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TremF

Screw heads snapping off on ACM 16 side panel...

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@Jane Mo @Linnea Lin Gotway

I have had a couple of screw heads snap off while riding. At first I thought it was me having tightened them too much when I opened the side but it appears I am not the only one to have this issue. @Kevin Grandon has also had this issue - http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/4390-just-got-my-pair-of-acm-today/?do=findComment&comment=48480

What's happening is the heads are snapping off leaving the body of the screw inside so another screw cannot be put in it's place. I have only had this happen with 2 screws so far but it does look like they aren't very strong. As Kevin has pointed out, if enough screws break (as has happened with him) it will mean a whole new case is needed

The first time it happened the head was stuck like a magnet to the side of my case but I didn't realise what it was and threw it away then saw the missing head in the center of the right hand side panel. The second time the head was just missing when I went to wipe my ACM down after a ride.

I have attached links to photo's of my two snapped screws. One is in the center above the pedal the other to the right of the pedal in the corner. Both to the ride hand side panel.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1mrwOQYqr4gT1RLWEQyWXlrRDg

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1mrwOQYqr4gRm1OWERkX1BYSnM

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Thanks for posting it up! We will improve it. Please check your local distributor to ask if they could help to replace the new screws fro you. Thanks!

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5 minutes ago, Linnea Lin Gotway said:

Thanks for posting it up! We will improve it. Please check your local distributor to ask if they could help to replace the new screws fro you. Thanks!

Hi Linnea. Unfortunately the body of the screw is still inside the casing and cannot be easily removed. Likely it will mean needing a whole new case if too many snap?

Edited by TremF

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Just now, TremF said:

Hi Linnea. Unfortunately the body of the screw is still inside the casing and cannot be easily removed. Likely it will mean needing a whole new case if too many snap?

Please try to loose the other screws then to check if it can be removed off.

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2 minutes ago, Linnea Lin Gotway said:

Please try to loose the other screws then to check if it can be removed off.

I will try again later but the last time I had it open (to check which version of the control board I have) I couldn't see any protruding screw that I could grip to try and remove and it looks like Kevin has the same issue but worse as he has had more screw heads snap.

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2 hours ago, TremF said:

What's happening is the heads are snapping off leaving the body of the screw inside so another screw cannot be put in it's place. I have only had this happen with 2 screws so far but it does look like they aren't very strong. As Kevin has pointed out, if enough screws break (as has happened with him) it will mean a whole new case is needed.

Actually those should be able to get out using the Screw & Bolt extractor. There is plenty of models available - just look it up in your search engine ;) Though I do agree that's a disappointing situation. Any parts which requires repeated removal of the screws (due to the maintenance or tyre / tube replacement) should be always using bolts and nuts embedded in the body rather than nasty cheap tap in screws ;(

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You could use a pointy headed soldering iron. You melt the plastic to expose and retrieve the broken screw. Then find some plastic of the same number/type to fill-weld the original hole. Re-drill once cooled.. (Plastic welding is as strong as the original)

And use better quality screws next time, replace all before the others break

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53 minutes ago, HEC said:

Actually those should be able to get out using the Screw & Bolt extractor. There is plenty of models available - just look it up in your search engine ;) Though I do agree that's a disappointing situation. Any parts which requires repeated removal of the screws (due to the maintenance or tyre / tube replacement) should be always using bolts and nuts embedded in the body rather than nasty cheap tap in screws ;(

Having a quick look at the screw and bolt extractors they seem to rely on the head still being there but just worn? There is no head on these and the screws are very thin.

2 minutes ago, Mistagear said:

You could use a pointy headed soldering iron. You melt the plastic to expose and retrieve the broken screw. Then find some plastic of the same number/type to fill-weld the original hole. Re-drill once cooled.. (Plastic welding is as strong as the original)

And use better quality screws next time, replace all before the others break

Hmmm I don't own a soldering iron or know anyone that does. Then I have to try and fill the tiny hole with plastic, I don't have, to re-drill..........

I think I'd prefer to buy a fresh case, than a soldering iron, as this one has been scratched when the ACM dropped at standstill. Also your comment "use better quality screws next time" makes it sound like it's me that used the flimsy screws to begin with. ;)

I plan to replace any I can so as to make sure no more snap but Gotway needs to sort this out going forward as I now know of three of us that have had teh heads snap off. There are bound to be others not on this forum or that are and it is yet to happen to.

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47 minutes ago, TremF said:

Having a quick look at the screw and bolt extractors they seem to rely on the head still being there but just worn? There is no head on these and the screws are very thin.

There are extractor models / sizes suitable just for the bolt or screw rod itself without head. It's a bit tricky at first and I'd recommend to practise on something less valuable first like putting the screw in a piece of wood and snapping the head.

Edited by HEC

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24 minutes ago, HEC said:

There are extractor models / sizes suable just for the bolt or screw rod itself without head. It's a bit tricky at first and I'd recommend to practise on something less valuable first like putting the screw in a piece of wood and snapping the head.

I think rather than going out and buying extra tools, I'd never use again, for a couple of broken screws I'd rather either put up with the 2 or buy a new, non scratched, case :)

The main idea here was bringing it to Gotway's attention before they have hundreds of ACM owners asking for new cases/ACM's because the screws have all snapped - I know that's extreme but it could have happened :)

Thanks for all advice received though. It's appreciated. :) 

Edited by TremF

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@TremF Frankly you should not be buying either - it's basically brand new wheel and supplier shall replace the faulty / damaged parts.

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1 hour ago, HEC said:

@TremF Frankly you should not be buying either - it's basically brand new wheel and supplier shall replace the faulty / damaged parts.

Agreed. My local distributor (Yorkshire Airwheels Ltd) has been fantastic throughout has offered to send me replacement screws (as well as sorting the Trolley Handle, possible board issue and rubber grips as soon as they receive the stock) but I really don't mind paying a measly £1 or so to get the screws from my local hardware store today before I risk any more breaking.

The case doesn't have to be replaced - I had worse marks on my Ninebot One E+ even on my second set of leg supports and outer shell but the ACM is so good and looked so good that I don't mind paying to get a shiny new case.

I'll put this experience down to buying into a product a little too soon when hiccups are to be expected. Other than the little niggles being worked out it is a damn decent wheel and I don't regret buying it.

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Yeah, I have a good 4-6 stripped screws now in my ACM. They actually snapped when I was *unscrewing* them after initially putting on the panels. At this point I don't feel that the side panel is securely attached to the ACM.

I've tried a few bolt extractors but the problem is that the standoff/bolt is very small and they don't work too well. I think to fix this DIY you would need to drill/melt the plastic and rebuild it.

Is this something that the distributor/manufacturer should replace for free? How would they do it, provide a new shell only?

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4 minutes ago, Kevin Grandon said:

Is this something that the distributor/manufacturer should replace for free? How would they do it, provide a new shell only?

If it was one or two I would think it wouldn't be an issue, but this seems to be an epidemic! I was thinking about buying an ACM16 so I will be interested to see what Gotway will do to fix this. Are these metal screws going into plastic, but somehow breaking? I've never heard of that. They must have saved a fraction of a cent buying less expensive screws! 

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11 minutes ago, dmethvin said:

Are these metal screws going into plastic, but somehow breaking?

Yeah, the screw heads will break off either when screwing or unscrewing them. It's hard to see, but if you look at OP's pictures in the original post you can see a screw hole with part of the screw inside the plastic standoff. The head has come off.

You might be able to fix this (before it happens) by going to your local hardware store with the screw and looking for a replacement, but you shouldn't have to.

Edited by Kevin Grandon

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In China, there are many different grades of items you can buy.  It all comes down to saving a penny at the cost of quality.  If you don't specify things to a T, the supplier can give you anything they want.  It might be a screw of the proper thread, length, etc, but if there is no strength specification defined they are free to be creative.  Sometimes the Gotway factory might not even know they are being supplied with inferior goods unless they do random batch testing.  Or someone could have just screwed up accidentally and bought a bunch of crappy screws at a great discount... it happens... :wacko:

I'm betting that the screws are likely made with a soft metal alloy that doesn't withstand unscrewing.  They are torqueing the screws down with power screwdrivers, but when it comes to undoing them the metal just fatigues and the head breaks off.  It might not be a problem until someone needs to change a tire or open up a shell, but it could be a disaster for production if they've mass produced these with the weak screws...

If you have some penetrating oil, it might be adviseable to spray some around the screw, let it sit for a few minutes, and then try undoing it.  That might help?  Make sure though that the oil is safe on plastics.

Edited by HunkaHunkaBurningLove

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1 hour ago, Kevin Grandon said:

Yeah, I have a good 4-6 stripped screws now in my ACM. They actually snapped when I was *unscrewing* them after initially putting on the panels. At this point I don't feel that the side panel is securely attached to the ACM.

I've tried a few bolt extractors but the problem is that the standoff/bolt is very small and they don't work too well. I think to fix this DIY you would need to drill/melt the plastic and rebuild it.

Is this something that the distributor/manufacturer should replace for free? How would they do it, provide a new shell only?

Looks like you should not try to take apart.  There is probably Loctite on the screws, you take them out and warranty might be voided.  Too bad there is not enough warranty centers here.

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13 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Looks like you should not try to take apart.  There is probably Loctite on the screws, you take them out and warranty might be voided.

I don't think that's the case, I think it's just a very soft metal. Regardless, buyers in the USA get the battery and EUC separately - so you have to take it apart and put it together initially.

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@Kevin Grandon Oh, I get it, new regulations now.  Makes sense with all the power in those batteries.  I'm afraid to charge anything nowadays.

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6 hours ago, dmethvin said:

If it was one or two I would think it wouldn't be an issue, but this seems to be an epidemic! I was thinking about buying an ACM16 so I will be interested to see what Gotway will do to fix this. Are these metal screws going into plastic, but somehow breaking? I've never heard of that. They must have saved a fraction of a cent buying less expensive screws! 

Same to me. I like to replace the 9b1 and a friend of me also like to buy an ACM. Every week or so you see things like heatsink replaced, replaced again, firmware tweaked, new motor, 12 Mosfets, broken screws. It may cone to early to market and the major parts should be in the final stage now. But having quality issues right now with bad srews is bad. ISO 9001 is heavy to implement if you do it right - but it will save you from getting pain.

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7 hours ago, steve454 said:

Looks like you should not try to take apart.  There is probably Loctite on the screws, you take them out and warranty might be voided.  Too bad there is not enough warranty centers here.

Unfortunately unless you are very lucky you will end up taking it apart at some point or how do you change the tire or sort a puncture? Also as has been mentioned some are being provided without the batteries so you have to open it to fit them - BOTH side panels have to be removed to fit the batteries. 

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1 hour ago, TremF said:

Unfortunately unless you are very lucky you will end up taking it apart at some point or how do you change the tire or sort a puncture? Also as has been mentioned some are being provided without the batteries so you have to open it to fit them - BOTH side panels have to be removed to fit the batteries. 

Graham has contacted me for this problem,and we will send replacement.

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