Purchase advice: Gotway MCM4 HS vs. Ninebot E+

[Kimball]

20 hours ago, houseofjob said:

@Kimball If it helps your decision at all, I would personally never get a wheel that has an 800W nominal motor combined with a battery cell count as low as a ~320-340wH pack, as evidenced by all the issues experienced with the Ninebot One P Pro (800W motor, 360wH battery).

That would rule out the MCM4 HS 340wH and, if the KS-14C you list is the 800W motor version (there is a 500W version as well), the KS-14C 340wH.

Good 800W wheels with enough battery cells to support all that power tend to cost ~$1200 and up.

I actually think a Ninebot One (E+ or S2) would suit your needs nicely, especially considering price and the specs of the wheel you are coming from. Firmware issues only occur when you blindly upgrade without knowing what you are upgrading to. The process is manual, initiated by the user, so just don't do upgrades until you confirm with multiple sources. 

It actually does, as I would hate paying for something thats unreliable, I usually do pretty extensive research before buying tech stuff (half the fun isnt it?) so I greatly appreciate the input, it helps narrowing down choices!

19 hours ago, HEC said:

I've got the Orbwheel from teknik magasinet as well when it was on sale for 1999 SEK and I can asure you that anything you'll buy will be better than this cheap rattling plasticy EUC

I doubt though that with your weight you've managed to squeze more than 5 or 6 km range out of it even riding very slow and on flat. If you taller then even less. For your required commuting / riding distance, weight and considering large amount of windy days decreasing your range dramatically you'd need at least 320 - 340 Wh battery as minimum, preferably though 540+. The same goes for sustained motor power rating. 500 W is the bare minimum, I'd say for the safety at least 550 - 560, if posible aim for 800 W motor. Few bumps or deep dives on bike lanes transiting down to road on the crossings and you'll be glad to have the extra  power to keep you upright. Finally with higher weight and larger feet you shall aim for large peddals as the feet get cramped on small ones during longer rides.

Another thing to consider is that while you might be happy with initial max range of 12 - 15 km as you'll ride more you'll find out very soon that you have never enough battery capacity / range and you'll be wishing for more. I speak from my own experience here. While I don't need more than about 5 - 6 km range for my daily commute and most of the times I can make both trips on one charge unless it's too windy once I'll go for leisure ride I end up having prematurely cutting my trip and heading home on low speed praying I'll make it back before battery completely drains.

Despite your budget limitation I'd still consider geting KS 16 (1175 GBP delivered including free pickups in case of warranty) even if that would mean saving a bit longer for it and get it a bit later as in long run it would save you the hassle of "upgrading" unsuitable EUC later on down the road. If you though aim to have the new wheel soon for this summer it's a tough choice. I've ordered KS 16 for all the reasons mentioned above as I've got finally tired of limited range.

Same here, and honestly I didnt think Id like riding it that much but Im pretty hooked, will be moving closer to Gothenburg centre at the beginning of August as well, which gives me easy access to alot of nice roads to explore.

I do understand a 800w wheel would probably do me good in the long run, honestly though, Im pretty scared of face planting, I am athletic in many sorts of ways, but I sure aint when falling, and face planting at higher speeds would... suck. It will happen I guess, and doing it at 20km/h will hurt AF as well Im sure, Im just not sure I really need all the power as of yet, but I am considering it. Just blows choices in Sweden are rather sparse to say the least...

19 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I think @FORWARD california does ship internationally as far as I know, but I don't know after shipping and import duties costs whether there's any savings versus buying locally.  They do have some limited blue editions for $449 which does bring things down further.  You can always paint/vinyl wrap/Plastidip if the blue isn't your style.

I guess it comes down to how much you see yourself using the wheel.  Spending a little more for a much nicer wheel can be exponentially worth the additional cost.  $990 vs $1400 is only a $410 difference.  I know it's difficult to wrap your head around spending over $1000 on a single wheeled device, but keep in mind the better ones go faster, are safer, and can take you a lot farther.  Say a Honda Civic costs $1000 and a Honda Accord V6 costs $1400.  Which one would you buy?

Yup they do, but the shipping qoute was about 300$, add 25% VAT as well as 15% custom fees and Im pretty screwed.

Car references doesnt work for me as its on of the things in life I never had any interested in. Im maybe leaning to comparing +1000$ wheel vs. 1400$ to Nvidias new GFX cards, GTX 1070 does the job all well enough for most, but it sure as hell is fun rocking a GTX 1080 as well, just not sure the fun actally scales with the price.. This reference does suck for anyone not tech-interested though, so its just as bad... oh well. 

Just now, yourtoys7 said:

Let us know what you buy and your experience, always interesting to hear from 1st. time buyers.

I definately will! I dont know yet, and I dont want to get all too excited, but I MIGHT have found a Ninebot One E+ with 2 year warranty @ ~830$ with 2y warranty. Just need to clear some small things up first. If Im unlucky it'll come out at 950$ instead, but Im holding my thumbs for this one.

[Shoe73]

I have both a Ninebot one E+ and an IPS 191. They feel about the same power wise to me although the IPS is faster. They both struggle to get me up a nearby pedestrian overpass. The Ninebot is a little more nimble, while the IPS is more stable, probably due to the wider tire. The Ninebot is definitely the most comfortable of all the wheels I've tried with the big pedals and comfy side cushions. I seem to use it most often these days. 

[houseofjob]

@Kimball Another consideration, often not mentioned on these forums, is re-sale value (especially since price is a primary concern).

As Ninebot is often deemed the Apple of EUCs (relatively high build quality and components, plus excellent design), IMO, Ninebot wheels will hold their value better than most, just as used Apple products do.

When/If you decide to upgrade from the E+, the Ninebot design will go along way in attracting potential buyers of all skill levels. Of course, you will be able to find Ninebot E/C+ owners looking to upgrade on the cheap, or riders looking to upgrade from their cheap, generic no-name wheels. But for the casual onlooker who knows nothing about EUC brands, many will be attracted by the Ninebot design alone. This is also the reason why many brands have decided to release their own emulations of the Ninebot design (eg. KingSong KS-16, IPS Zero, and to a lesser degree, the Gotway MCM4).

[Kimball]

17 hours ago, Shoe73 said:

I have both a Ninebot one E+ and an IPS 191. They feel about the same power wise to me although the IPS is faster. They both struggle to get me up a nearby pedestrian overpass. The Ninebot is a little more nimble, while the IPS is more stable, probably due to the wider tire. The Ninebot is definitely the most comfortable of all the wheels I've tried with the big pedals and comfy side cushions. I seem to use it most often these days. 

It seems alot of people really enjoy the comfort the Ninebot pedals give, which definately makes me extra interested since long runs on my generic one now isnt very comfortable at all, I might have high pressure on the tires though, need to check that out. Im a shoe size eur 42, so my feet aint that big (Im only 180cm @ 90-95kg atm) so I think Im pretty standard, except for being a little buffed which adds some kgs.

17 hours ago, houseofjob said:

@Kimball Another consideration, often not mentioned on these forums, is re-sale value (especially since price is a primary concern).

As Ninebot is often deemed the Apple of EUCs (relatively high build quality and components, plus excellent design), IMO, Ninebot wheels will hold their value better than most, just as used Apple products do.

When/If you decide to upgrade from the E+, the Ninebot design will go along way in attracting potential buyers of all skill levels. Of course, you will be able to find Ninebot E/C+ owners looking to upgrade on the cheap, or riders looking to upgrade from their cheap, generic no-name wheels. But for the casual onlooker who knows nothing about EUC brands, many will be attracted by the Ninebot design alone. This is also the reason why many brands have decided to release their own emulations of the Ninebot design (eg. KingSong KS-16, IPS Zero, and to a lesser degree, the Gotway MCM4).

Ive actually given this a thought, but as I hadnt read about it anywhere I wasnt sure my assumption was correct. This is a big thing though, as Ive bought every single iPhone to date the year they are released while selling my older version Im very aware about its high re-sale value, and I love it. I mean sure I wont be thinking about upgrading from the Ninebot One E+ that soon if I get one, I hope, but when I do a couple years later it should definately be easier to sell at a decent price with this in mind. I really appreciate the input! Its leaning towards NBE+ for sure, and if nothing goes wrong I should have it at a decent price from Norway (strangely enough). But Ill keep the thread updated. GFs gonna kill me.

[HEC]

34 minutes ago, Kimball said:

GFs gonna kill me.

Or - show her this post:

and get money ready for second (well third) EUC

[US69]

@Kimball

what would you think about a used ks14c 680wh 4 months old? Location germany? including warranty etc?

 

i have a Ks16 siiting/waiting for me in Thailand.....and also want to go up to a Ks18 ....

and as transportation and buying of all this needs some money i can/Think about let my Ks14 go....

pm me if any interest....

[Kimball]

14 hours ago, HEC said:

Or - show her this post:

and get money ready for second (well third) EUC

Haha, well her balance is not that good even when riding a bicycle, so I could never talk her into trying EUCs, but I appreciate the thought.

12 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

@Kimball

what would you think about a used ks14c 680wh 4 months old? Location germany? including warranty etc?

 

i have a Ks16 siiting/waiting for me in Thailand.....and also want to go up to a Ks18 ....

and as transportation and buying of all this needs some money i can/Think about let my Ks14 go....

pm me if any interest....

I probably should have checked the market for used EUCs first, it occured to me but I didnt go through with it :/ I have actually pulled the trigger on a NOE+ which will be shipped this weekend, so unless something unexpectedly happen Ill have it for next week :/

[vet0n]

Hello community,

Thanks for sharing your expirience, liked this thread a lot and just registered to bring the topic back to life.

I'm was riding 14'' Kwheel x5 for half a year (yeah, I know...), it did its job teaching me to ride and surviving a number of falls. The device is pretty dumb: no bluetooth, no settings, behaves unevenly above 15 kmh, etc. Now I'm looking for an upgrade.

I'm pretty lightweight (60kg), do not travel long distances (132wh was nearly enough) and will not do a lot of offroad or climbing. From upgrade I'm looking for a smoother ride and a top speed of above 25kmh (though after reading about face planting I got concerned). Still want it to be light and compact (mine is 14'' and near 10kg).

The only other thing I tried so far is friends 16'' Ninebot One. it feels much more smooth and predictable.

An hour ago I was convinced that Gotway MCM4 is my choise (perhaps 260wh for the beginning and upgrade the battery later if needed), but here its not a popular option for its firmare issues I believe.

So for now my shortlist looks the following:

* Gotway MCM4

* KingSong 16

* IPS Lhotz

* Inmotion V5D

* Inmotion V8

From tech specs all those seem a good match. I like Gotways design and price.

Please could you share your thoughts on how to evaluate those options further to get the best match? What else would one consider (app features/usability, stability, comfort)?

Thank you!

[Cloud]

7 minutes ago, vet0n said:

Hello community,

Thanks for sharing your expirience, liked this thread a lot and just registered to bring the topic back to life.

I'm was riding 14'' Kwheel x5 for half a year (yeah, I know...), it did its job teaching me to ride and surviving a number of falls. The device is pretty dumb: no bluetooth, no settings, behaves unevenly above 15 kmh, etc. Now I'm looking for an upgrade.

I'm pretty lightweight (60kg), do not travel long distances (132wh was nearly enough) and will not do a lot of offroad or climbing. From upgrade I'm looking for a smoother ride and a top speed of above 25kmh (though after reading about face planting I got concerned). Still want it to be light and compact (mine is 14'' and near 10kg).

The only other thing I tried so far is friends 16'' Ninebot One. it feels much more smooth and predictable.

An hour ago I was convinced that Gotway MCM4 is my choise (perhaps 260wh for the beginning and upgrade the battery later if needed), but here its not a popular option for its firmare issues I believe.

So for now my shortlist looks the following:

* Gotway MCM4

* KingSong 16

* IPS Lhotz

* Inmotion V5D

* Inmotion V8

From tech specs all those seem a good match. I like Gotways design and price.

Please could you share your thoughts on how to evaluate those options further to get the best match? What else would one consider (app features/usability, stability, comfort)?

Thank you!

Since you are light and dont have specific performance requirememnts, pick the wheel that is lighter and cheaper.

shortlist it to gotway mcm4' inmotion 14, or 16" or lhotz.

if i were you id go for the inmotion

[The Fat Unicyclist]

I ride an Lhotz, which has a 16" wheel, but 2.5" wide. This makes it very stable, particularly at low speeds.

It is also an awesome off-road wheel!

And at 340Wh, should be good for your needs. 

[vet0n]

7 hours ago, Cloud said:

Since you are light and dont have specific performance requirememnts, pick the wheel that is lighter and cheaper.

shortlist it to gotway mcm4' inmotion 14, or 16" or lhotz.

if i were you id go for the inmotion

is KingSong out of comparison because of its price? What factors could I evaluate to choose from the rest?

Somewhy I have a perception that Inmotion is the least reliable from the list (I dont trust devices that are too rounded, be those cars, phones, etc).

3 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

I ride an Lhotz, which has a 16" wheel, but 2.5" wide. This makes it very stable, particularly at low speeds.

It is also an awesome off-road wheel!

And at 340Wh, should be good for your needs. 

Feedback from long-time users is the best thing to consider, thanks. Are there cons you can think of?

Lhotz seems the bulkiest and the heaviest from the list which worries me... having offroad advantage is a plus still.

[Cloud]

5 hours ago, vet0n said:

is KingSong out of comparison because of its price? What factors could I evaluate to choose from the rest?

Somewhy I have a perception that Inmotion is the least reliable from the list (I dont trust devices that are too rounded, be those cars, phones, etc).

Feedback from long-time users is the best thing to consider, thanks. Are there cons you can think of?

Lhotz seems the bulkiest and the heaviest from the list which worries me... having offroad advantage is a plus still.

Oh, did i say lhotz? I must have been falling asleep. I thought you meant the Zero

anyway, ks14 with 340wh battery if you find it readily availabke is also an option. But i think it will be a bit heavier than the others. And i thought the rounded shape is more appealing.  Inmotion is pretty reliable. I just thought since you dont have a lot of specific requirements go for something lighter, with a medium size battery and aesthetically pleasing

[Gareth Tibit]

22 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Oh, did i say lhotz? I must have been falling asleep. I thought you meant the Zero

anyway, ks14 with 340wh battery if you find it readily availabke is also an option. But i think it will be a bit heavier than the others. And i thought the rounded shape is more appealing.  Inmotion is pretty reliable. I just thought since you dont have a lot of specific requirements go for something lighter, with a medium size battery and aesthetically pleasing

I believe the best wheel for power, speed and looks is the mcm4hs.

[Cloud]

@vet0n these are all good wheels. You should just pick the one that looks better to your taste. Make sure you get at least 340wh battery in it, or bigger. 

[EU_commuter]

I like the mcm4hs as well.  Bought one (340wh) a month ago to replace Airwhell X3 and have used it for daily commuting.

My daily commute is 6miles on mostly flat roads and I charge it every other day when the battery level goes down to 50% (12miles for half battery capacity of 340wh, not bad!).  After reading the posts of the forum about how to take care of batteries, I think it is optimal to charge it when it goes down to 40-50%. This way you don't charge too often and don't let the level goes down too much.  I think it is also safer to operate with battery level over 30%.  I welcome other suggestions.

What I like about the mcm4hs is it's power and speed compared to Airwheel X3.  The maximal speed on X3 is 8mph vs 17.2mph on mcm4hs - somehow I am not able to go faster even with all tilting and warnings turned off.  I am ok with the speed now but hope to have a higher, say 20mph safe cursing speed.  Mcm4hs also came with a trolley handle, which is very useful for pushing the wheel around if you can't ride it.  When it was shipped however, the screws to mount the handle were not included.  I have to order the M10-1.5X16mm screws from somewhere.

Now I have the Airwheel X3 collecting dust.  If someone in the San Francisco Bay who is interested, please let me know.  I also have no clue how much I can sell it for.  I paid Amazon $725 in May of 2014.  I guess now with two years of usage it won't worth $250?  I did put in a new battery 5 months ago.

[Gareth Tibit]

I also own an mcm4hs 340wh. I'm a lightweight(55kg) and the 340wh battery is just about right for me. I get 25miles on a single charge even when I ride fast.    For speed.. I've done 33km/h GPS speed. The wheel is just perfect for a simple long commute and an average safe speed daemon like myself..(did I mention "safe"). I think the acm and Msuper is a bit of an overkill for me. I like to keep it simple, fast and pretty...:)what is the maximum speed anyone has reached on an mcm4? I love a good challenge!:))

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

1 hour ago, EU_commuter said:

Now I have the Airwheel X3 collecting dust.  If someone in the San Francisco Bay who is interested, please let me know.  I also have no clue how much I can sell it for.  I paid Amazon $725 in May of 2014.  I guess now with two years of usage it won't worth $250?  I did put in a new battery 5 months ago.

Try listing it in the Private For Sale form here.  You never know - someone might want a starter/learner wheel for themelves or their kid who doesn't want to plunk down a grand or more from the getgo for a nicer wheel.

[nomad]

New KS lineup is around the corner, 14" first out this month, I'd get that one if I didn't already have an excellent 14" wheel (Inmotion V5F+). Internal trolley handle, 800W motor, 420Wh battery:

http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/5682-king-song-ks-14d

With the new lineup coming soon look for price cuts on the current models!

This 14" might be of interest too:

http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/4420-25-tyre-14-electric-unicycle-30-kmh-high-speed-with-bluetooth-app/

[vet0n]

@Cloud thats exactly what I'm feeling, every of those seem to cover my needs, so I will just to roll a dice  Or perhaps put everything in a spreadsheet and visualize - have to do this when intuition keeps silent. Thanks for spilling your expirienced vision on the matter!

@Gareth Tibit that was my initial point, and then I came to this forum... MCM4 still seems a good option for me, although safety concerns make me wonder. I had just one case of 4-leg landing, and happy it was something between 10-15kmh, not 25-30. The faster wheel can do, the less right its contoller has for mistake. Hope MCM4 HS (I'm looking for V3) adressed those pitfals discussed in other topics.

@EU_commuter any wheel from the list will skyrocket if compared to X3/X5. Its like changing a 20-year old compact car with a new one. Any will be robust, and quite, and efficient. But then you realize your friend has autonomous parking, another has active cruise control, and that your vehicle has 3 stars from NCAP, etc etc. Being too perfectionist perhaps, but trying to leave as least options to regret about  

@nomad looks similar to K16, and I like it for internal trolley! Release timing is against me, I was thinking to order one next week, during Aliexpress festival.

[Marty Backe]

I think the 16" wheel is the perfect general purpose size. If I could have only one wheel it would be 16". And as stated elsewhere, the 14" is generally more work to ride - very maneuverable which is a good thing when you want it, but not as enjoyable for long straight-aways. I think it's a harder size to learn on for the reasons stated in the previous sentence.

However, I believe the Gotway will be faster than the Ninebot, if that matters. Maybe a better pair to choose from would be the Gotway ACM or Kingsong 16. Both are faster with more powerful motors.

[nomad]

My full list goes like this..

Light portable:
Kingsong KS14D
Inmotion V5F+

Portable:
Kingsong KS16S
Kingsong KS16

Semi portable:
Gotway Msuper v3
Inmotion V8

Movable:
Kingsong KS18
Gotway Msuper 22"

Compact:
Gotway ACM
Kingsong KS14
Gotway MCM4
IPS 191 Lhotz

If I could only own one wheel from this list I guess it would be KS16S.