New KS 16burnt fuse and burnt resistor

[steve454]

On 7/22/2016 at 2:03 AM, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

If you don't mind, could you tell us how much you weigh?  A 20 degree is pretty steep.  It would be nice if the KingSong app had some logging capabilities similar to a flight recorder to help document the events (speed, current, temperature, etc) during a ride.  If a rider reports a problem the data could be uploaded to the KingSong server for analysis.

Ninebot has that, it is in the app, and it is called black box.  But you must type in to the field what the problem is. Otherwise they do not bother answering.  Since my NB1 has never done anything wrong I cannot complain.

[Frode]

30 minutes ago, Addwyn said:

This model may be OK: 

     http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/wholesale-eg5809-10pcs-40a-40-amp-atm-mini/263689223.html

 

Thank you!

That one looks much more like the one I picked out of the wheel. Only thing is that it says "Item sold out" on the page. Maybe Kingsong bought them all

Maybe I can find it somewhere else.

[Addwyn]

Maybe these ???

http://www.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-eg5809-10pcs-40a-40-amp-atm-mini/383064159.html#s1-3-1b;searl|870976881

http://www.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-lot-of-10pcs-atm-automotive-mini/268709789.html#s1-16-1b;searl|870976881

 

[US69]

1 hour ago, Frode said:

To me a fuse is a last resort solution. I still do not understand why that wheel did let me force it up that slope without any warning.

In this case, the only reason for a fuse being installed must be to protect the wheel itself (electronics or motor). It is not there to protect the rider - that is for sure. Better would have been to detect the overcurrent situation before the fuse burns, and giving a loud and unambiguous alarm in time for the rider to take action. Burning the fuse is like turning the wheel off. It won't balance any more.

It was probably my big belly that saved my teeth. It served as an "airbag". There is a hole in my T-shirt in the middle of the stomach.

thats what i want to tell you this complete thread a long!!!

 

a "normal" reaction of the KS16 would have been that some signs of warning or whatever came up!!!

But here it did not: So thats why -definitly- you should have a check with distributor!

you are completly right: this fuse -IS- the last solution...and on yours also a resistor had burned...this was no rider protection....it was board/batterie protection to not destroy one of them to complete burn down or something!!!

 

So: do NOT take it easy and drive on like nothing happend! The Ks16 HAS GOT overpower and overcurrent warning....

that they were not triggered, means something here goes completly wrong!! 

[Frode]

11 minutes ago, Addwyn said:

Maybe these ???

http://www.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-eg5809-10pcs-40a-40-amp-atm-mini/383064159.html#s1-3-1b;searl|870976881

http://www.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-lot-of-10pcs-atm-automotive-mini/268709789.html#s1-16-1b;searl|870976881

 

Thanks! I didn't realize DHgate was a marcetplace. I thought they were a store

[Frode]

1 minute ago, KingSong69 said:

So: do NOT take it easy and drive on like nothing happend! The Ks16 HAS GOT overpower and overcurrent warning....

that they were not triggered, means something here goes completly wrong!! 

Thank you! Important information. Looks like there is something wrong with the wheel then. I will talk to my reseller, and maybe even Kingsong - if I can find some contact information.

[Frode]

OK, so I have been investigating the place where my face plant took place. It was not so steep as I thought. Slope is below 10 degrees (8,5 degrees measured on photo) and 30 meters long (~100 feet). For scale: The wooden yellowish fence at the top of the slope is aprox. 1,5 meters high.

The nice thing is that the dealer will replace the main board tomorrow. Makes me happy

[Frode]

OK. I visited the dealer and they replaced the board. Everything without any cost for me. I'm happy and back on the wheel again.

Inspection of the main board showed that this was an earlier version of the main board with the "capacitor leg"-problem (it was broken). If the fuse blows, inspect the board's capacitor legs (the big one).

[HEC]

6 minutes ago, Frode said:

OK. I visited the dealer and they replaced the board. Everything without any cost for me. I'm happy and back on the wheel again.

Inspection of the main board showed that this was an earlier version of the main board with the "capacitor leg"-problem (it was broken). If the fuse blows, inspect the board's capacitor legs (the big one).

Any chance that you've taken pictures of that? Or can maybe the dealer send you the picture if you don't have the board anymore? When roughly have you purchased the wheel?

[Frode]

@HEC The wheel was ordered by me from the Norwegian dealer June 11th. Sorry, no image, but it was easy to see that the capacitor leg was damaged.

[flass]

7 hours ago, Frode said:

@HEC The wheel was ordered by me from the Norwegian dealer June 11th. Sorry, no image, but it was easy to see that the capacitor leg was damaged.

Just curious since my own wheel is also from a Norwegian dealer: Where did you buy yours? 

[Frode]

31 minutes ago, flass said:

Just curious since my own wheel is also from a Norwegian dealer: Where did you buy yours? 

As I have understood it, there is presently only one dealer selling KingSong in Norway: E-Wheels

[flass]

1 minute ago, Frode said:

As I have understood it, there is presently only one dealer selling KingSong in Norway: E-Wheels

I see! I think it is the same place I bought from, although I live in Sweden and bought thru www.airboard-shop.se

but it looks to be the same company, with just a different domain name for the Swedish market. Good to know they are nice to their customers even when the products appear to be faulty!

[Frode]

On 22.7.2016 at 10:53 AM, Chriull said:

With the presumably broken capacitor leg i noticed some kind of "delayed balancing" - so once i changed my weight forward/backward for accelerating/breaking the pedal "gave some way" before it balanced again.

I didn't notice what you said here before now, but this sounds just like what I experienced with my wheel, not just immediately before, but for several days before. I thought this "play" might having to do with me experimenting with the leveling function, or with some mechanical play (loos axle?) or hysteresis in the system, but I could find nothing that could explain or remove it. I also thought it might have been there all the time, but that I only started noticing it after my skills got better and I dared to lean harder into acceleration/slopes.

But, now that the main board is changed - this play is gone. Maybe this play is a definite sign of a broken capacitor leg?

On 22.7.2016 at 10:53 AM, Chriull said:

But also if your capacitor with his legs is still intact you should follow this advice and firmly glue the capacitor!

It don't think it was loose. My immediate thought when I saw the broken capacitor leg was not that it was broken due to mechanical fatigue. It looked like it was burnt off by high current. The black heat-shrink tubing around the leg was crispy and it crumbled and fell off when I touched it.

No claims though! I might be wrong and I did not inspect it thoroughly, but it was my first and immediate thought.

[US69]

26 minutes ago, Frode said:

It don't think it was loose. My immediate thought when I saw the broken capacitor leg was not that it was broken due to mechanical fatigue. It looked like it was burnt off by high current. The black heat-shrink tubing around the leg was crispy and it crumbled and fell off when I touched it.

No claims though! I might be wrong and I did not inspect it thoroughly, but it was my first and immediate thought.

this burn happens when it got loose..and it then reconnects while the board and capacitor needs power! to loose it -alone- makes no faceplant...the reconnect is the problem

Chris from 1radwerkstatt explained it in another thread...the "reconnect" while riding causes an extreme powerneed, which burned the leg...and blowed the fuse!

But now there a 2 people which described the feel of a lost capcitor...=

 

delayed reaction of the pedals/wheel....

[EUCMania]

EUC parts must be ruggardized. There are certifications such as MIL-STD-810 or ATEX for rugged electronics for military use.

EUC should go through vibration test where a vibration of frequencies similar to normal riding conditions is applied for many days. Or better, put it on a riding simulator similar to a treadmill, with gravel like surfaces on the belt and vibrator at the base of the simulator. This treadmill's belt is driven be the EUC. This machine is not very expensive to construct, considering a normal treadmill is < $2000. However, showing off that the manufacturer's EUC has to through this test certainly boost buyers confidence in the product, which certainly can command > $100 price premium. 

 

[Gookgai Flytothesky]

First time my KS16 can't turn on, think it might need to change the fuse too, but i'm afraid to damage the control board. So i should just pull the old fuse out and plug the new one in, no need to unsolder and soldering anything, right?

[US69]

2 hours ago, Gookgai Flytothesky said:

First time my KS16 can't turn on, think it might need to change the fuse too, but i'm afraid to damage the control board. So i should just pull the old fuse out and plug the new one in, no need to unsolder and soldering anything, right?

Hy Gookgai,

its me ...Ulf :-) Nice to see you here!

If you change the fuse...not need to solder...

But: something bad happend...if the Fuse blows! normally fuse do not blow!

 

so check your board for burnings, especially the big capacitor one, if his legs are ok!

and in the beginning with new fuse...check if the wheel has normal behaviour! if it reacts not normal, for example very slow pedal movements...something other is wrong...then better change complete board...

[Frode]

On 07/30/2016 at 2:10 AM, KingSong69 said:

this burn happens when it got loose..and it then reconnects while the board and capacitor needs power! to loose it -alone- makes no faceplant...the reconnect is the problem

Chris from 1radwerkstatt explained it in another thread...the "reconnect" while riding causes an extreme powerneed, which burned the leg...and blowed the fuse!

It was not my impression that the capacitor was loose and could vibrate and give a fatigue break. It was glued to the board.

There is however another thing I have thougt about. Somewhere in here I think I read that this capacitor is rated at 80 V. That is kind of disturbing in itself if the voltage normally will be arround 60-70 V. Then another place in here I read that under hard breaking the voltage might raise due to the batteries cannot take the large current generated by the motor from when breaking. As I understand it, electrolytes do not tolerate overvoltage well and might shortcircuit. If so, maybe the breaking curent might have burnt off the capacitor leg? Just an untested hypotesis, but...(wish I had that capacitor here...) I have been doing quite some breaking exercises where I have tried to break in less than 5 meters from 20 km/h (legal requirement for this type of equipment in Norway).

I think the general rule is to dirate electrolytes like these to twice the maximum voltage they are to experience for safety and also for long time endurance.

As said before: I do not claim anything. Just my hypotetical reasoning.

[OliverH]

I should order a set of fuses at Chris to prevent bad experience. 

[Frode]

I final status report of this event:

Because of a loose pedal (http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/5135-bent-foot-stand-ks16/#comment-60963), I had to open the KS-16. Since it was already open I also inspected the main board. As said earlier this board was replaced. Now, after several 100 kilometers (nearing 1000) with the new board I could not see any sign of problems like burn marks etc. Nothing at all. The new board still looks brand new. The resistor that was severely burnt on the previous board still looks brand new on the new board. I'm confident that the problem is gone.

I also inspected the capacitor. I can confirm that it is 80 volts (and 105 degrees C).