King Song 18a 1360wh top speed fall

[esaj]

10 hours ago, Alex_U said:

Still do not know how to contact the manufacturer to ask them to increase the safety margin between max speed and cut-off speed, what was the only reason of my fall, except my own understanding of allowed risk.

We have King Song factory rep in the forums, try to contact @tinawong or check if you can find contact details in  http://www.szkingsong.com/en/index.php  (The page can be a bitt fiddly and didn't load for me right now, and I'm off to somewhere -> )

[HEC]

10 hours ago, Alex_U said:

Still do not know how to contact the manufacturer to ask them to increase the safety margin between max speed and cut-off speed, what was the only reason of my fall, except my own understanding of allowed risk.

 

You can also probably try to give a shout to @Jason McNeil here as he's one of the major reputable King Song reseller in both US as well as Europe / UK and have tight relations with them as well.

[Bryan Wells]

this is all true^

[Alex_U]

As far as my KingSong 18a 1360wh body does not recreate itself (scratches and cracks do not disappear once it gets them) as well as I do, I wonder is there a way to order the EUC's body from the manufacturer, so that I could have a spare one to replace a completely worn out one?

[MikeSwan]

Re tilt back.. If you are going downhill, the wheel is already tilted back. So perhaps any tilt back warning could not be perceived. The question is, will the wheel still give a tilt back warning if the device is already tilted back (you indicated that the hill was abt 5 degrees, meaning that the wheel is tilted back 5 degrees)

[Alex_U]

8 minutes ago, MikeSwan said:

Re tilt back.. If you are going downhill, the wheel is already tilted back. So perhaps any tilt back warning could not be perceived. The question is, will the wheel still give a tilt back warning if the device is already tilted back (you indicated that the hill was abt 5 degrees, meaning that the wheel is tilted back 5 degrees)

I remember, how my wheel tilted back on similar downhill some time ago at 20 km/h. At 40 - I did not notice the same feeling, that's why I concluded that there was no tilting back at the moment of my epic fail.

[Cloud]

3 hours ago, MikeSwan said:

Re tilt back.. If you are going downhill, the wheel is already tilted back. So perhaps any tilt back warning could not be perceived. The question is, will the wheel still give a tilt back warning if the device is already tilted back (you indicated that the hill was abt 5 degrees, meaning that the wheel is tilted back 5 degrees)

The wheel should still tilt back, even though the pedals are already at an angle when going uphil/ downhill. The pedals are at an angle to the slope but they are still at 0 angle to the horizon. . the wheel will still consider the pedal position as horizontal  and will still tilt back to the same ange in relation to the horizon, not in relation to the angle of the slope

Edited June 26, 2016 by Cloud

[Jason McNeil]

On 6/21/2016 at 5:06 AM, lizardmech said:

Potentially the motor was generating 70V+ while the battery pack was at mid 60s. In that situation it's impossible for the motor to produce any torque. 

With four physical parallel sets (8p actual) of battery packs, shouldn't the 128 cells be capable of absorbing this excess power? Next generation Wheels really should implement internal data-loggers so that these events can analyzed.

8 hours ago, Alex_U said:

I wonder is there a way to order the EUC's body from the manufacturer, so that I could have a spare one to replace a completely worn out one?

@Alex_U KS or your distributor should be able to accommodate any part requirement you require, including the body shell, bearing in mind that the shipping costs (especially to Russia) can be prohibitively expensive.

[lizardmech]

6 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

With four physical parallel sets (8p actual) of battery packs, shouldn't the 128 cells be capable of absorbing this excess power? Next generation Wheels really should implement internal data-loggers so that these events can analyzed.

Max charge current on the high capacity cells appears to be around 2A, while some of the 2600mah ones go up to 6A. Leaves you with only 16A charge limit on most cells.

[Bob de Bie]

Hi guys im was driving my new kingsong 18a 1360wh 1200watt (1100)

When it shots down at a speed between 30kmh and 35 kmh 

Im trying to gett contact whit kingsong butt know response how could a wheel that has a top of 40 shot down before going 40  

[Alex_U]

2 hours ago, Bob de Bie said:

Hi guys im was driving my new kingsong 18a 1360wh 1200watt (1100)

When it shots down at a speed between 30kmh and 35 kmh 

... how could a wheel that has a top of 40 shot down before going 40

Buddy, cannot even look at you. So sad. I hope you will recover after awhile, you definitely should at your age.

Looking at you, I understand how lucky I was.

First of all, why did you brake with you hands? Alpine skiing helped me to understand that in case of falling - do not spread you hands or legs, just group, pull yourself together.

Once I stepped on EUC, I started imagining how would it have been, if I had fallen, how would I have grouped, where would have been my arms and legs, how would I have spinned my body. The last thing is of utmost importance: once you start falling while moving at a high speed like yours (35 km/h or more), try to bend yourself forward and simultaneously rotate clock- or counter-clockwise, so that you hit the ground already spinning like a wheel. In that case you'll lose some of your skin, which will recreate itself without sign after awhile, but your bones will remain in one piece.

Another thing - while doing these crazy things I drink mumio (try to Google for Shilajit). It helps to make your skeleton at least twice as stronger and has absolutely no side affects.

By the way, during Summer time I drink it to suppress allergy as well, which lasts in my case since June, 10 until August, 10 every year (it is due to herbs' blossom). No medical pills really help me, but mumio removes almost all sings of allergy (it does not heal, just blocks symptoms, but its effectiveness is much-much higher than traditional meds). It is the best antihistamine natural thing, I drink it without limitations. One more thing - after bee bites I have absolutely zero reaction, if I drink mumio. If not, point of bite swells. So sorry for that long explanation, but I could not hold myself to share it with you - it may help someone.

So my questions to you:

1. What is the cut-off speed of your wheel, when you lift it and let it spin unloaded?

2. What was your battery level, when you fell?

3. What was speed limits setup (all 4 indicators)?

4. Did it tilt back, before you fell?

5. What is its total mileage?

P.S.

After my fall, though all body protection has arrived, I still roll unprotected. I came to the conclusion - It won't help. The only protection you should have - is in your head.

 

[Bob de Bie]

1. cutt of speed should be 45 after testing in the air it more like 42 app speed

2. battery full 90% 

3. 38 39 40     rocket 40 

It did not lift my veet but acording tot app when shut down I wasn't going faster than 35 

4. Total km is 43 km butt im not new driving this kind of wheel also got a got way olmost 2years

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Holy cow that was a bad fall.  Although I have a need for speed (I'm finding my NB1E+ a little slow), after seeing some of these injury photos I'm sort of glad I can't go faster!  It looks like you fell on your arm shattering it in a few places and sprained your other wrist.

Hopefully things will mend up with time.

[Bob de Bie]

Most will heal but my hand will never be the same is all metal in side and that because my new kingsong wheel shots down between 30kmh and 35 kmh will not be able to get as flexible as it wash I think this should be fixd by kingsong I understand by going faster dan top speed it shots down butt it wasn't top speed jet

 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Bob de Bie

[steve454]

15 minutes ago, Bob de Bie said:

my hand will never be the same

I fell going about 2 mph on my generic because I was about to go over a big sidewalk groove at an angle and my brain locked up trying to decide what to do and then either the wheel shut off or something but I fell forward and put my hands out to catch myself and when they hit concrete and I got up my left hand hurt really bad, the ring finger and the one next to it, so bad that I went to the emergency room to make sure they weren't cracked.  They weren't but the doctor said I had contusions, they swelled up bad and I still can't straighten them all the way or bend them all the way.  And it's been 6 months.  But I am 59 and you are young, you have a much greater chance of recovering fully than I.  Fortunately I was wearing wrist guards or I might have a broken wrist.  I am looking into that Mumio stuff that @Alex_U mentioned.  Some kind of supplement could help you heal faster and more completely, ask your doctor.

5 hours ago, Alex_U said:

mumio removes almost all sings of allergy

How do you take it, before meals?

[Cloud]

24 minutes ago, steve454 said:

I fell going about 2 mph on my generic because I was about to go over a big sidewalk groove at an angle and my brain locked up trying to decide what to do and then either the wheel shut off or something but I fell forward.

Need to be careful going slow over obstacles. Even the most powerful wheels can lose balance when trying to go over little pot holes, uneven spots too slow. Each onstacle needs its own adequate speed to go over. Hope you will fully heal

[steve454]

Thanks @cloud, since that fall I always use full finger gloves with built in wrist protectors and a skateboard helmet to protect the back of my head.  It does seem that the faster you go the less stress on the wheel, because it does not feel the bumps and try to correct for them.  It just keeps going. @EUC Extreme said that also, while going over tree roots, just go faster and you will not be bothered.  I am not that good yet.

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, Bob de Bie said:

Most will heal but my hand will never be the same is all metal in side and that because my new kingsong wheel shots down between 30kmh and 35 kmh will not be able to get as flexible as it wash I think this should be fixd by kingsong I understand by going faster dan top speed it shots down butt it wasn't top speed jet

 

 

Man this is crazy, very sorry for the fall you took. I just saw the pictures of you in the hospital above in this thread. The 40 kph speed limit cannot be seriously perceived as the precise cut off speed. Does it even make any sense to state the wheel cuts off at 40 kph without saying what rider's weight this is for? So 40kph has virtually no meaning. Yes the safety margin should be much larger. 

In general the eucs dont have the safeties or redundances of a car or even a bicycle. So even if the speet cut off margin is increased once should be prepared to take a fall at any time and as such, going at 40 kph is inherently dangerous.

wishing you the fastest recovery!

[steve454]

Best advice ever! They must be used at risk of the owner.

On 6/25/2016 at 3:45 PM, esaj said:

understanding of allowed risk.

You can fall at any time.  Even walking.

[Alex_U]

5 hours ago, steve454 said:

But I am 59 and you are young...

I am looking into that Mumio stuff that @Alex_U mentioned. How do you take it, before meals?

59 and still in battle! That's awesome.

It does not matter how you take Mumio: I take it before, after and during - never think about it. Sometime doze is match head, sometimes 5 or even 10 times higher - it depends on quality of Mumio you have. You just take it and wait for result - if you start sneezing less, you're on the right way.

9 hours ago, Bob de Bie said:

1. cutt of speed should be 45 after testing in the air it more like 42 app speed

2. battery full 90% 

3. 38 39 40     rocket 40 

It did not lift my veet but acording tot app when shut down I wasn't going faster than 35 

4. Total km is 43 km butt im not new driving this kind of wheel also got a got way olmost 2years

 

That's strange. I start thinking, that my wheel could cut off at 35 as well as yours - I did not measure the speed at that moment. And it's strange yours did not tilt back as well as mine - so this should be a sign: if it does not tilt back - slow down immediately, because motor and battery cannot handle your speed. What do you think, guys?

[Cloud]

6 hours ago, Alex_U said:

And it's strange yours did not tilt back as well as mine - so this should be a sign: if it does not tilt back - slow down immediately, because motor and battery cannot handle your speed. What do you think, guys?

Well yeah, if you heard the beeps and tiltback is set to kick in right after, and you keep accelerating and no tiltback, then something is wrong , the safety is not working and one should slow down. But one should slow down in any case if he is above his own preset speed beeps. Tiltback is there to force you to slow down in case you somehow are unaware of your speed or choosing to ignore it. Not really for some conscientious enough to not reach the top speed. One really should not be relying on tiltback alone as the speed limiting mechanism. And if you are someone who is relying on that alone, you are not going to slow down after the speed beeps.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Cloud

[US69]

16 hours ago, Bob de Bie said:

1. cutt of speed should be 45 after testing in the air it more like 42 app speed

2. battery full 90% 

3. 38 39 40     rocket 40 

It did not lift my veet but acording tot app when shut down I wasn't going faster than 35 

4. Total km is 43 km butt im not new driving this kind of wheel also got a got way olmost 2years

 

First: Welcome and hopfully a good recovery for you!!!

 

Thats all hard to understand....

 

So you are an experienced Driver...you do not look heavier than 80/90kg....and the KS18 Drops out/shut off at about 35kmh on 90% Batterie with 1360wh? On other threads you even say it was more about "just" 28-30kmh when it shut off?!

 

Something is seriously strange here...even the KS16 800W has an "lift oft cut off speed" of about 48kmh with up to 80% Batterie...and still 44kmh on 50% batterie

If your KS18 1200W did not even go to a "lift off cut off speed" of 42kmh i would guess your Motherboard or one of your batteries or somethine else is/was defective!

Perhaps only one 340 batterie or 680wh are connected or something else defective? Just guessing.....

 

a bit off Topic...... but:

For this 38 39 40 rocket/tilt 40 Setting.........

I had some nearly same Settings on my KS 16

0 0 29 rocket/tilt 30

And on a "very fast/to hardcore" high Speed acceleration the tiltback "ejected me" by 32-33 kmh  from the wheel! and then i looked nearly like @Alex_U

So i was also lucky!

What i can only advice everone who likes high Speed riding...set one of the alarms a good step before tiltback...example 25/26 29 rocket 30...

Then you have time to react to the first beeps and can not get into a to "heavy tiltback" Situation....

Edited July 4, 2016 by KingSong69

[Bob de Bie]

Thanks shot down wash between 30 35 try to great 2 second time on a speed testing bank whit speed testing bank it shots down when app speed wash 35 

Acording to my self whit the acident I wash going 30 butt the fall wash heavi so try to make simulation in the simulation it was 35 kmh my weight is 78kg  test subject wash around 66 kg maybe this makes the difference 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Bob de Bie

[US69]

13 minutes ago, Bob de Bie said:

Thanks shot down wash between 30 35 try to great 2 second time on a speed testing bank whit speed testing bank it shots down when app speed wash 35 

Acording to my self whit the acident I wash going 30 butt the fall wash heavi so try to make simulation in the simulation it was 35 kmh my weight is 78kg  test subject wash around 66 kg maybe this makes the difference 

Sorry Man,

i do not understand what you "mean" with

---"a speed testing bank with speed testing bank"

and

---"in the simulation it was 35 kmh my weight is 78kg  test subject wash around 66 kg maybe this makes the difference"

What Simulation you have done? Test subject? How you have done that "Simulation"???

 

What we are all talking about is:(Lift up Maximum speed test)

-Give Power to the wheel.....start the app...

-Lift the wheel up(Carry it, so the wheel is not on the ground/bottom anymore) and move it (slowly) into a litte front/back direction, so that the wheel begin to spin from alone....(lift test)

-On a fuel Batterie a KS16 then goes up to a max Speed of 48kmh before it stops Spinning and beeps.....(=Maximum Speed on lift up)

 

 

i know KS18 Riders here that are good over 100kg.....your (Little) 78kg could not be the fault for the Shutdown at about 30-35 on 90%batterie on a flat surface.... 

[Bob de Bie]

In the air wheel shots down at 42 kmh uhm I wil try to explain my test 

 

I test it the kingsong 18a on a runnig belt that was the simulation uhm like in the gym to get fit wanne try out is happend again whit some on top but than safe way I hope you understand it