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ABS for EUCs - Do You Think It Would Be A Useful Feature?


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I know some motorcycles have ABS.  Do you think if it could be implemented, would ABS / tradtion control ever be a useful feature for EUCs?

Just trying to stir up the brain juices here - I know with ABS you sort of need more than one wheel to compare slippage to modulate the braking applied to the slipping wheel.  With one wheel you'd likely need some sort of laser ground speed sensor to detect a speed differential between the wheel and the ground.

But, and I like big butts I cannot lie, if it could be done it might help some skidding situations like what @EUC Extreme likely encounters and maybe some others braking on slippery surfaces I'm thinking?  I know EUCs are actually fairly stable on ice due to the one contact spot.  I don't know if ABS/TC would counteract the self-balancing physics though and whether the ABS braking sensation would be too unsettling.

Kinda interesting to think about even though there probably isn't a huge benefit/cost ratio to doing it.

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But... the wheel is trying to maintain (my) centre of gravity.

If it needs that much force to maintain CoG, and it loses traction then I'm screwed. 

But if some form of ABS kicks in, giving me as much power as possible (without losing traction), then it isn't enough power anyway and I'm screwed. 

Should we instead be planning a "rechargable vertical conical airbag" that simply envelopes the rider making the crash funner? 

Note: I'm copywriting the RVCA.

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5 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I know some motorcycles have ABS.  Do you think if it could be implemented, would ABS / tradtion control ever be a useful feature for EUCs?

I just got remembered again a couple of days ago that iron sewer covers are very slippery when wet... Is a bad feeling decelerating the EUC and it just slips forward...:ph34r:

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Just trying to stir up the brain juices here - I know with ABS you sort of need more than one wheel to compare slippage to modulate the braking applied to the slipping wheel.  With one wheel you'd likely need some sort of laser ground speed sensor to detect a speed differential between the wheel and the ground.

Laser would not work imho - just every leave,chewing gum papaer or branch that's stuck could cover it anytimes... Or a piece of dirt... Imho to unreliable.

Maybe with an accelerometer and/or an altimeter and all the other data that is measured could be used to compute the real ground speed and detect a slipping wheel? But i have no idea if they would be precise and accurate enough to be a base for secure ABS decisions... I.e. as most altimeters are in reality barometers maybe a sudden drop in air pressure (cold front arriving) would make the EUC thinking, that it's going down while one is driving on a perfectly flat road...

All depents, if reliable data could be gathered to "compute slippage", so an ABS would perform. Any "faulty data"/wrong decision of the wheel could lead to a faceplant instead of a bit safer decelerating... ;(

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But, and I like big butts I cannot lie, if it could be done it might help some skidding situations like what @EUC Extreme likely encounters and maybe some others braking on slippery surfaces I'm thinking?  I know EUCs are actually fairly stable on ice due to the one contact spot.  I don't know if ABS/TC would counteract the self-balancing physics though and whether the ABS braking sensation would be too unsettling.

ABS/TC should help, because slippage hinders the wheel to "go under the centre of gravity" and perform the balancing. ABS/TC is not a 100% solution to prevent slippage (and cannot be by design), but it should help improve the situation.

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Kinda interesting to think about even though there probably isn't a huge benefit/cost ratio to doing it.

If it could be done with something like the accelerometer/altimeter the hardware costs should be minimal - getting a reliable and safe firmware computing the ABS decisions will be the cost factor. And imho as many firmwares by now behave/behaved it is too early to get such "sophisticated" tasks reliable implemented.

2 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

But... the wheel is trying to maintain (my) centre of gravity.

If it needs that much force to maintain CoG, and it loses traction then I'm screwed. 

With ABS one has the chance to use some more static friction than just the lower dynamic friction.

In most cases it will not solve the issue to enable the EUC to keep perfect balance, but it should help to ease the bad effect of a slipping wheel.

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But if some form of ABS kicks in, giving me as much power as possible (without losing traction), then it isn't enough power anyway and I'm screwed. 

But it is more than without ABS - so it should/could be just enough to enable you to keep/regain balance while sliding over a sewer cover while braking to hard.

For longer braking situations (like on ice) it want really help - when one drove too fast so that to much braking is needed one just made the wrong decision and will not make it. With the ABS more deceleration will/could be possible but still everything within the physical range...

The big question is, if some ABS/TC with such (indirect) data gathering could perferm good enough to make any sensefull difference and not just introduces new faceplant possibilities...

Edit: Don't have any idea anymore, why I mentioned an altimeter for this task... 

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On a slippery ground an ABS wouldn't work on a onewheel or it must be very sophisticated. A more sensitive acceleration would be nice, so no Traction Control System (TCS) would be needed. The firmwares must undergo more improvements.

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14 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

If someone could modify this suit to inflate on impending doom now we'd be talking!

...

or some "demolition man"-style securefoam could be a neat safety option:

 

securefoam1.JPG

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It might be useful to notice that our wheels currently do have kind-of ABS on dry asphalt. Maximal deceleration is not limited by the friction between tire and surface, but by the power of the motor. The same is true for maximal acceleration, otherwise some faceplants could be prevented by traction control. 

In slippery grounds, ABS (and traction control) would be a nice feature. Sufficient input to make it work should be speed, speed change, current, and current change.^1 The good news is that no added mechanics seem to be necessary. Paying two highly qualified engineers for six months and we should have it ready-to-go implemented. Given that even in this forum most remarks on a wheel prototype go to appearance, it probably wouldn't be a smart investment of limited resources.

^1 slip is identified when the change of speed doesn't match the applied power/current (change). Traction control would also prevent the wheel from spinning up when it is lifted from the ground.

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15 hours ago, lizardmech said:

Not certain if it would work, if TCS activates it reduces torque, if that initial amount of torque was needed to stay upright you will just fall anyway.

by reducing torque, traction control will give more thrust, because it provides traction. Therefore, TC will prevent faceplants, not induce them.

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