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Gotway ACM issue...


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Have yet to read all thread, way a bit much text for me trying first to understand in English fast and potentially reply with all the knowledge, spelling, grammar etc...

But Googled my way over here and found exact right thread thanks a lot for creating it and will read through given a little bit of time cause I will need it to fully understand it all, but I bought a ACM v2 820Wh just some month ago and 2 (or potentially 3) times this happen to me until today, then it happen twice in a row this very day and I am not even sure if I properly turned it on before but no question anymore, all doubts removed fully at this point. This thing is dropping me forward like power is off but here is the weird thing though, I do feel the EUC first. I head beep, see lights and feel the thing straighten up but til I stand up on it and lean forward then just dropping me?

Today third time was the charm, I did have some giggling but that I can take Stockholm is no Mexico City or Tokyo but big enough at least for not becoming the village idiot in record time, just contact seller again I suppose just know now I am not all alone with this.

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8 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Have yet to read all thread, way a bit much text for me trying first to understand in English fast and potentially reply with all the knowledge, spelling, grammar etc...

But Googled my way over here and found exact right thread thanks a lot for creating it and will read through given a little bit of time cause I will need it to fully understand it all, but I bought a ACM v2 820Wh just some month ago and 2 (or potentially 3) times this happen to me until today, then it happen twice in a row this very day and I am not even sure if I properly turned it on before but no question anymore, all doubts removed fully at this point. This thing is dropping me forward like power is off but here is the weird thing though, I do feel the EUC first. I head beep, see lights and feel the thing straighten up but til I stand up on it and lean forward then just dropping me?

Today third time was the charm, I did have some giggling but that I can take Stockholm is no Mexico City or Tokyo but big enough at least for not becoming the village idiot in record time, just contact seller again I suppose just know now I am not all alone with this.

Do you mean, the wheel struggling shortly after powering it on?

ALLWAYS after powering on, take some time, move it by hand back and forth with a good amount of power! And you should be good to go!

Its a firmware fault....the capcitors not loading fast enough!

 

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13 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Its a firmware fault....the capcitors not loading fast enough!

If it's that:

I recently had that too with my (84V) ACM for the first time. Switched it on without moving it much, and started by going up slowly a steep incline. It tilted forward and threw me off.

Usually I always move it around for a second or two to check that it is balancing (which charges the capacitors so the problem goes away), never happened then.

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56 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Do you mean, the wheel struggling shortly after powering it on?

ALLWAYS after powering on, take some time, move it by hand back and forth with a good amount of power! And you should be good to go!

Its a firmware fault....the capcitors not loading fast enough!

Thanks for reply, ok I see.

In the beginning after learning to move forward on the EUC sometimes I was in a haste and right up on it and start moving, after happening first time around I always take a few seconds when power on to hear, see and feel the wheel is on and stabilized but once I stand up on it then suddenly without any warning it drop me forward when leaning just a bit. It feels like it is stable at first and I am always in hardest mode (and want a harder mode in my next EUC in the future) cause I despise that soft feeling, like stepping into soft clay, goo and I want a very sharp, hard feeling EUC responding to slightest input immediately or that's what I think I want anyway I am still very, very new to all this. When I raced motocross and with bicycles it is not the same but then too I wanted a harder feeling bike, ACM to me feels so soft from factory it makes it harder to tell exactly the limit when this happen to me. But yes I would say it first feels hard and it balance me at first for a sec or 2 til start leaning and then just let go all the sudden?

Sorry I know it is not the best of explanations but English is not easy to me and not all natural trying to express what I am trying to say.To me it would seem capacitors should fill up fast and once the board is ready it should be ready and not "change it's mind" all the suddenly but I am of course no electrical guru with enough knowledge so please do correct me if thinking all wrong here? Very grateful for all information I can come by trying to solve this, and also providing the seller with as solid information as possible to help him out pinpointing this?

Perhaps I need even more time checking it out when first powering on before I go, just that even though not many seconds of time used up I do like idea of stepping right up and go more or less without first doing a safety routine simply cause it might sound like a easy thing to do, doing it 5 or  times going through stairs, swapping trains, buses etc to work and then home again it gets old real fast, preferably I would like not to turn it off but just pushing a button on handle to temporarily stopping wheel from spinning when lifting it up but maybe that is asking for to much?I will head your advice though and I will take a bit more time from here just in case.

Again, thanks.

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44 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Thanks for reply, ok I see.

In the beginning after learning to move forward on the EUC sometimes I was in a haste and right up on it and start moving, after happening first time around I always take a few seconds when power on to hear, see and feel the wheel is on and stabilized but once I stand up on it then suddenly without any warning it drop me forward when leaning just a bit. It feels like it is stable at first and I am always in hardest mode (and want a harder mode in my next EUC in the future) cause I despise that soft feeling, like stepping into soft clay, goo and I want a very sharp, hard feeling EUC responding to slightest input immediately or that's what I think I want anyway I am still very, very new to all this. When I raced motocross and with bicycles it is not the same but then too I wanted a harder feeling bike, ACM to me feels so soft from factory it makes it harder to tell exactly the limit when this happen to me. But yes I would say it first feels hard and it balance me at first for a sec or 2 til start leaning and then just let go all the sudden?

Sorry I know it is not the best of explanations but English is not easy to me and not all natural trying to express what I am trying to say.To me it would seem capacitors should fill up fast and once the board is ready it should be ready and not "change it's mind" all the suddenly but I am of course no electrical guru with enough knowledge so please do correct me if thinking all wrong here? Very grateful for all information I can come by trying to solve this, and also providing the seller with as solid information as possible to help him out pinpointing this?

Perhaps I need even more time checking it out when first powering on before I go, just that even though not many seconds of time used up I do like idea of stepping right up and go more or less without first doing a safety routine simply cause it might sound like a easy thing to do, doing it 5 or  times going through stairs, swapping trains, buses etc to work and then home again it gets old real fast, preferably I would like not to turn it off but just pushing a button on handle to temporarily stopping wheel from spinning when lifting it up but maybe that is asking for to much?I will head your advice though and I will take a bit more time from here just in case.

Again, thanks.

like said:

long known fault in the firmware...Gotway should still know this...it was on earlier KS firmware also, but KS changed that!

Just take care and always move hard back and forth by hand before starting! Then all should be fine....

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17 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

like said:

long known fault in the firmware...Gotway should still know this...it was on earlier KS firmware also, but KS changed that!

Just take care and always move hard back and forth by hand before starting! Then all should be fine....

Thanks will take extra time from now on, but again today doing so it felt good to go and when I stood on it and...

 

Happen today again even though I took some time like suggested, generally feels softer in hard mode too but need more testing time to say for certain, sure do feels mushier atm though? 

 

Thanks, will take even more time from here on and see where that takes me.
 

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1 hour ago, Electroman said:

Thanks will take extra time from now on, but again today doing so it felt good to go and when I stood on it and...

 

Happen today again even though I took some time like suggested, generally feels softer in hard mode too but need more testing time to say for certain, sure do feels mushier atm though? 

 

Thanks, will take even more time from here on and see where that takes me.
 

Beside that “collapsing when starting”.....do you have in general a very mushy pedal? Even on hard setting?

If so: did this mushy, soft pedal feeling come from one day to the other?

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Beside that “collapsing when starting”.....do you have in general a very mushy pedal? Even on hard setting?

If so: did this mushy, soft pedal feeling come from one day to the other?

Thanks for putting into better English for me on top of response itself, yes short and precise I would say that indeed even in hardest setting it now feels mushy, pedals feel like that. Ok to be honest maybe not quite as the soft mode used to feel but close enough, I tried soft and medium modes now and they are completely unusable especially the soft one feels like fighting to keep me up. I will not fall off but must ride and calculate with a full second in advance to anticipate if using soft, it feels dangerous to me I want it hard and reactive kinda like a light car with very good handling vs some old American made thing that feels more like a boat on the road.  Don't get me wrong I actually love old American cars and always did but must be honest they are not exactly made to take corners fast and night and day vs a new Vette for ex, but yeah I would say it feels softer than it did as brands spanking new but whether that will change from day to day I could not swear by atm? I need the weekend for testing not just that 2-3km ride to work from the train but I will check if changing, this is a recent phenomena I experience and even started to consider if I have gotten used to the wheel and now just demand it harder but no I really do think it is softer. It feels like all 3 modes are softer?

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2 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Thanks for putting into better English for me on top of response itself, yes short and precise I would say that indeed even in hardest setting it now feels mushy, pedals feel like that. Ok to be honest maybe not quite as the soft mode used to feel but close enough, I tried soft and medium modes now and they are completely unusable especially the soft one feels like fighting to keep me up. I will not fall off but must ride and calculate with a full second in advance to anticipate if using soft, it feels dangerous to me I want it hard and reactive kinda like a light car with very good handling vs some old American made thing that feels more like a boat on the road.  Don't get me wrong I actually love old American cars and always did but must be honest they are not exactly made to take corners fast and night and day vs a new Vette for ex, but yeah I would say it feels softer than it did as brands spanking new but whether that will change from day to day I could not swear by atm? I need the weekend for testing not just that 2-3km ride to work from the train but I will check if changing, this is a recent phenomena I experience and even started to consider if I have gotten used to the wheel and now just demand it harder but no I really do think it is softer. It feels like all 3 modes are softer?

Ok,

there is one BIG rule when driving ewheel:

When your wheel changes its behaviour...do never ever take that for granted! Examine what has changed...as the “next move”of the wheel can than be kicking you off! Wheels normally not repair any bad behaviour by themself...in 90% problems get worse.

Mushy pedals...which are that mushy and soft, that the wheel in the end did not carry you any longer, or lead to a collapse:

CAN be one of the big capacitors on the motherboard or its wire is damaged. Without both capacitors....a ewheel still works, but tends to be soft, as it is drawing its energy directly from the battery, and this is normaly to slow to react! Means: A push/acceleration to fast...and the wheel will colapse. So check capacitors.....thats something i do on every maintenance.

 

Also: Hotway’s models over time get the wheelnuts loose, and that leads to softer pedal feeling...but thats a process normally working over time. Solution is to inspect nuts and tighten them, evtl. new “wedges” which hold the axle must be re-newed.

 

For the second you should find threads a lot here...as the axle nut loose is a general prob on GW.....

 

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On 10/20/2017 at 7:45 PM, KingSong69 said:

Ok,

there is one BIG rule when driving ewheel:

When your wheel changes its behaviour...do never ever take that for granted! Examine what has changed...as the “next move”of the wheel can than be kicking you off! Wheels normally not repair any bad behaviour by themself...in 90% problems get worse.

Mushy pedals...which are that mushy and soft, that the wheel in the end did not carry you any longer, or lead to a collapse:

CAN be one of the big capacitors on the motherboard or its wire is damaged. Without both capacitors....a ewheel still works, but tends to be soft, as it is drawing its energy directly from the battery, and this is normaly to slow to react! Means: A push/acceleration to fast...and the wheel will colapse. So check capacitors.....thats something i do on every maintenance.

 

Also: Hotway’s models over time get the wheelnuts loose, and that leads to softer pedal feeling...but thats a process normally working over time. Solution is to inspect nuts and tighten them, evtl. new “wedges” which hold the axle must be re-newed.

 

For the second you should find threads a lot here...as the axle nut loose is a general prob on GW.....

 

Thanks once again, good info.

When you say check capacitors I assume you mean not just optical inspection but also ESR/multimeter?

2 times today when standing on it to start it did beep twice, before even accelerating away more like just started to softly roll and 0.5-1s from stand still. Did not drop on me though and I keep telling myself I am very uncertain here, like am I imagining this or a real problem but will take the safe route and have a look before using again.  I do have just above 100km in total on it and noticed another thing today that is very hard to say if it was there from day or just me getting more used to it and notice things I did not think about earlier, for example when holding it with my hand rolling back and forward fast I feel what I would describe as a very small "play"? I mean when the wheel going from forward to backwards and vice versa the transition is not exactly rock hard, not super firm but a small gap in between  forward and backward movement or however to explain it with a limited and very basic English vocabulary?

Do you happen to know what the tool is called I have seen people use to tighten axle nuts without stripping everything down, cable still in place and all? Want one at home for the day I need it, if not I check the nut size on axles and make something myself in the work shop on Monday or whenever I get some time over at work.

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Sorry for stupidity regarding the English language but I assume it's short for Capacitor wires right?

 

Yeah I know my English understanding is not the best, yeah I think so will check again my fast look under the hood showed nothing out of the ordinary to me but then again I did not electrically measure anything just lifted for 10 sec and took an image, I did however notice something but look at the image..

It did not feel so bad when new, it does feel perhaps even better than "new" to me now though, either way the size of the motor wiring did kind of shock me a bit, I would not mind paying the extra cost of beefing up electronics and wiring from factory and also the extra for a larger diameter axle. Almost wish I could have this unseen, ohh well.  :)

acm16.jpg

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Never seen this yellow triple connector before. Also, no heat sleeves to be seen (this is probably good). What is your wheel's production date? (First 6 digits of the serial number, which is e.g. on the sticker on the box below the bar code)

What you circled (and disconnected) is one of the battery wires (just saying, in case there's confusion).

If I were you, I'd remove the cable tie(s) around the 3 colored wires. Having these possibly hot wires pushed together like this is a potential point of failure. They should touch as little as possible, themselves, other parts of the wheel, including the side panel.

But it looks good, can't see anything that shouldn't be (maybe, maybe the cable tie).

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160602, could it be it?

I thought it was more or less fixed to be honest cause have not been acting up for days now, too soon I figured out just 20 min ago coming from train (work.)

 

This time I felt the wheel, stable so on it and went away and got maybe 50 meters or so then it dived on me, did not feel like the typical free fall drop this time around but more gradually but still fast enough for me to be changeless, I did have time to prepare for the fall though so kind of rolled along the asphalt, not really hurt so glad about that. My left arm is banged up but nothing broken and could have been so much worse so real glad it gave a split second warning or a few by diving with some resistance, made a big difference I suspect but also glad I did not pull away like mad man either and went relatively slow.

Never had this before, only immediately when taking off after power on, never after already been carried by the wheel for a distance and not stepping on it within half a sec or similar after powering on? I do know this is not the cut off people talk about from pushing it that's for sure and no beeping at all, battery level at 85%.

 

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I would stop riding that wheel if I were you. Something is clearly wrong with it, beyond typical Gotway characteristics. I'm no electrical guru either but something is broken and needs to be fixed or replaced.

One needs to have complete confidence in ones wheel. When one comes off one should know why it happened ; low battery, too fast, unseen bump, etc. Just throwing you off randomly is not good. 

FYI. Your English is good enough for us to understand.

good luck. 

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Thanks, yeah will let it be til me and seller can figure this one out, the one today was different when happening at speed already so not capacitors imho I made sure to see they are stable first. He want me to get into it and check batteries and connectors (asked before this last crash) but must wait a day til I can use left hand again.

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23 minutes ago, Electroman said:

but must wait a day til I can use left hand again.

Oh dear!  That bad was it? 

You were wearing wrist guards weren't you? They are the most important safety kit, in my opinion.

Get well soon.

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Yea,

  • Stop riding it!
  • My guess is a bad board. From what I've read here, strange behavior and especially sudden behavior changes usually are a bad board (whatever part exactly).
    If you've been riding it for 50m, definitely not a good board because the capacitors would have to be charged by now. Or something wrong with the batteries. But there's definitely something wrong, and it's not just the "capacitors muist charge at each start" this thread started with.

Hope your arm gets better soon, and in doubt, double check you really didn't hurt anything.

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21 hours ago, Smoother said:

Oh dear!  That bad was it? 

You were wearing wrist guards weren't you? They are the most important safety kit, in my opinion.

Get well soon.

Sadly not, but a very good point and I will absolutely get some now. :P  Sometimes a lesson is expensive I understand or at least costly.

Thanks, wrist guards are on top my list for next time I stand on one, never fell off at speed before but have a better idea of what to expect now cause will probably fall again and possible from human error, likely.

 

21 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yea,

  • Stop riding it!
  • My guess is a bad board. From what I've read here, strange behavior and especially sudden behavior changes usually are a bad board (whatever part exactly).
    If you've been riding it for 50m, definitely not a good board because the capacitors would have to be charged by now. Or something wrong with the batteries. But there's definitely something wrong, and it's not just the "capacitors muist charge at each start" this thread started with.

Hope your arm gets better soon, and in doubt, double check you really didn't hurt anything.

Yeah felt weird and seller first wanted me to document it but I don't know how, will not try to hold a camera in hand on a EUC I should not even ride at this point, trying to replicate it just holding it with my hand is very hard it seems ok but are obviously not.  Tried to tell myself yesterday I messed up somehow, but in my heart I remember and know how that felt and it was a nose dive after first been carrying me a distance of approximately 50 meter or so and the dive did not feel 100% like the early ones where it drop right after standing on it feeling like  free fall with 0 resistance, no this was more like some resistance still there but way too little to carry me.

Thank you, seems like I manage not to brake or crack anything at least, wrapped up tight for a few days and check again but glad it could be worse and learned a lesson regarding protection other than just helmet.

 

 

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It must be a defect if it still appears after 50m driven. That's far beyond where the usual "startup behavior" could produce anything like this. Especially if it didn't happen before in similar situations.

Maybe just one capacitor on the board went bad, or whatever.

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3 hours ago, Electroman said:

 

Never seen this yellow triple connector before.

 

 

On 30.10.2017 at 9:18 PM, meepmeepmayer said:
  • Stop riding it!
  • My guess is a bad board. From what I've read here, strange behavior and especially sudden behavior changes usually are a bad board (whatever part exactly).

This type of connector was only on the very first batches of GW ACM...which even had another motor type than later versions....

Would be interesting when the wheel was bought, as its production is june 2016

 

Yip...stop riding, definitly sound like 

- a bad board...perhaps capacitor, than falls would happen on stronger accelerations, as the battery can not deliver power fast enough

- defect/weak batterys...

The loose cables are “normally” balancer cable between the 2 batterys packs...that they are not connected??? Mysterious!

Also mysterious that these type of battery packs (with balancer cable) does not match the 6/2016 production date...as these cables only started to appear on later ACM batches.

 

So....check your wheel...with help of seller, if the seller got no clue, contact

1radwerkstatt.de 

They should be able to repair it!!!

 

Edit: Saw that you bought it “some monthes ago”....

So the seller sold you a “one year old” wheel, which must not be a bad thing, if the stock was handled Ok....

But also not a good thing :-(

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Thanks guys, also I can double check the date of manufacturer if correct if I know exactly where to look maybe I took it from the wrong place cause I am not 100% certain on where to look to be honest and saw something on the box it came in?

Yeah I do not have enough knowledge about these to know these things to be honest, regarding the distance I rode it before collapsing on me I can check it out more closely tomorrow cause I know where I started and approximately where I fell to get a more precise number, will laser it soon a I get there (on fot :) ).

I suppose I will learn as I go and wrist guards on their way now + will do more research as well as use this forum when I buy next wheel around spring time or so, after the Nordic winter.

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It needs to be repaired anyways:efee47c9c8: New board or whatever. This should not happen as you described it. Don't wait until you hurt yourself or the seller draws it out infinitely.

Production date is on the sticker on the box, the first 6 digits of the serial number which is under the bar code.

25946.jpg

Mine - 11th April 2017 (170411...). You can see from the motor code the motor is much older, but that does not matter.

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Thanks, I have one that says 160602xxxxx (+ 3x more numbers and 2x letters at the end) but have some Chinese signs in mine to but only one that looks like a date? A separate silvery sticker with the bar code also start with 16 but then 00 etc.. so hard to pull a date out of that?

Battery packs say the same, 160602 I had a peak today, motor code can I find in the wheel itself otherwise can I not?

The PCB scared me, looks quite bad quality wise. :cry2:  Sure I am no electrical guru that is true but I have seen some medium to very high quality PCB's for a wide range of products, machine and hand soldered but these (or at very least my personal one cannot speak for what I have not yet seen) take the price considering what they are for and I am about to trust it in my wheel, trust it with my health even. Then again quality overall if actually pretty low I have to say which I suppose is also reflected back at the cost of a unit so?

My English is very basic so hard to explain with just so many words, do not have a lot of cash and will often look for cheap options if available, but for this I would easily have spent another $100 or more for a control unit I can look at feel I will trust this, proper redundancy would be even better. Suppose I can always avoid people, crowds and dress up like a hockey goalie and see it as a challenge?

What is that bit between the green wire and the resistor (R002) connecting them on top of the board, not by any trace just soldered, on purpose or a mistake? Places where SMD's almost look like soldering points touch where they should not but forgot close ups on those, one of the legs on a mosfet looks slightly burned etc.. etc.. but hard to say and perhaps nothing extremely obvious optically other than this, could be a Monday example I have yet to see other motherboards live so? If they all look like this I have to say I will also look at other brands in the future.

I am curious, anyone happen to know of anyone that DIY improved his/her motherboard? Anything from the ground up even making the PCB to just swapping some components to better quality or anything else exiting to read about, not sure what to search for to get any results or possibly there are none? The chain will always have a weakest link I get that but still curious and interested in general, basically anything can be improved if the will is there I truly do believe that but could also be fun.

1.jpg

2(2).jpg

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I can only guess.

  • First of all, it's really your seller's job to answer these questions. And get you a working wheel.
  • 160602... might be an old part, or mean nothing. I'm don't know if the ACM existed back then (June 2016). @KingSong69 Help:efee47c9c8:
  • There should also be a sticker on the board with the serial number (on newer wheels, mine from April 17 does not have it yet).
  • Is this maybe a 6 mosfet board, which only came with the first batch of the ACMs? I'm not knowledgable enough to see this from the pictures, but maybe? Can you look if there are 6 mosfets on the underside of the board, too, for 12 total?
  • Again, not knowledgable to judge this, but I think that's just Gotway quality (especially if this might be a very old board, was rough back then).

This is another guess, but you need a new board anyways because something's wrong and there aren't so many possibilities what the problem is. If you get a 12 mosfet board instead of a possibly 6 mosfet one this way, it's almost a blessing in disguise.

Sorry, can't say anything specific. Maybe someone else can.

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