Jarrett Bowers Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 20 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: @Jarrett Bowers you have the old grey App? It's just in the New "Green"! @KingSong69 It looks like I might have the old one. How do I get a hold of the new "Green" one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jarrett Bowers said: How do I get a hold of the new "Green" one? You may try from their official site: http://en.kingsong.com/Service.html Android app download Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrett Bowers Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, DS said: You may try from their official site: http://en.kingsong.com/Service.html Android app download Thanks @DS! I tried earlier getting it from the official site but that didn't work. Your link worked perfectly though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrett Bowers Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Turns out my KS18 800 watt firmware is upgradeable. I'm showing 1.09 but given all the folding reports I will stay at 1.09 at least for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 On 21 июля 2016 г. at 5:12 AM, Chriull said: This happened to me on my KS16 about 3 times in total. I weigh around 90kg and i prefer to start driving from standstill. My brother with ~20kg less and making "flying starts" never had this prob... Interesting. Just saw this thread. A few days ago, @vidos ks16 gave out under me, as i tried to start riding out of a restaurant from the seated position. I normally do this on my ks14 with no issues, there is always enough power. I used the same force/ acceleration but ks16 went under. It thought i had overpowered the wheel ( as technically a 16" diameter wheel of the same motor power will take less effort to "overpower") but after reading this, i am thinking maybe i also experienced the same issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I wonder if there could be a firmware or motor design issue that is causing these intermittent failures. Do Gotway and Kingsong use the same electric motor supplier? I'm no electric motor expert by any means, but I wonder if there is an issue with the hall sensor placement, spacing, sensitivity or design? My theory is that while stationary, if the control board doesn't get a signal from the hall sensor but weight is applied suddenly in a direction to get rolling, the control board might not get the directional input from the hall sensor in time to apply the needed directional power to balance. That could explain the failures from a standstill at a lamp post, a bar stool, a hop on non-rolling start, etc. That initial "fall" may create a torque force that ends up to be too large for the motor to compensate for just like an overlean situation so the wheel cuts out. I'm not sure how Ninebot or some of the other brand motors have their magnets/coils/hall sensors set up. It would be cool to see some opened motors to be able to compare designs. Do all size wheels just use a set of three hall sensors lined up with one coil in a triangular pattern? Since they are powered by the rotation of the wheel across magnets, maybe if they are slightly out of position to the magnet at a certain spot not enough magnetic energy is created to send a signal to the board ending up with a "dead space" or lag time before signals are sent. When pushing off with a one foot rolling start, the signal might get going more predictably so perhaps that's why we don't hear about failures in those circumstances? Or are the hall sensors lined up so that any one is always energized at any point in time when the wheel starts rolling even a little? Do the hall sensors come in different sensitivities? Maybe cheaply spec'd sensors need slightly more magnetic signal energy to activate? If someone can do a series of stationary wheel starts from a hop on with no roll situation and document their findings, we might be able to make the problem more reproducible and narrow down what is causing it. Maybe mark a spot on the ground with some chalk, and mark a spot on the wheel. Line them up, hop on and roll. Next time advance the wheel a millimetre past the ground mark and repeat. Keep on doing that to see if there is a "dead spot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 8 hours ago, Cloud said: as i tried to start riding out of a restaurant from the seated position 8 hours ago, Cloud said: i am thinking maybe i also experienced the same issue? The way you described it, it is the same KS16 issue that happens to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasK Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I don't know if my oberservations have really got something to do with it, but..... I rode a Firewheel F779 for nearly a year or so and received my KS16 in early April (firmware was on v1.13 then, now it is on 1.20). In comparison to the Firewheel I noticed the following: pushing the wheel back and forth by hand to check if it is balancing ok the KS has some delay in responding to the pushes. Some sort of procrastination kind of "are you really sure the movement is into this direction - ok, yes, then let's go, eventually". This reminds me that some Ninebot owners stated here in the forum that the KS is lagging/not responding as fast as the NB ..... I normally do "flying starts" but whenever I do start from a standstill grabbing on to something I first check through very sensitive leaning into the wanted direction if the 'force' is picking up with the movement before I take my hands off and never faced any problems. Reading the reports here I will probably not do any of the standstill things any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 After less of a month since I got my 1rstEUC KS16 today,with 430km of experience, I made the longest ride 31.7km through the bike lanes in my town. Few starts (3-4) from standstill but without any support, instead a lot of starts (15-20) from waiting the green light at the crossroads while standing on my wheel and relaying on a post for support. While waiting for the green light I was going from no movements at all to small back&forward moves, I did not notice any strange behaviour and no folds at all, I purchased my ks16 on 27th june 2016 so the wheel should be of latest production but it's just a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 10 minutes ago, EricGhost said: After less of a month since I got my 1rstEUC KS16 today,with 430km of experience, I made the longest ride 31.7km through the bike lanes in my town. Few starts (3-4) from standstill but without any support, instead a lot of starts (15-20) from waiting the green light at the crossroads while standing on my wheel and relaying on a post for support. While waiting for the green light I was going from no movements at all to small back&forward moves, I did not notice any strange behaviour and no folds at all, I purchased my ks16 on 27th june 2016 so the wheel should be of latest production but it's just a guess does only happening shortly after powering on...not inbetween rides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: does only happening shortly after powering on...not inbetween rides! Jop. Seems so - my three fails also where only after powering on and never when i started after a traffic light stop holding on a pole or hopping on again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johrhoj Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 On 21-7-2016 at 10:58 AM, KingSong69 said: @johrhoj you want to comment also? It seems to be the same glitch as I experience from time to time. I documented it in another topic (search for "glitch"). I learned to live with it quite easily. Once the wheel has detectible forward movement, the glitch never happens (to me at least). Luckily my step onto the wheel is always forward movement first and then move second foot to pedal. It is when I balance without movement (e.g. leaning on pole at traffic light), that taking off can be a problem. So I am very carefull to get some forward motion, before taking of in ernest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 17 hours ago, KingSong69 said: does only happening shortly after powering on...not inbetween rides! That is not true. In both cases when I've experienced the bug the wheel was powered on long time ago (several minutes) so it's not case here unfortunately and may as well happen any time during the ride where you become stand still for a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johrhoj Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Maybe also good the mention is that I have been practicing backward driving (without much success yet). I mention this, because this is repeatedly (i guess hundreds times now) coming to a stop and reverse. This is the way I try it: go straight, lean back until I go back. Never did the bug/glitch manifest itself in this situation. It is only after balancing while standing still ... for some time (with me on it or not) ... that the glitch can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 50 minutes ago, HEC said: That is not true. In both cases when I've experienced the bug the wheel was powered on long time ago (several minutes) so it's not case here unfortunately and may as well happen any time during the ride where you become stand still for a moment. As i have heart no other reports, that it happend after several minutes and inbetween a normal ride....and all other reports are from standstill after powerOn....or Johrhoj also...? Perhaps you should go and check for the "capacitors" on the Mainboard, like Chris(1radwerkstatt) mentioned??? All in all i think that is something that will not happen so much, as all a litte more experienced riders did not go from a standstill or post....even i know None... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 so: today i tried to "recreate" the fault by: -powering KS18 on -check if it is balanced very fast by hand... -jump on it -hold to a pole -stand a millisecond very still - then try to normal accelerate to the front on 2 of 3 tries i defintitly got the wheel to fold....you just have to do it fast enough... and...like mentioned above, before i have checked if the wheel is balanced ...by hand! so the fault is defintitly readjustable/retryable.....seams that like on the start there is no full power awailable.. i also later tried to recreate this by holding to a fence between normal riding...no luck! or better say: i have luck, for me its just after powerOn.... so for me: it is like @tinawong said...just in the beginning...wait a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: on 2 of 3 tries i defintitly got the wheel to fold....you just have to do it fast enough... When you say "fast enough" do you mean : 1) soon enough after the wheel is powered on? Or 2) with enough acceleration, that is rushing forward, putting your mass forward with enough force/ speed ? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 My wife had this balance power cut off on a tour in France two times. She was sure to have powered it on. Stepped on and made a face plant right from the start. Brilliant, very good reputation. There seems to be same story on the ACM. As there're some rumours on slightly same DNA the problem would be the same. As I rode the KS16 again on the last tour as my wife again had problems with her feets on the KS16 (she rode my MSuper instead again :-( ) I was aware of the problem. I powered the KS16 on, I got all the lights indicating it's on but there was no balancing. After 2-3 seconds I got balancing. Is this the time the firmware needs to boot up with all services/ daemons? Can I disable this fancy audio pass through payback to maybe have more safety? @tinawong I don't need a description what to do or how long I need to wait to use it. A normal user switch it on and likes to drive. As there is no "be cautious, Kingsong prepares your next ride" voice note this user likes to ride immediately without any difficulties. Don't search for work arounds at the user, investigate on the EUC firmware. There's an issue. Safety of machinery/ safety directive will be the issue in the next years. Read it, understand it, implement it/ be innovative and keep in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 6 hours ago, Cloud said: When you say "fast enough" do you mean : 1) soon enough after the wheel is powered on? Or 2) with enough acceleration, that is rushing forward, putting your mass forward with enough force/ speed ? thanks i mean number one....you just have to do this in a minimal amount of time to reproduce the fault... i have to say, in real life i did not do it this way!...normally i would have been slower, or did not start from standstill/pole, i would more jump on it by pushing forward... nope...no "heavy/fast" acceleration, speak overlean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 13 hours ago, KingSong69 said: so for me: it is like @tinawong said...just in the beginning...wait a bit Well then our experiences differs greatly as my KS-16 was always switched on several minutes before ride / "fold" error. Even if I switch the wheel "just before ride" it still takes me at least 10 - 15 seconds to get ready as I'm putting on my headband, ring bell and training belt before stepping on the wheel so any claims about taking off "too soon" are invalid here. And I totally agree with @OliverH that this is not acceptable and needs to be fixed. @tinawong please pay attention as you'll be otherwise loosing customers to other companies instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, HEC said: Well then our experiences differs greatly as my KS-16 was always switched on several minutes before ride / "fold" error. Even if I switch the wheel "just before ride" it still takes me at least 10 - 15 seconds to get ready as I'm putting on my headband, ring bell and training belt before stepping on the wheel so any claims about taking off "too soon" are invalid here. And I totally agree with @OliverH that this is not acceptable and needs to be fixed. @tinawong please pay attention as you'll be otherwise loosing customers to other companies instead. Sorry if i am not so good with my words...english is not my first language! For sure this IS a serious issue and Needs to be adressed! With my post i just wanted to say that -i personally- can reproduce the fault, but only at the beginning/PoweringOn like Tina said....it was not my Intention to prove your experience wrong!"" For sure i believe you, and if it also happend between rides it's a absolute NO GO much more....on the other Hand you should also check your board to rule out other Problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 11 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: With my post i just wanted to say that -i personally- can reproduce the fault, but only at the beginning/PoweringOn like Tina said....it was not my Intention to prove your experience wrong!"" Yes - exactly - that's why I say that our experiences differs I know that you've meant that in your case it's only after start up and don't worry I didn't take it as you trying to "disprove" my statement in any way. EDIT: The most important conclusion is that it's repeatable / reproducible error and as such should be taken seriously by KS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolauk Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 This is really bad news. I was about to buy a KS-16 or a KS-18, but now I don't know if I should anymore. I've got a ninebot one e+ at the moment, but would like a bit more power, speed and at least more battery. So far no issues what so ever on my ninebot (750km), but I know it has had its firmware issues as well. Can everyone with a KS reproduce these kinds of faults? It kind of seems like this could be some firmware issue, if it didn't happen before upgrading - and got better with the latest firmware.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 3 hours ago, rolauk said: This is really bad news. I was about to buy a KS-16 or a KS-18, but now I don't know if I should anymore. I've got a ninebot one e+ at the moment, but would like a bit more power, speed and at least more battery. So far no issues what so ever on my ninebot (750km), but I know it has had its firmware issues as well. Can everyone with a KS reproduce these kinds of faults? It kind of seems like this could be some firmware issue, if it didn't happen before upgrading - and got better with the latest firmware.. We've still the Factory Firmware installed: 1.15 or so. With the history of Ninebot one firmware nightly builds I kindly asked in an other thread how Kingsong is testing firmware to be sure no major/ danger issues appears with an update. I got no answer, so I decided to freeze it until I know from experienced riders that all is OK. I'm not a beta tester or crash test dummy. Sorry to use such direct wordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoltri Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I have the KS16 with 518km according to the app so far (although this is inflated by about 24% due to a bug that calculates mileage incorrectly) and I haven't experienced this yet. However I mount the wheel by putting my right foot on and then kind of skateboarding with my left leg then hopping on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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