Luca Morello Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Kingsong don't have IP protection . If it rain can became dangerous with an eventually shutdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 10 hours ago, Luca Morello said: Kingsong don't have IP protection . If it rain can became dangerous with an eventually shutdown They have atleast "some" protection as you can see various gaskets around openings. But it is up to riders to open their wheels up and see if there is something they can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 The problem is also that the instruction does not tell true, to inform a driver about risk. My experience is with a wheel where is information "don't exceed 20km/h or max speed is 20 km/h". So, how a driver can measure it if there is not app gps velocity can be vary. Also there is not any info what will happen if the speed will be exceeded. I though that the wheel just will not go faster then 20 km/h, but no it has shut off (catapulta) at little bumpy surface or from ground level to downhill where gravity do the job itself helping to overspeed. I asked the seller what is that? Aswer - You exeeded 20km/h speed. So my question was. Can You show me how to drive at 19 km/h safely for 1km distance, but I will choose the road? . So far , no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Robi Bobi said: So my question was. Can You show me how to drive at 19 km/h safely for 1km distance, but I will choose the road? . So far , no answer. You won't get an answer from them - it might be reasonable to expect them to mention a top speed, but it's not their job to tell you how to do that on any type of surface or gradient. Only practice, experience, and a reliable GPS app will tell you how to do that EUC's are still relatively new technology, so it is unrealistic to expect fantastic documentation or that the machine you are about to step on is foolproof in every way...This is why new riders should spend a lot of time online researching their first wheel - often you find out a lot more on forums than you do in Chinese instruction manuals. CBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snurre Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Robi Bobi said: So, how a driver can measure it if there is not app gps velocity can be vary. That's what beeping and pedal tilt-back warnings are for. 1 hour ago, Robi Bobi said: I though that the wheel just will not go faster then 20 km/h A self-balancing wheel cannot have a throttled top speed. Imagine what happens if you increase your forward lean but the wheel decides not to go any faster. Bumps, slopes and weight will decrease the safety margins of a do-not-go-faster-than speed and I agree that the manuals could be a little bit more informative about this. So @Cerbera's advice is precisely to the point: 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: This is why new riders should spend a lot of time online researching their first wheel - often you find out a lot more on forums than you do in Chinese instruction manuals. (I wish I would have had that advice before my first wheel dropped me off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 15 hours ago, Luca Morello said: Kingsong don't have IP protection . If it rain can became dangerous with an eventually shutdown At least Kingsong has a much better water protection as Gotway, but to be honest: No EUC has real IP protection....but in General the Problem is not shutting down, the main Problem is to get your batteries destroyed over a Long term. 1 hour ago, Robi Bobi said: The problem is also that the instruction does not tell true, to inform a driver about risk. My experience is with a wheel where is information "don't exceed 20km/h or max speed is 20 km/h". So, how a driver can measure it if there is not app gps velocity can be vary. Also there is not any info what will happen if the speed will be exceeded. I though that the wheel just will not go faster then 20 km/h, but no it has shut off (catapulta) at little bumpy surface or from ground level to downhill where gravity do the job itself helping to overspeed. I asked the seller what is that? Aswer - You exeeded 20km/h speed. So my question was. Can You show me how to drive at 19 km/h safely for 1km distance, but I will choose the road? . So far , no answer. Seams you did not Research a lot over EUC's before buying one, or? No EUC in the world has something like "dont go over a certain Speed"....It is not possible for a self balancing vehicle/hoverboard/Segway/EUC....as Long as you push....the vehicle has to go Forward with you..... All what EUC's can do to help, is warn you by -beeping -vibrating -tiltback that you are near the "max Speed"....it is always the Driver who has to slow down then! I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Don't agree . 1.There should be information that a whell will do cut off at speed ... don't exceed the speed it can.... But not max speed is... 2 I don't know gps to show me correct speed. Too long interval for that. Gpses lying ~5km/h. More accurate is bike speedometer with a sensor on the wheel. 3 First what a new customer do before use an item - read the instruction. I did not find any info in the instruction to read internet forums or www to get more info about the wheel. If a wheel can go up to 20 km/h in my opinion should be restricted to 15 km/h leaving extra 5 km/h safety offset for bumpy roads, when go fast and downhill come (we can't see ground level when and how gravity changes to increase drivers speed easly) or blow back strong wind. The tilt back does not work so quick in these situations. The tilt back is ok only on ground level. I think that Ks 16 has the safety speed offset ,~13-15 km/h. Because when lifted up can spin 43 km/h but is restricted to max 30 km/h. If i set up tilt back at max 30 km/h in the app I don't feel any tilt back in real on the wheel when drive at ground level. Just the wheel not go faster. I can manage to keep balance. Michael Jackson colud do 45 deg angle forward and back on the ground, I can do few on pedals to keep me on when the Ks will not accelerate above 30 km/m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Morello Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 In Italy max speed is 25km/h,after it is equals to motor(Driver's license, insurance, registration) .It is right , because for to travel with unicycle too much danger go more 25 km/h for me and another people . Different if I use a hoverkart. It is more sure also more 25 km/h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 8 hours ago, Robi Bobi said: My experience is with a wheel where is information "don't exceed 20km/h or max speed is 20 km/h". So, how a driver can measure it ... On my KS16 I could set alarm3 to 30 and tiltback to 30, and the other 2 alarms to zero. I did that after I had enough trust that the wheel can handle that (I drove once more than 38 with it for a test, more was not possible because of the tiltback, I would have fallen off in front of the wheel, if I would have pushed it more). Even if I don't hear the beep (which only happens when there is strong headwind) the tiltback is prominent enough so that I always recognize it. Don't know how this is with other wheels. 6 hours ago, Snurre said: A self-balancing wheel cannot have a throttled top speed. Imagine what happens if you increase your forward lean but the wheel decides not to go any faster. I don't completely agree with that. It is like if you stand on flat ground, you also don't always stand in exactly 90 degrees angle. You can lean forward and backward on a floor quite heavily, and still don't fall. The same would be possible on a wheel or on a Segway. I'm convinced that a maxspeed could be programmed in the control software - and it is the drivers responsibility not to lean forward too much if this is reached, like if you would do when you stand on flat ground. It is not clear to me why no vendor has tried this until now, but maybe it is to difficult to differentiate for the driver. 2 hours ago, Robi Bobi said: I don't know gps to show me correct speed. Too long interval for that. Gpses lying ~5km/h. More accurate is bike speedometer with a sensor on the wheel. The Garmin GPS'es I use show the speed with an accuracy of +/- 1 km/h. If I compare it with the GPS speed on my Samsung Galaxy S5 then it is also in the same range of +/- 1 km/h of the Garmin, so I think the GPS speed is quite accurate. I also see that when I activate the cruisecontrol of my car, both GPS'es show nearly same speed (which is up to 10 km/h below the speed the tachometer shows). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, HermanTheGerman said: It is like if you stand on flat ground, you also don't always stand in exactly 90 degrees angle. You can lean forward and backward on a floor quite heavily, and still don't fall. The same would be possible on a wheel or on a Segway. This is not exactly correct. Yes, you can lean forward and backward while standing on flat ground, but only as long as you center of gravity stays behind your toes and in front of your heels. As an EUC/Segway has a Wheel on the ground, there is no room for moving your wheigt fore or aft, because the wheel is only touching the ground in one spot. therefore, if you lean forward and the wheel does not accelerate accordingly, you faceplant. You can not defy the laws of physics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 45 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: This is not exactly correct. Yes, you can lean forward and backward while standing on flat ground, but only as long as you center of gravity stays behind your toes and in front of your heels. As an EUC/Segway has a Wheel on the ground, there is no room for moving your wheigt fore or aft, because the wheel is only touching the ground in one spot. therefore, if you lean forward and the wheel does not accelerate accordingly, you faceplant. You can not defy the laws of physics! You are not completely right, because you still put force on the wheel with your feet. You would be right if you would be a stiff body which is nailed down to the wheel, but this is not the case. Accelerating/decelerating is also possible by standing straight, but standing on the toetips or on the heels, with all variants in between. Together with forward/backward leaning this offers a lot of possibilities. It is difficult to show that on a wheel, but easy on a segway or Mini-Pro. I was able to lean forward quite a bit on a MiniPro but not moving it by having half the weight on the heels. So there is some small room for movement on the wheel without falling off, but as mentioned above I don't know if this is enough to drive safely at a defined maxspeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Gps at high speed measure speed ok but at low speed not, 1s interval/changes position if i am right. Also depend where you are, in montains sat signals are worse. Herman how you obtain the 38? Do you have unlocked top speed at the app in your KS16? For me safety drive is slow down before downhill, slow down before top hill, at bumpy road use legs like shock absorbers. But I think that safety speed offset about 30% above top speed reached by acceleration at ground level could save a lot face plants. I dont mean about brake when exceeded but keep on, slow down by wind drags or tilt back, dont cut off. I think that the player mode in the Ks app give very stiff pedals to show that is possible to drive KS like by stand on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 3 hours ago, Luca Morello said: In Italy max speed is 25km/h,after it is equals to motor(Driver's license, insurance, registration) .It is right , because for to travel with unicycle too much danger go more 25 km/h for me and another people . Different if I use a hoverkart. It is more sure also more 25 km/h Thanks for the info. I am going to Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 No it can not stay leveled at some set top speed, the motor can only change it's speed and that's all it does. If it stops accelerating at a set top speed then the pedals will simply start folding forward if you push. If you hit a bump at top speed and your body goes forward it has to accelerate to pull you back up, the wheel does not know if you hit a bump or not. Same result as a cutoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 " If you hit a bump at top speed and your body goes forward it has to accelerate to pull you back up" Yes if You don't have feet. You always do balance correction by feet, when you stand, stand in windy conditions, skies, roolers, and drivnig on a EUC. Pedals will forld if a wheel will be off, or after cut off. My friend it is not the same. You have a time to correct your body.If you fall that will be more horizontal fall. Cut off is in ms, or ns, no time to do any thing,it is like a tiket to a hospital. It Is like a hit at top speed against a 20cm high barrier in scizor kind where your face is in ms close to the ground. Do you drive at very angle position at high speed? At high speed driver keep more vertical position few degreeses to force wind drags and go on. In fact if you set up your top speed to 10km/h and you try accelerate strong as at normal high speed wheel and the wheel stop accelerate at the 10 yes it drop you off. The accelerated driver has also momentum. Example: if you push a person on rollers to gvie an acceleration and release will mange to keep the balance? Big chance that yes. Or a person standing on the ground with head wind 50km/h. If the wind will switch off rapidly will not manage to keep on, that is cut off, but it is not happen because runnig driver has a momentum. The wind not switch off rapidly in real. As you accelerate to higher speed G force go down. But there are some other conditions where you right. Dirving up slope hill at top speed, where we push down more stress on pedals and position is more angle. So near the top hill where the wheel has plenty energy to climb up, the gavity release + drives angle position to push forward. At this circumstances rapidly stop acceleration can cause a drop off. But also it cause in many occasions cut off. Similar circumstances are when driver come to slope down, There is more energy than is needed + gravity + forward driver position where a wheel accelerate it self easy ti exceed top speed and cut off. So maybe like that: if a driver reaching top speed at very high acceleration atfer top speed the acceleration should decrease to not drop driver off than no accelerate to slow down by wind drags , tilt back to the nominal top speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Wow, I cannot believe this discussion keeps on being re-enacted, nor why everyone's IQ seems to drop to zero when they discuss it. It has all been discussed before and the bottom line is it is Torque - not acceleration - that is holding the rider up, the faster you go the less torque you have got in hand. acceleration is a byproduct of torque, if your weight is pressing forward (and it doesn't matter a fig which bit of your foot is doing it) the wheel has to generate a torque force against that weight and that results in acceleration - I.e. HAS TO result in acceleration - or you fall off. And as for those of you that think you can actually balance and/or lean back at the point this happens or at the point where the 'safe' wheel being postulated theoretically says:"OK I'm doing X kph I'm not going to go any faster!" I would suggest that you have not <yet> experienced a faceplant, or you would know better. And for those that are expert mono skiers with super human balancing skills I suggest you turn your wheel off and see exactly how long you can maintain your balance on its peddles, as that is EXACTLY the state this theoretical max speed limited wheel would be in when it hit its maximum never exceed speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilmann Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Keith said: Wow, I cannot believe this discussion keeps on being re-enacted, nor why everyone's IQ seems to drop to zero when they discuss it. Woooozaaa, @Keith, wooooooooooozaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Keith said: Wow, I cannot believe this discussion keeps on being re-enacted, nor why everyone's IQ seems to drop to zero when they discuss it. It has all been discussed before and the bottom line is it is Torque - not acceleration - that is holding the rider up, the faster you go the less torque you have got in hand. acceleration is a byproduct of torque, if your weight is pressing forward (and it doesn't matter a fig which bit of your foot is doing it) the wheel has to generate a torque force against that weight and that results in acceleration - I.e. HAS TO result in acceleration - or you fall off. And as for those of you that think you can actually balance and/or lean back at the point this happens or at the point where the 'safe' wheel being postulated theoretically says:"OK I'm doing X kph I'm not going to go any faster!" I would suggest that you have not <yet> experienced a faceplant, or you would know better. And for those that are expert mono skiers with super human balancing skills I suggest you turn your wheel off and see exactly how long you can maintain your balance on its peddles, as that is EXACTLY the state this theoretical max speed limited wheel would be in when it hit its maximum never exceed speed. Applause, Keith! i could not have said it better, really! This discussion comes back and back again.... would add something to it: if you think your wheel can stay on -lets say exact 20kmh- and not go faster....can be you also have to stay the whole time at this speed :-) when leaning has no effect anymore on the wheel,how in the hell should the wheel know what you want??? all those who think that this all is possible should go and make a new wheel and became inventor....how the hell have this million dollar companys like ninebot, segway and inmotion just oversee this simple solution? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 OK guys, I believe you now. On 29.11.2016 at 10:11 PM, Robi Bobi said: Herman how you obtain the 38? Do you have unlocked top speed at the app in your KS16? You can't "unlock" or something the KS16, it's just possible to set Alarm3 and tiltback to 30 km/h, not more. It is, however, easy to exceed the speed by leaning forward and pressing down the pedals in front, if you don't care about beeping and the tiltback doesn't disturb you - until you either fall off or decelerate again. I never was brave enough to exaggerate that, but a few months ago I did a test once, if I can trust the wheel enough to set both alarm3 and tiltback to 30 km/h, and reached 39 maxspeed at this test (on Kingsong App, which may be 36 or 37 km/h in reality). While I'm normally riding I reach at maximum between 30 and 33, the above was only a trust test, which I do not want to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 My former wheel with max speed 20 km/h gave me 2 times cut off. And will do that every time when i want reach the top speed. I can not drive safe at 20 km/h on the wheel, even is not safe at 19 km/h . Max is 15, 5 left as a safety offset. But current one the KS16 with max 30 km/h give me that speed and so far after 400km done never cuted off at top speed. Can you explain me it? Both came with instruction manual for the first one max speed 20km/h for the KS16 - 30km/h. Is it not open topic abuout unexpected cut off? I don't care how much money Segway, Nineboot, puted in to their project, maybe it was a garage project as many. Any idea can provide some more to improve safety drive. If You wont still drive on EUCes with cut offs at top speed that your choice. But more torque , more speed is simply way to a hospital, as some one said before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, HermanTheGerman said: OK guys, I believe you now. You can't "unlock" or something the KS16, it's just possible to set Alarm3 and tiltback to 30 km/h, not more. It is, however, easy to exceed the speed by leaning forward and pressing down the pedals in front, if you don't care about beeping and the tiltback doesn't disturb you - until you either fall off or decelerate again. I never was brave enough to exaggerate that, but a few months ago I did a test once, if I can trust the wheel enough to set both alarm3 and tiltback to 30 km/h, and reached 39 maxspeed at this test (on Kingsong App, which may be 36 or 37 km/h in reality). While I'm normally riding I reach at maximum between 30 and 33, the above was only a trust test, which I do not want to repeat. Thx Herman, I expected that answer or another: Milbay has on their website, that by their app with a code for request also KS14 and 16 can be ulocked more than 30km/h . I am not sure that is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, Robi Bobi said: My former wheel with max speed 20 km/h gave me 2 times cut off. And will do that every time when i want reach the top speed. I can not drive safe at 20 km/h on the wheel, even is not safe at 19 km/h . Max is 15, 5 left as a safety offset. But current one the KS16 with max 30 km/h give me that speed and so far after 400km done never cuted off at top speed. Can you explain me it? As you already said: The KS16 has just a lot more reserve than many other wheels. I have heard that cutoff speed is even above 40 km/h, but can't say if this is true, maybe others know more about that. 14 minutes ago, Robi Bobi said: Milbay has on their website, that by their app with a code for request also KS14 and 16 can be ulocked more than 30km/h . I am not sure that is true. I believe that such a hack is easily possible. But I'll definitely not belong to the people who try that out. A fall at 20 km/h is already not funny, don't need to try it out at higher speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 By the way. One Chinese Gotway Acm seller added on the ebay.co.uk info that top speed is 45km/h but recomended max 36 km/h for safe. That big + to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Robi Bobi said: Max is 15, 5 left as a safety offset. That is a good idea, 25 percent in reserve, more safe to drive below maximum speed. 3 hours ago, HermanTheGerman said: The KS16 has just a lot more reserve than many other wheels. I think Ninebot one E+ does too, it feels like it could go a lot faster but the firmware keeps a large reserve for safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 On 11/29/2016 at 6:52 AM, Cerbera said: This is why new riders should spend a lot of time online researching their first wheel - often you find out a lot more on forums than you do in Chinese instruction manuals. Watch many YouTube videos also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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