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Freeman A4H and A4 review


andress

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Looks like the A4H trades low speed torque for it's higher top speed. It sounded like the motor was struggling to say synced so it may not just be a matter of software. How does the A4 compare to the A4H for climbing hills at low speeds? If low end torque is lower on the A4H it should be easy to notice.

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I like the specs, too bad the softness increases with the speed/motor wattage.

I see the same between my KS-14C (800W 680Wh) and KS-14B (500W 174Wh switchable battery) on a lower scale. The lower end model seems to have a stiffer pedal reaction compared to the higher end model. 

I tolerate the softness of the KS-14C (hardest setting) but when breaking and accelerating out of a turn I really feel uncomfortable leaning that much forward.

But yeah over 30kmph easily makes up for that.

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11 minutes ago, Michael David de Gans said:

I see the same between my KS-14C (800W 680Wh) and KS-14B (500W 174Wh switchable battery) on a lower scale. The lower end model seems to have a stiffer pedal reaction compared to the higher end model. 

Interesting, I have a very similar observation when comparing my generic himiway 350W to my 800W Gotway MCM4HS. The generic wheel is significantly stiffer and more responsive than MCM4HS (in its stiffest "powerful" setting).

From the technical perspective it all makes sense - the motors can be either wired for speed or torque. Can't have both - even increasing power (watts) is apparently not enough to compensate.

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There is certainly much more torque while climbing my test hill with the faster A4H than with the slower A4. The difference between 350W and 500W is clear. On this hill (idk the inclination but have a look here https://mapy.cz/letecka?x=14.4154926&y=50.0937213&z=20&l=2&m3d=1&posx=458191.704&posy=5549217.512&posz=180&orientx=356.913&orienty=-22.171&orientz=0) I am not able to go up on my generic at all, on A4 only very slowly and it sometimes dips forward, on A4H still pretty slow but stable and on KS14 I can go up no problem.

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On 5/11/2016 at 2:06 PM, andress said:

So I have finally received the the speedier version of Freeman - A4H.

Now I have both versions. They look the same apart for the color of the LEDs the slower A4 version has RGB LEDs while the faster A4H has only red ones. But appearance is where the similarities end.

Here is unpacking video (turn on the subtitules): 

 

You can see the package contains, the unicycle, 1.75 A passive cooling charger (with separable cable for electricity plug), trainng wheels, air pump, extended nozzle, belt, shinguards and short manual.

SPECS:

A4-264

  • Battery: 264WH (option for 132-348 WH)
  • Motor: 350W
  • Wheel diameter: 14"
  • Weight: 11.0kg
  • Speed: 18 kmph (tiltback from 15 and beeps from 17)
  • no overheating warning
  • speed display visible during ride

A4H-264

  • Battery: 264WH (option for 132-348 WH)
  • Motor: 500W
  • Wheel diameter: 14"
  • Weight: 11.0kg
  • Speed: 25 kmph (tiltback and beeps from 23)
  • no overheating warning
  • speed display visible during ride

Few photos:  https://goo.gl/photos/GVVrvHezLDD8ba686

Impressions:

When I received the first unicycle from Freeman I was so happy about it. It was finally here and first impressions were so good. It looked good and ride was really hard (as hard as Ninebot hardest setting) but when I tried to go a bit faster I discovered that I got the slower 350W version instead of the high-speed 500W version. It was huge disappointment. No one who is used to riding 30 kmph on KS14C can enjoy tiltback and beeping at 16 kmph. So I was disappointed and looking for some solution. In the end I had to pay postage one more time and after another 5 weeks I have received the speedier A4H - 264 while keeping the slower A4-264.

In the beginning I was disapointed again, as you can see in the unboxing video I have fallen off the euc because  it was unbelievable soft. I have never tried Solowheel but this is how I imagine it. But luckily as you speed up the ride stiffens so riding over cobblestones and other irregularities in the road is ok. 

Here is a video where I test ride softness of KS14C, Freeman A4H and Freeman A4 in slow speed while idling on a spot.

You can see that out of these three the A4 has the hardest ride style, followed by the KS in hard settings and the softest is A4H. A4 is hard only as long as you don't lean enough for it to kind of give up probably because of weaker 350W motor. The stiff A4 seems to be really good for tricks as it is hard and compared to KS quite light. It also has pretty good grip for holding it with your legs for jumps.

But this grip is only possible because there is virtually no padding. The black pillow-looking thing on the side are just plastic boxes with bit of silicon over it. This made the unicycle very uncomfortable in the beginning. I understand why they include shinguards in the box. But I got used to this quite soon so in the end it is not worse then my generic unicycle. Actually riding the unicycle normally while commuting is actually quite comfortable thanks to flat grippy pedals. They are about same height as on KS14C but they are smaller so I can make sharper turn without scraping the ground. The handle isn't too comfortable as it isn't rounded like on KS but it has edges.

Regarding the range I have only tested the A4H-264 where the 264 stand for 264 Wh battery. I got about 15 km in normal city use. I live in Prague, Czech Republic which isn't exactly flat city and I weigh around 85kg. Under similar conditions I only get just over 30 km range from my 680 Wh KS14C. So I would say it is pretty good result. Downside is that the unicycle still showed 3 out of 8 battery LEDs when it refused to go over 9 kmph and I considered it depleted (no idea about the voltage - might measure next time)

This brings me to the warning system. When I say it refused to go over 9 kmph I mean the adaptive alarm. When fully charged the unicycle beeps only when reaching 23 kmph or if I overlean but when the battery level gets low it starts beeping much sooner to prevent you from going faster than the almost depleted battery can handle. I like this kind of settings as I feel safe and at the same time there is no unnecessary beeping.

Overall I am really satisfied with the performance of Freeman A4H. And if I didn't feel the need for speed (going 30 with ease on KS is addicting) I might even use it as my daily driver as the battery is enough for what I usually need and it rides well. I think it is perfect for someone that doesn't want to invest the kind of money the available top models from KS or Gotway sell for but still wants to get high quality euc that delivers.

PS: I might add more as I do more tests or if you have any questions.

 

Noooooooooooooo! The ride stiffness was the whole thing for me as far as feel and for tricks. Thanx alot for the heads up because I need to rethink my plan I might need a regular A4 or something else with the stiff response. Man that sucks!

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2 hours ago, Sidestreet Reny said:

Noooooooooooooo! The ride stiffness was the whole thing for me as far as feel and for tricks. Thanx alot for the heads up because I need to rethink my plan I might need a regular A4 or something else with the stiff response. Man that sucks!

When I asked about the softness Fiona from Freeman told me that it is matter of firmware. Maybe they could adjust it for you to make it stiff again.

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58 minutes ago, andress said:

When I asked about the softness Fiona from Freeman told me that it is matter of firmware. Maybe they could adjust it for you to make it stiff again.

Might just be startup current limit. Did you pull it apart to see if the A4H has any changes to the electronics?

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7 hours ago, andress said:

When I asked about the softness Fiona from Freeman told me that it is matter of firmware. Maybe they could adjust it for you to make it stiff again.

That would be great if they could. I have been asking Sunndy from Freeman and I cant seem to understand the answer from her about the stiffness, her answer is kind of ambiguous or hard to understand.

"For our Previous A4 series of unicycles, the software and systems are not completed.
Now our high speed A4-h series are improved a lot than before.
Moreover, we'll improve a lot further in the near future"

I'm also kind of stressed because she says that the factory is already boxing it and sending it. I hope not...at least until I figure this out with her or someone at the company.

Thanx again for the info everybody!

 

On a related note. I have been without a REAL wheel for weeks now and it is driving me mad!! :( I borrowed an Airwheel X3 and an X8 just to tide me over until my new wheel got here and it cant even jump off the ground too high without turning off...that's dangerous for someone like me who just can't stay on the ground. Not to mention the pedal lift and the forward dipping...at the speed of a turtle. Yeah yeah I know they are meant for beginners but I have soooo many new tricks on my mind, just waiting to be realized...It's like being without drinking water on a life boat in the ocean. Lol

Really Sucks my A4 went crazy and I tore it apart. I'm thinking maybe I could get it running again. Hmmmm?

 

- Reny

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1 hour ago, andress said:

The thing is we are not talking with the engineers but with the sales people. They don't know much more than we do :( 

What is wrong with your A4?

What do you think I should I do about it???

As for my A4 it is in pieces and before I broke it down it started just chattering like the gyroscope wasn't turning properly then aggressively jumping forward.

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I dont know, I guess you could try to ask Sunndy for relaying your question about stiffness to engineers or even get a contact and ask yourself. But it might be difficult :( but if someone can do it, it is you since you already got their attention with your videos enough to get a offer for free wheel ;)

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28 minutes ago, andress said:

I dont know, I guess you could try to ask Sunndy for relaying your question about stiffness to engineers or even get a contact and ask yourself. But it might be difficult :( but if someone can do it, it is you since you already got their attention with your videos enough to get a offer for free wheel ;)

Yeah I will see what happens and let ya know what they say. Talking to some engineers might be the ticket. I don't know about any special treatment though, Bush was also just a sales person though right? We'll see. ;):)

Hey what about the A4, anyone out there have ideas on that one? Here is the video of it going crazy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhd7qgxj161pazd/Dead%20Freeman%20A4%20small%20vid.m4v?dl=0

Here is a picture of the connector to the wheel, the rest I don't know what to look for.

20160513_125654.jpg

20160513_125610.jpg

Edited by Sidestreet Reny
forgot a couple words
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The connector is for the hall sensors. It would also explain the behavior of the euc if it was just damaged and sometimes passed some signals when recording the video. Did you try to put the wires back together?

 

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7 minutes ago, andress said:

The connector is for the hall sensors. It would also explain the behavior of the euc if it was just damaged and sometimes passed some signals when recording the video. Did you try to put the wires back together?

 

Not yet as you can see in one of the pictures the little black wire in the connector that goes to the wheel i accidentally ripped it out. I need to find a new connector plug I guess??

12 minutes ago, andress said:

The connector is for the hall sensors. It would also explain the behavior of the euc if it was just damaged and sometimes passed some signals when recording the video. Did you try to put the wires back together?

 

it all turns on when I plug it in to the battery but not the gyroscope 

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1 hour ago, Sidestreet Reny said:

Yeah I will see what happens and let ya know what they say. Talking to some engineers might be the ticket. I don't know about any special treatment though, Bush was also just a sales person though right? We'll see. ;):)

Hey what about the A4, anyone out there have ideas on that one? Here is the video of it going crazy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhd7qgxj161pazd/Dead%20Freeman%20A4%20small%20vid.m4v?dl=0

Here is a picture of the connector to the wheel, the rest I don't know what to look for.

20160513_125654.jpg

20160513_125610.jpg

 

59 minutes ago, andress said:

The connector is for the hall sensors. It would also explain the behavior of the euc if it was just damaged and sometimes passed some signals when recording the video. Did you try to put the wires back together?

 

Yup, certainly looks like the hall-sensors connector. There should be five wires, if the color coding of the wires coming from the mainboard matches the colors from the motor, it should be pretty easy to replace. You don't necessarily need something like exactly like the old connector, just something that prevents the wires from shorting against each other or anywhere else, and fits inside the casing... anyone who knows how to solder wires & connectors should be able to repair that for you, assuming that everything else (the mainboard & motor) is still otherwise ok.

Edited by esaj
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32 minutes ago, esaj said:

 

Yup, certainly looks like the hall-sensors connector. There should be five wires, if the color coding of the wires coming from the mainboard matches the colors from the motor, it should be pretty easy to replace. You don't necessarily need something like exactly like the old connector, just something that prevents the wires from shorting against each other or anywhere else, and fits inside the casing... anyone who knows how to solder wires & connectors should be able to repair that for you, assuming that everything else (the mainboard & motor) is still otherwise ok.

I think everything else looks good nothing is fried or missing. Have you watched the video of my A4 acting up?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhd7qgxj161pazd/Dead%20Freeman%20A4%20small%20vid.m4v?dl=0

38 minutes ago, esaj said:

 

Yup, certainly looks like the hall-sensors connector. There should be five wires, if the color coding of the wires coming from the mainboard matches the colors from the motor, it should be pretty easy to replace. You don't necessarily need something like exactly like the old connector, just something that prevents the wires from shorting against each other or anywhere else, and fits inside the casing... anyone who knows how to solder wires & connectors should be able to repair that for you, assuming that everything else (the mainboard & motor) is still otherwise ok.

The odd thing to me is the gauges of the wires going in the connector are different than the ones coming out?? As I understand it, you are saying I can just bypass the connector and solder all the wires (colors matching) and isolate them?

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6 minutes ago, Sidestreet Reny said:

I think everything else looks good nothing is fried or missing. Have you watched the video of my A4 acting up?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhd7qgxj161pazd/Dead%20Freeman%20A4%20small%20vid.m4v?dl=0

Were the wires already that torn when the video was shot? Surprised it even tries to drive the motor without the hall-sensor input... or maybe it got them intermittently at that point. Firewheel starts repeating something like "hall-sensor failure" or "hall-sensor error" or something along those lines if I try to start it up without the wires connected, guess the firmware on most wheels don't do any specific diagnostics on start-up.

Edited by esaj
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1 hour ago, esaj said:

Were the wires already that torn when the video was shot? Surprised it even tries to drive the motor without the hall-sensor input... or maybe it got them intermittently at that point. Firewheel starts repeating something like "hall-sensor failure" or "hall-sensor error" or something along those lines if I try to start it up without the wires connected, guess the firmware on most wheels don't do any specific diagnostics on start-up.

No I did that, because I thought it was dead then someone told me it could possibly be fixed. Everything was connected before I ripped them apart.

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Then before getting connectors and everything you could test the hall sensors first. The black and red wire should be power. IDK the voltage but maybe you can still power it from the board. Once powered you can measure the voltage between one of the remaining wires and the black one. It should hop from 0 to some set value and back as you spin the wheel. 

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On 5/13/2016 at 0:38 PM, andress said:

I dont know, I guess you could try to ask Sunndy for relaying your question about stiffness to engineers or even get a contact and ask yourself. But it might be difficult :( but if someone can do it, it is you since you already got their attention with your videos enough to get a offer for free wheel ;)

I will be speaking with one of the Freeman engineers on Monday about the A4H's. Let's see what they say. - R

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On 5/14/2016 at 0:01 AM, Sidestreet Reny said:

I will be speaking with one of the Freeman engineers on Monday about the A4H's. Let's see what they say. - R

Did you get to speak to someone? 

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19 minutes ago, andress said:

Did you get to speak to someone? 

Not really, there was some training crap going on yesterday so I got minimal info. Hopefully I will be able to get some answers from an engineer later tonight. Everybody else at Freeman keeps saying that the new firmware is the best yet, I guess they think that the softness was an improvement.

BTW I have already been waiting since like February for this generation to be finished. There will be months before the next generation is released too.

Edited by Sidestreet Reny
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