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The KS16 Firmware Thread


Jeffrey Scott Will

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Hi I've just received my ks16b 680wh with a FW 1.13 following the site suggestions I used the new app, downloaded from kingsong-France, with my ipad instead  of my lg4 Android 6.0 to upgrade to 1.20. The Android app was scanning finding nothing 

So with 95% battery, battery charger connected, wireless on because you cannot download the new FW otherwise 

downloaded and installed successfully after loading  bar reaches 100% switch off/on both  ks16 and the app and I see the new FW. Unfortunately I'll know only tomorrow afternoon if it works for the better 

BTW I succeeded in connecting with my lg4 Android, but it was after random attempts of switching on/off the app, the ks16,the ks16 BT, so now  when I switch on the ks16 and I open the app on Android it connects but how I did it ??

I know what I did was from  @Jason McNeil  for the Android, you have to go to the app management select the king song app and activate localization permission, and it's done. Restart the app and switch on king song and the scan will work

 

Edited by EricGhost
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My KS16 will be from the new 3rd batch arrival in August. Will follow this thread to hopefully see excellent comments on the KS16 's quality. 

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6 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My KS16 will be from the new 3rd batch arrival in August. Will follow this thread to hopefully see excellent comments on the KS16 's quality. 

On the "Firmware" Thread??? i think you will find more and better stuff in the Reviews about it :-)

 

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4 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

On the "Firmware" Thread??? i think you will find more and better stuff in the Reviews about it :-)

Well - we've kinda crossed the topics here as the discussion was concentrated around the much discussed and still unclear feature of 1.20 FW in regards of the speed limiting ... IMO any info is valuable independent of which thread is it posted in ;)

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On ‎28‎.‎06‎.‎2016 at 11:51 AM, KingSong69 said:

From another thread:

 

 

According to the manual 55v are 3 leds on (4 leds >56v, 3 leds >54v). 50v are 1 led blinking (2leds on >52v, 1 led blinking is everything below) 

As far as i remember my KS16 went in the speed restriction mode with 3 leds of the batt indicator.

 

 

So it seams experiences are different at all until now....55V for me sounds more like 25-30%....for me that also wouls not be acceptable....i have driven my KS16 to 30kmh till 20% Batterie without Problems!!!!

 

please: @tinawong Can you clear this up? Give us a Firmware 1.21 where we can choose safety 25kmh on our  batterielevel, like we want, please!

Do not ruin the KS16 Reputation with Firmware that nobody wants!!!!

@HEC :-) For sure you are right.......

Time to repeat myself.....

@tinawong Can you please help? The Firmware 1.20 with  Speed restriction at 50% Batterie level is not much liked anywhere.....

Edited by KingSong69
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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

i have driven my KS16 to 30kmh till 20% Batterie without Problems!!!!

Just to comment on above - this highly depends on weight of the rider, weather and other conditions. I'd personally have no issues with speed limit of 25 km/h from 25-30% of the battery capacity as a trade of for the safety margin in case of sudden power spikes needed in unexpected / emergency situations (even with 840 Wh battery). However 50% is definitely way to conservative. Hopefully we'll get some update or clarification on this from @tinawong and / or @Jason McNeil soon.

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13 minutes ago, HEC said:

Just to comment on above - this highly depends on weight of the rider, weather and other conditions. I'd personally have no issues with speed limit of 25 km/h from 25-30% of the battery capacity as a trade of for the safety margin in case of sudden power spikes needed in unexpected / emergency situations (even with 840 Wh battery). However 50% is definitely way to conservative. Hopefully we'll get some update or clarification on this from @tinawong and / or @Jason McNeil soon.

From 20-25% on i would agree also....

From own experience: I am 100 kg and have riden the KS16 to 30km/h down to 2 lights without Problems on normal roads....that you cant do this on a bumpy road or high hill is clear! No wheel can ever do that.....even not on 80% batterie or more sometimes

 

But French Forum (arent you @Jimi00 from there?) is also reporting that it is more about when it is 50% Batterie when it sets in....so way to conservative!!!

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So after riding a little bit over 300 Km on my new KS16 from @Jason McNeil with FW v1.19 here is a few observations:

- There is no speed limitation imposed at low battery voltage / remaining capacity

- I've not experienced the "over power" warning / glitch when starting to move from lean position while standing with both feet on the wheel

- There is an annoying bug / "feature" - if you turn the voice messages off in the app (as I personally found those way to loud and attracting to much attention) it will turn back on next time you'll use the app to change the light settings from Auto to On after powering the wheel on (I'd prefer if the wheel would remember this light setting option after powering off and back on) and greet you instantly with the LOUD "Hello Kingsong!" message which is quite disturbing when I do so in the lobby of the apartment building at the evening / night / early morning :( and you need to go again to Voice settings every time to turn it off again.

- If you turn the Voice off it will also "degrade" the horn sound to pitiful / useless squeak of the built in buzzer instead - it would be much better if the setting will be separate for the voice announcement and the horn.

- The biggest issue / bug though is with the odometer - it's calculating the distance incorrectly. For real ride of 40 Km it  will add 50 Km to odo, for 50 KM ride it will add 63 Km and so on (rounded down to whole Km). So basically it's adding about 25% to the range. This might be by having incorrect wheel size in the FW or some other calculation bug in v1.19. Speed measurement seems to be spot on though as I've set my alarms at 25 - 26 - 27 - 28 and tested it multiply times passing local speed warning radar sign and I do get 25 Km/h at one beep and 26 Km/h at two beeps so it's only the odo calculation which is off.

Anyone experienced any of the above with v1.20? I don't mind to upgrade as far is it will fix at least some of the issues. I do not have problem with speed limitation introduced by 1.20 either as I hardly ever drive over 25 Km/h anyway.

And one feature I'd like to see in some future FW updates would be configurable audible alarms for battery voltage or % of remaining capacity as sometimes I just go for leisure ride without stopping for a while or checking battery status via mobile while riding and I'd like to notice when I'm reaching certain limit so I know it's time to turn back and head home ;)

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20 minutes ago, HEC said:

- There is an annoying bug / "feature" - if you turn the voice messages off in the app (as I personally found those way to loud and attracting to much attention) it will turn back on next time you'll use the app to change the light settings from Auto to On after powering the wheel on (I'd prefer if the wheel would remember this light setting option after powering off and back on) and greet you instantly with the LOUD "Hello Kingsong!" message which is quite disturbing when I do so in the lobby of the apartment building at the evening / night / early morning :( and you need to go again to Voice settings every time to turn it off again.

Upgraded from 1.13 (with the mentioned problem) to v1.20 and the "Hello KingSong" it's dead since I switch it off, while yes the horn beep it's pathetic but as it is activated from the app  I find quite improbable that I'll use it while riding.

Instead I was thinking something like an electronic horn for bike to wear like a ring:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/like/262491813016?lpid=96&chn=ps

 

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44 minutes ago, EricGhost said:

Upgraded from 1.13 (with the mentioned problem) to v1.20 and the "Hello KingSong" it's dead since I switch it off, while yes the horn beep it's pathetic but as it is activated from the app  I find quite improbable that I'll use it while riding.

Instead I was thinking something like an electronic horn for bike to wear like a ring

 

I actually have horn like this in my jacket pocket with small button on the Velcro loop I can slide over my finger. In regards of disabling the voice - it will remain disabled after powering off and on the wheel again. The ONLY situation when it  re-activates is if you switch on the light via app (from Auto to On mode) - have you tried that with 1.20? Another situation where wheel "speaks" even with Voice turned off is once you connected BT audio however that doesn't bother me that much and it will not turn the Voice settings back on like the Light option does.

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@HECI think using the horn from the app is kid's stuff and not really practicable during a ride. KS should remove ist and concentrate on things more important.

@EricGhostI don't think that it is useful to get attention by using a synthetik/artificial sound (for example a car horn). We don't drive a car. We mostliy drive on footpasses and bikeways. Most bicycles have "ringing" bells. Pedestrians are used to that sound and don't get terrified.

I use this: ca. 3€

Bell.jpeg

Edited by SeabirdHH
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21 minutes ago, SeabirdHH said:

@HECI think using the horn from the app is kid's stuff and not really practicable during a ride. KS should remove ist and concentrate on things more important.

@EricGhostI don't think that it is useful to get attention by using a synthetik/artificial sound (for example a car horn). We don't drive a car. We mostliy drive on footpasses and bykeways. Most bycicles have "ringing" bells. Pedestrians are used to that sound and don't get terrified.

I use this: ca. 3€

Bell.jpeg

I have the same one: http://www.jula.se/catalog/fritid/cykel-och-motor/cykelsakerhet/ringklockor/miniringklocka-639078/

And I can control the phone using the small remote BT tag / button so it's not a problem to activate the function of the app or play some specific sound - my colleague was suggesting a sound of large truck horn accompanied by breaking sound of squeaking tyres for the most resilient pedestrians in the bicycle lane :D

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On 7/7/2016 at 2:21 PM, HEC said:

I have the same one: http://www.jula.se/catalog/fritid/cykel-och-motor/cykelsakerhet/ringklockor/miniringklocka-639078/

And I can control the phone using the small remote BT tag / button so it's not a problem to activate the function of the app or play some specific sound - my colleague was suggesting a sound of large truck horn accompanied by breaking sound of squeaking tyres for the most resilient pedestrians in the bicycle lane :D

Not sure it will work, the unespected sound on the bike lane will create unexpected reactions from the people around

Classic bike ringing it's more efficient I think

 

Edited by EricGhost
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Yup it's confirmed.. Updated firmware to 1.20 and max speed alarm and tilt back is pushed down to 28kmh at the 50% battery mark with 57v. Went from 51% to 50% with no agressive or unexpected tilt back (tilt back feels the same when passing the max speed of 30km very mild) 

at 45% battery-  26kmh alarm/tilt triggered

at 35% battery- 25kmh alarm/tilt triggered

at 25% battery -23-24kmh alarm/tilt triggered

at 20% battery - 21-22kmh alarm/tilt triggered

Edited by vido
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On 6/30/2016 at 7:04 AM, KingSong69 said:

Speed restriction at 50% Batterie level is not much liked anywhere.....

I have a Ninebot and today rode for 1 hour 5 minutes in the morning and a few hours later for 35 minutes.  The second ride I checked the app and was down to 42% battery after I finished riding.  I noticed on the second ride that there was not the same acceleration as the first one and climbing hills was not as easy.  I could still get some speed but it did feel noticeably weaker.  The first ride was a lot more fun, with almost full power in the batteries.  It seems that Kingsong has good firmware design that monitors battery voltage and keeps decreasing the speed to maintain that reserve to save you when going over bumps or overleaning a little.  It would be nice if Ninebot had bigger battery pack so the performance would not drop so fast.

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On 7/7/2016 at 6:57 AM, SeabirdHH said:

Most bicycles have "ringing" bells. Pedestrians are used to that sound and don't get terrified.

Good point, and on bike trails it is common courtesy to say, passing on the right, or passing on the left, whichever direction is safer.  With a bell, and telling which side you are on, collisions can be avoided.

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On ‎11‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 0:24 AM, vido said:

Yup it's confirmed.. Updated firmware to 1.20 and max speed alarm and tilt back is pushed down to 28kmh at the 50% battery mark with 57v. Went from 51% to 50% with no agressive or unexpected tilt back (tilt back feels the same when passing the max speed of 30km very mild) 

at 45% battery-  26kmh alarm/tilt triggered

at 35% battery- 25kmh alarm/tilt triggered

at 25% battery -23-24kmh alarm/tilt triggered

That seems fairly acceptable and well implemented. May I ask you to perform one test for me? With the wheel set to have Voice prompts Off can you please try to turn it off and then on again and then change the light settings via app from Auto to On and let me know if the Voice prompts will remain turned off or get back on after that action? TYWM!

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On 12.7.2016 at 6:24 AM, HEC said:

That seems fairly acceptable and well implemented. May I ask you to perform one test for me? With the wheel set to have Voice prompts Off can you please try to turn it off and then on again and then change the light settings via app from Auto to On and let me know if the Voice prompts will remain turned off or get back on after that action? TYWM!

I am on v 1.20 on my KS16. No, the "Hello KingSong" and "Bluetooth is connected" are shouting immediately upon switching the light settings to On. Only if you switch the sound off again immediately after that (before turning off the wheel), the KS stays quiet. Switching the KS off, the light settings return to "Auto".

Battery (754 Wh) is at 43% with 58.0 V and the speed limits are not altered. So it seems to me that the voltage is triggering the changes to the speed limits and not the battery level in %.

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3 hours ago, ThomasK said:

I am on v 1.20 on my KS16. No, the "Hello KingSong" and "Bluetooth is connected" are shouting immediately upon switching the light settings to On. Only if you switch the sound off again immediately after that (before turning off the wheel), the KS stays quiet. Switching the KS off, the light settings return to "Auto".

While it's not technically a "bug" it's fairly annoying behaviour. This should be changed together with wheel remembering the light setting option after power off (or have the behaviour configurable - remember last setting or default to one selected after power cycle). Maybe we should start a separate thread compiling all the bugs and wishes for KS FW?

3 hours ago, ThomasK said:

Battery (754 Wh) is at 43% with 58.0 V and the speed limits are not altered. So it seems to me that the voltage is triggering the changes to the speed limits and not the battery level in %.

Which seems more logical and most of all in line with what @Jason McNeil reported earlier though still a bit "disadvantageous" for owners of the larger batteries. 

 

 

 

Edited by HEC
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2 hours ago, HEC said:
3 hours ago, ThomasK said:

Battery (754 Wh) is at 43% with 58.0 V and the speed limits are not altered. So it seems to me that the voltage is triggering the changes to the speed limits and not the battery level in %.

Which seems more logical and most of all in line with what @Jason McNeil reported earlier though still a bit "disadvantageous" for owners of the larger batteries. 

Yeah, I totally respect King Song wanting to warn people about quirky behavior on low battery but I wouldn't call 50% of a 754Wh battery "low". Perhaps they could adjust the level based on battery capacity. Based on my experience with a 132Wh generic wheel, that one should get tilt-back the moment you pull it off the charger. :P

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4 hours ago, dmethvin said:

Yeah, I totally respect King Song wanting to warn people about quirky behavior on low battery but I wouldn't call 50% of a 754Wh battery "low". Perhaps they could adjust the level based on battery capacity. Based on my experience with a 132Wh generic wheel, that one should get tilt-back the moment you pull it off the charger. :P

as you have no communication between BMS and board that would be difficult...

Easy to read out the voltage...but anymore? think you would have to adjust the number of packs (340 =2, all over =4) or the Watthours over firmware or over app.....before it is hard to make a difference....from voltage they all reed the same :-(

 

the board does not even recognoze if you upgrade from 340 to 680 or more....

Edited by KingSong69
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7 hours ago, dmethvin said:

Yeah, I totally respect King Song wanting to warn people about quirky behavior on low battery but I wouldn't call 50% of a 754Wh battery "low". Perhaps they could adjust the level based on battery capacity.

Errrr.... Guys, apart from the fact that you can't really measure remaining actual capacity accurately, it is the voltage that is important to the behaviour of the wheel and it should not be forgotten that we are talking about the voltage under load (I.e. When you are riding it at speed)

Firstly, a higher capacity battery will sag less under load than a small capacity battery so the voltage will be higher, under any given load, with a 754Wh battery than it is with (say) 174Wh battery.

Secondly, if the voltage is down to (say) 56V under load then sudden acceleration, or (say) over leaning will have much the same effect regardless of whether you have a 754Wh battery or a 174Wh battery.

using decreasing voltage as the indicator to lower top speed is almost certainly the safest method to use, you just have to remember that it IS THE VOLTAGE UNDER LOAD IT IS READING, not the resting voltage.

Edited by Keith
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