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dbfrese

Charging Ninebot without Charger

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Fun experiment of the week -- has any one ever started out with a minimal charge, say 10%, and charged their Ninebot one up to near 100% simply by going down a really long hill or mountain? 

I imagine one could easily set a distance record on ideally shaped terrain. A few miles of downhill runs, followed by straight and level, followed by more downhill runs. With the right terrain, you could roll on indefinitely!

 

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I have a bike path that I regularly run that is about 6 miles long one way with up and down climbs the whole way, but mostly uphill. In those 6 miles, I climb about 1800ft. When I reach the end, (mostly uphill), I'm at 40%. I turn around and go back to the start, (mostly downhill), and when I reach the beginning again, I can have 20-40% left, depending on how I ride.

The most I've gained on a single downhill that I've actually tracked is 11% running down the hill under the Golden Gate Bridge.  I'm guessing it's about 1/2 mile long. 

I would imagine a large Mountain downhill would make it very possible to charge back to 100%. 

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I've measured a gain of almost 10% on a downhill run that I've done a couple of times in northern Arizona. I need to identify more trails that are EUC friendly and have long downhill portions to test out how completely I can charge it up while on the move.

 

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Does the speed of going downhill affect the amount of charging? Does zooming down the hill really fast charge more or less than leaning back and descending the hill slowly?

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1 hour ago, MaxLinux said:

Does the speed of going downhill affect the amount of charging? Does zooming down the hill really fast charge more or less than leaning back and descending the hill slowly?

Leaning back somewhat seems to be the best. You only gain charging when there is force against the motor. It's called Regenerative Braking, and as such, must have some braking going on. 

But, if you slow too much, there isn't enough momentum to keep the generating going. 

If you are "Zooming" down the hill, and using power, then no regeneration is happening. 

Edited by SuperSport

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So, if you ever go on an overnight trip and forget your charger, go to the nearest gym and ask if you can use their treadmill. :D

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Yep, I've been wanting to try that. I've got a membership. If I ever get away with it, I'll post video. 

Could also grab onto the back of a car and drag behind for a while. 

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Yes,  but,  to charge your battery,  you will have to brake and your arms will get longer and longer. 

Funny-monkeys-i.gif

 

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On 7/23/2016 at 5:56 PM, dbfrese said:

and charged their Ninebot one up to near 100% simply by going down a really long hill or mountain

I've read somewhere about Chinese group unicyclists who went up the mountain by bus and started riding downhill. After a couple hundred of meters, all the wheels started to beep due to overcharging.

Maybe then was a case when one 9bot cut off because of too much charge.

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9 hours ago, DS said:

Maybe then was a case when one 9bot cut off because of too much charge.

Definitely don't want to do that! If you try it, you'll have to do it on a Ninebot One that has already been discharged most of the way.

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@SuperSport, simply usb with 0,5-2A. It is to charge wheel, while I'm sitting in a café or on a bench near the electric sockets. There is a time, so why not add a few kilometers free.
@Rotator, maybe it's good idea. But I plan to use a single USB first time.

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54 minutes ago, master255 said:

@SuperSport, simply usb with 0,5-2A. It is to charge wheel, while I'm sitting in a café or on a bench near the electric sockets. There is a time, so why not add a few kilometers free.
@Rotator, maybe it's good idea. But I plan to use a single USB first time.

While this is indeed technically feasible the losses in the converter together with limited current at 5V USB sockets will result in really minor battery charge on the wheel. I'm currently doing the same with 12V portable solar panel and converter from 12 to 67V and the gain on the battery capacity is almost not worth carrying the kit around with you unless you're planning to drive to the very far location (like nice beach) at the morning and then have the wheel for 6 - 8 hours attached to the solar charger so it will slightly increase the range to give you chance to return home without running out of battery.

Edited by HEC

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@HEC, Yes, I've been thinking about solar batteries. But the converter USB-> 60V significantly smaller sizes and weights. And in the parks, we have the power outlet. USB is everywhere! At work, in the car, in the park, in a cafe, at home. Even the phone can be used as a power bank!

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7 minutes ago, HEC said:

While this is indeed technically feasible the losses in the converter together with limited current at 5V USB sockets will result in really minor battery charge on the wheel.

Yeah, it's saying the maximum input is 3 amp and requires a heatsink to do that. So if you have a 5v/3a (15 watt) power supply the most you'll get out is 60 volts at 0.25 amps. With losses it's going to be more like 0.2 amp since the rest will go into the heatsink, so about 12 watts. I think we came up with power usage of something around 12 watts/km in another thread? So charging for an hour would only add another 1km of range.

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25 minutes ago, master255 said:

@HEC, Yes, I've been thinking about solar batteries. But the converter USB-> 60V significantly smaller sizes and weights. And in the parks, we have the power outlet. USB is everywhere! At work, in the car, in the park, in a cafe, at home. Even the phone can be used as a power bank!

My converter is also very small (7 x 4 x 3 cm) and that includes heatsink and aluminium casing: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-Boost-Converter-DC-8-40V-to-12-60V-10A-160W-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-DC/32624351102.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.112.dMYEbD

I doubt that anything you could squeeze out of your mobile phone would be even noticeable for your wheel :D And if you'll take 5V USB socket which can provide lets say 1A after converting it to 60 V (divide by 12) and counting in max 85% efficiency (it will be actually much less than that if the converter will be operating outside of it's optimal voltage and current range) you'll end up with about 70 mA of charging current at 60V. What I'm trying to say that any charge you would manage to get out of the USB socket would be negligible to time spent charging as after 1 hour of "charging" you'll gain measly 4.2 Wh ;)

EDIT: @dmethvin beat me to the point with much "optimistic" calculations :P

Edited by HEC

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@HEC, For example, it can come in handy when I'm at work. I have 8 hours to charge the wheel. This will increase 8km .. Or when I'm lying on a sun lounger in the park. Sometimes it takes more than 1 hour. And if it will give more than 1 kilometer, it is very good!
Sometimes I sit in a cafe more than an hour!

And 1 kilometer it's 3% of full charge! I think it very much!

Edited by master255

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35 minutes ago, master255 said:

@HEC, For example, it can come in handy when I'm at work. I have 8 hours to charge the wheel. This will increase 8km .. Or when I'm lying on a sun lounger in the park. Sometimes it takes more than 1 hour. And if it will give more than 1 kilometer, it is very good!

Well - that's based on @dmethvin's calculations with 3A USB input. With only 1A it will be third of it. It's indeed better than nothing but I think you expect more than you'll get in reality. Personally I'd look into some project of having travel / portable EUC mains (wall)charger of quarter / fifth size and weight of the standard chargers with output current of let's say 500 - 750 mA which you can carry in your jacket or smaller bag and use it to top off your wheel in trains or while waiting at station, sitting at coffee shops or at work where slow charging rate would be not an issue. I'm sure if some would produce those in nice compact package they will sell well.

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If you have 1 A under 5V, your converter will produce 0.082 A under 61V (the standard Ninebot charger gives 2 A). It means that it would take 72 hours instead of 3 hours to charge your battery.

If you consider that a full charge gives 20km, in one hour, you would gain 20/72 km of autonomy : 278 m !

It is not worth the pain when you consider the problems this DIY solution could trigger...

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4 hours ago, master255 said:

And 1 kilometer it's 3% of full charge! I think it very much!

Only the very large/expensive USB power banks and adapters can deliver 3 amps, it is more typical to deliver 2 or 2.4 amps which means it will take 1 hour to get about a 2% charge. If you have a cheap no-name USB power bank it is only likely to handle 1 amp.

5 hours ago, master255 said:

But the converter USB-> 60V significantly smaller sizes and weights

That is the flaw, the power has to come from somewhere! If you use a small USB power bank for power it will add very little range even if you step it up to 60 volts. You must either take the power with you in a (large) battery or get it from some other source such as mechanical energy that drives the wheel to be a generator. Many of those USB power banks are just a few 18650 cells in a case with a step up/down circuit to get to 5 volts. You already have many more of those 18650 cells in your EUC, one or two more won't make a difference and the two additional voltage conversions (one in the USB adapter, one in your step-up board) guarantee you'll lose a lot of the additional power in heat.

@master255 Nothing prevents you from trying it though. I would guess the large high-current USB power bank, the board, a proper heatsink, perhaps even a fan, and a box would be a $50 project. If you have power where you go it would be easier to carry a charger. If you don't have power there it might be easier to carry an external Li-Ion pack that you can put in parallel for long trips like the SpeedyFeet guy did.

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Hey guys! You seem not understand how much we have developed in the USB.
For 5V 2A I have a very small device.
Hi looks like this:
Горячая-5-В-2А-Путешествия-Удобный-ЕС-Plug-Стены-USB-Зарядное-Устройство-Адаптер-Для-Samsung-galaxy.jpg_640x640.jpg

But!
I have another cool device! :-) From great company Lenovo!
Which gives incredible! 20V and 3,25A to USB port! That gives 65 watts.
And you forget that this converter can convert them to 60V.! And 1.1A

20160114_233328.jpg


That gives a much more tangible charge, with the same size as the first USB charger.

Edited by master255

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Sure seems easier to pack my charger. But maybe you will have something there. 

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