of people owning a wheel ever visit this forum, but that's just guessing). But, those who are here and have read "enough" should know the risks already. It very well may be your life in the line if something goes seriously wrong, on any wheel.

 

8 minutes ago, TremF said:

In my nine months of riding my Ninebot One I never even had ONE cutout/fall whereas within a month of purchasing my ACM has dropped on me at a standing start 6 times where I landed on my feet and once due to a low speed power surge where I did fall and jarred my right arm. A week later and I still can't fully straighten it, carry any weight and it still hurts a lot if left suspended rather than supported. As I had a spine operation on my neck area last year which may not be fully fused I could have ended up paralysed from the neck down! But I should expect this? No. When WE let it become the norm the manufacturers stop trying to fix the issues.

Hmm, maybe you misunderstood me. You should expect a failure even on that Ninebot. Even though it didn't fail on you, you can check through the Ninebot-forum and see a lot of reports of burnt mosfets, firmware glitches and such. Is that ok? No. Is it expectable? Yes, given the track record from this forum, a member of which I've been for well over a year, we have seen and heard of lots and lots of failures on pretty much any brand (maybe with the exception of IPS, they seem to rarely breakdown? Still, I wouldn't call them 100% reliable either). The conclusion I've drawn from that a long time ago (and written in many occasion, although not lately, so maybe you've not seen it): no wheel is safe. Expect a failure at any time.

 

8 minutes ago, TremF said:

As much as possible EUC's need to be reliable. If people aren't riding around like idiots then they shouldn't expect the wheel to fail no matter what you say. What would you do if you bought a bicycle, motor bike, car or whatever and it didn't work as intended and caused accidents where you and/or others were seriously injured? I'm pretty sure if it was serious there would be a recall - not just manufacturers handing out engines/parts for people to fit themselves. A £1000+ EUC should work so long as it is used within it's safety parameters and not be expected to suddenly cutout at low speed or from a standing start as the ACM has been.

I do agree that the wheels should not fail ever. But they do. There are things that shouldn't be happening (firmware glitches, poorly tested models), and then there are things that are (more or less) inevitable: worn down batteries, electronics components, changes in riding environment, like wind (there's a HUGE different in power demand between strong headwind/calm/strong backwind!), temperature, even moisture. A recent crash (or even the wheel falling down) might have loosened something, and it only gives up days or weeks or even months later. Etc. etc.

I wouldn't compare an EUC (directly) to anything non-self-balancing. It is the self-balancing aspect that makes the wheels 1) fun and 2) very dangerous. That's why I've always advocated people to wear full protection gear and be prepared for a (very sudden) face plant at any time.

Unfortunately, I'm too much of a realist (or maybe a pessimist? ) to believe that the wheels will ever be 100% safe, either new or used. Not unless you add at least two wheels (back and front, like in bicycles, not side-by-side) and mechanical brakes   And then it's not a unicycle anymore.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Ooooh is it getting a little hot in here?    It's must be summa time!  Time to toss back some cool drinks, stay hydrated, and watch some Youtube videos.   In private. Some Summa time music

I think if we pull back a little on the zoom, I'm pretty certain we're all after the same thing - good times rolling around on a crazy one wheeled thingy.  I don't think anyone wants to see others getting hurt, me especially.  All those hospital stories and tales about broken wrists/ankles/arms/penises just make me want to buy more cheap AliEx protective gear which may or may not keep me safe.  I think the take home point is that it would be great if the manufacturers could provide customers with some solutions and be there to help replace parts which aren't working out properly. 

Everyone who buys a first year vehicle probably understands that there's going to be some defects and problems, but they should be taken care of under warranty.  That's all.  Now I'm sure Gotway is a responsible company, and they will take care of things in time.  Let's try to be patient and have faith that Linnea and the team are working on it at their own pace.  After all we're only 0.01% of their client base so they have 99.99% of other people to attend to.  It's nice that they are on the forums so they can be in contact with their customers.  I just want to see TremF and Kevin post some happy reviews at some point in time declaring that yes everything has been taken care of.  That would make me happy. 

Good thing I went to school to get my MBA in :

[pArmitage]

3 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

All those hospital stories and tales about broken wrists/ankles/arms/penises just make me want to buy more cheap AliEx protective gear which may or may not keep me safe. 

Not I, said the noob.  I can't justify buyng a $2000 product and not spending at LEAST $500 on protective gear.  If I'm going to be using the same streets as motorcyclists, I see no reason not to spend the same effort in protecting myself, especially considering I'll be dealing with the same idiot drivers.

[esaj]

11 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Ooooh is it getting a little hot in here?    It's must be summa time!  Time to toss back some cool drinks, stay hydrated, and watch some Youtube videos.   In private.

Nah, it's just me, being overly provocative about issues

 

11 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I think if we pull back a little on the zoom, I'm pretty certain we're all after the same thing - good times rolling around on a crazy one wheeled thingy.  I don't think anyone wants to see others getting hurt, me especially.  All those hospital stories and tales about broken wrists/ankles/arms/penises just make me want to buy more cheap AliEx protective gear which may or may not keep me safe.  I think the take home point is that it would be great if the manufacturers could provide customers with some solutions and be there to help replace parts which aren't working out properly. 

Yeah, if it were up to me somehow, I'd say no one should ever get hurt in any way and just have fun with the wheels. And hopefully everyone gets their wheels back in shape in no time, international logistics can be a bitch at times (it usually takes something like 1-3 weeks for my Aliexpress orders to arrive, but at times it has taken over 2 months). Guess I just gotta be patient   Plus at times, when the components finally arrived, I've already forgotten why I ordered them in the first place

 

11 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Everyone who buys a first year vehicle probably understands that there's going to be some defects and problems, but they should be taken care of under warranty.  That's all.  Now I'm sure Gotway is a responsible company, and they will take care of things in time.  Let's try to be patient and have faith that Linnea and the team are working on it at their own pace.  After all we're only 0.01% of their client base so they have 99.99% of other people to attend to.  It's nice that they are on the forums so they can be in contact with their customers.  I just want to see TremF and Kevin post some happy reviews at some point in time declaring that yes everything has been taken care of.  That would make me happy. 

Unfortunately, the defects and problems with new models seem to be (too) usual. I would love to see the manufacturers step up their quality control and stop rushing with the new models, but I guess the competition is harsh (another company releases a new wheel that eats the sales of older models, so gotta push out something new, fast!)    At least they've now stopped claiming IP65-ratings on most wheels (hint: none of them are, or ever were). Guess that's a small step forward?

 

11 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Good thing I went to school to get my MBA in :

Much less of a shit storm so far than I was expecting... Not even downvotes on my posts? Come on!  Somebody call me a dick or an idiot...

[Pasi]

I do not know is this about GW3 anymore. But I am same opinion of @esaj that everybody must always be ready that euc will  failed under you. I think euc has some kind of  computer etc inside of it. So who has not have a interruption with a mobile, tab, pc  or ....?

Thats why I ride 15...25 kmh (too much) with my euc, so maybe I never know what is the max of my wheel, but I feel safe (not really)  . I use helmet and wrist guards, . I have all possible covers but I do not want to wear them so I ride slowly.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

At least in the automotive world they are taking great strides in research and development.  I only hope EUC makers do the same.  Now, I think it's time for guess what?  A Youtube video!    I often refer to this video after reading one of esaj's electronics explanation posts... 

 

[esaj]

3 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

At least in the automotive world they are taking great strides in research and development.  I only hope EUC makers do the same.  Now, I think it's time for guess what?  A Youtube video!    I often refer to this video after reading one of esaj's electronics explanation posts... 

Look what you made me do, now I have to piss of the French also:

No relation to EUC reliability... well, maybe a bit?

[OliverH]

20 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

Ooooh is it getting a little hot in here?    It's must be summa time!  Time to toss back some cool drinks, stay hydrated, and watch some Youtube videos.   In private.

I think if we pull back a little on the zoom, I'm pretty certain we're all after the same thing - good times rolling around on a crazy one wheeled thingy.  I don't think anyone wants to see others getting hurt, me especially.  All those hospital stories and tales about broken wrists/ankles/arms/penises just make me want to buy more cheap AliEx protective gear which may or may not keep me safe.  I think the take home point is that it would be great if the manufacturers could provide customers with some solutions and be there to help replace parts which aren't working out properly. 

Everyone who buys a first year vehicle probably understands that there's going to be some defects and problems, but they should be taken care of under warranty.  That's all.  Now I'm sure Gotway is a responsible company, and they will take care of things in time.  Let's try to be patient and have faith that Linnea and the team are working on it at their own pace.  After all we're only 0.01% of their client base so they have 99.99% of other people to attend to.  It's nice that they are on the forums so they can be in contact with their customers.  I just want to see TremF and Kevin post some happy reviews at some point in time declaring that yes everything has been taken care of.  That would make me happy. 

Good thing I went to school to get my MBA in :

Well said

But people getting annoyed by the bad quality, lacks in engineering and testing. Customers in America, Australia and Europe having a total different understanding getting a value for the money. I personally get angry when I see/ realise how a manufacturer destroys my lovely hobby/ passion. I see a business case behind EUCs. Unbelievable how a manufacturer can survive with this low volumes. If you try to explain how to rise sales volume and you offer skills and than see how they're going more freak business than before you need to step back and let clean the market with all bad reputation happens in between.

What I call freaks business is this more power, more speed EUCs. It does not cover green transportation (meeting targets of Kyoto protocol), to commute with the EUC. I take my EUC at least 50 km by train/ car to ride it legal in France. I'm infected by the EUC virus. I've seen high fines in our riding crew over here, catched by police in Switzerland, I know stories from Germany dealing with the same problem. I could get off at least one car if we can use the EUCs. We currently have two cars in the family and one more in restoration. 

The solution in sales volume is dealing with regulations. If a manufacturer would like to develop markets he needs to go in this matter. Maybe small manufacturers are more open to a joined deal or will deliver at least semi finished products.

[Pasi]

So in Switzerland it is not allowed to ride euc? Sh.t. I have been there from 1980. Thun, Interlaken , Axalp, last time 2 years ago. Sorry no,  last year in Luzern.

You have very challenging roads there comparing with finish very flat roads??

[OliverH]

31 minutes ago, Pasi said:

So in Switzerland it is not allowed to ride euc? Sh.t. I have been there from 1980. Thun, Interlaken , Axalp, last time 2 years ago. Sorry no,  last year in Luzern.

You have very challenging roads there comparing with finish very flat roads??

It's allowed with a type approved EUC, so it's not possible as there's no EUC available to pass pre testing process to get type approval. Such a nice country with so nice tracks available and you can't use it street legal. A shame for a country of commuters. The EUC would perfect fit in the door to door problem. 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

2 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

At least in the automotive world they are taking great strides in research and development.  I only hope EUC makers do the same.  Now, I think it's time for guess what?  A Youtube video!    I often refer to this video after reading one of esaj's electronics explanation posts... 

 

I really NEED a Turbo Encabulator!

It will work on my EUC, won't it?

[spikes2020]

Where can i get one (USA) and how much?

 

How hard is it to become a dealer of these?