Seeking Advice on Choosing a Safe Charger for My Electric Devices (Including Begode EXN EUC)

[billi]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm looking for some advice on a charger for my electric devices. I own a scooter, two electric skateboards, an electric bike, and a Begode EXN EUC. I need to buy a new charger for my Begode, and I'm trying to decide between the original charger, the Pidzoom universal charger, which works for all my devices, or a Begode charger with the ability to charge up to 80%.

I understand the risks associated with frequently charging to only 80%, and I plan to do it wisely. That means charging to 100% at least once a month or every 5-10 charges (or more often if needed) and leaving it for 1-2 hours for balancing.

However, I have some concerns. I've heard that when, for example, the original charger charges at 3A and reaches 100%, the current drops to around 0.5A, which helps balance the batteries. I'm not sure if this is controlled by the charger or by the EUC’s computer. Is this true?

I don’t want to charge my devices quickly—I’m fine with charging at 3A or even less, as I’m not in a rush. I just need to buy a new charger and want the option to charge to 80% safely. If I decide to go with the Pidzoom charger, should I manually reduce the charging current to minimal levels when it reaches 100% to take the best care of my electric devices? Or is it unnecessary at lower charging rates like 2-3A? Does the EUC automatically manage the current when it reaches 100%, or do I need to do something manually?

 

Additionally, has anyone been using the Pidzoom charger for a longer period? I’ve seen some reviews mentioning that it gets quite hot and noisy. I’m not too concerned about the noise, but excessive heat seems unsafe to me.

I’d appreciate any insights you can provide. Thanks!

[alcatraz]

17 hours ago, billi said:

I understand the risks associated with frequently charging to only 80%, and I plan to do it wisely.

This is harder in practice than in theory. Balancing on these original bms boards isn't very powerful. Meaning it's designed to take out tiny imbalances regularly to work. If you accumulate a larger imbalance it could take days to take out later after a year or two when cells have aged a bit. The bleed resistors that do the balancing produce a lot of heat. I fear you'll risk damaging your bms if you attempt this.

When your wheel is new you don't need any balancing. So the first year you can do whatever you want basically. The following years it is needed more and more. The time the wheel is going to spend balancing increases with its battery age. At one point it will never finish balancing because 1. the cells are going out of balance faster than the bms can balance. or 2 the balancing circuits have become damaged. 

There might be some bms boards out there with super solid balancing circuits that can balance for a week straight that would be suitable for "once a month" but I'm not sure which wheel if any, has this.

A good practice by the users here is to go with 100% but don't charge after a ride. Charge before a ride preferably. Every once in a while let it stay on the charger until you see the same voltage (unplugged charger) in eucworld as when the wheel was brand new and 100% charged. That means balancing is actually completed.

17 hours ago, billi said:

However, I have some concerns. I've heard that when, for example, the original charger charges at 3A and reaches 100%, the current drops to around 0.5A, which helps balance the batteries. I'm not sure if this is controlled by the charger or by the EUC’s computer. Is this true?

When charging (any charger) there's a voltage difference between the actual charge level inside the cells and the voltage the charger outputs. Meaning there's a resistance in the system that "steals voltage". When you fast charge you have a big voltage difference, when you slow charge you have a little difference. 

So let's say you're charging at 3A. Your output/eucworld/multimeter reads let's say 100.0V but in the battery pack you have perhaps 98.0v. At 10A it's 100V and 95V etc.

Towards the end of your charge cycle the charger output stops increasing at the desired voltage 100.8V let's say. The real battery voltage is going to catch up. 98V, 99V and so on. The difference between the two voltages starts to decrease. WHEN that difference DECREASES, so does your CURRENT, on ALL chargers. So your 3A charger starts to slow down at "real" 98V, your 10A charger starts to slow down at "real" 95V. You'll notice that during the slowdown phase you get the same current on both chargers (past 98V). It makes no difference 20A or 3A after "real" 98V. So for regular bms balancing it makes no difference which charger current you have. Balancing is usually set to start near 100% charge, near "real" 100V. By that time your charge current is down to a few hundred milliamps. It isn't controlled by the wheel or the charger. It's automatic because of the shrinking voltage difference. Without a difference there can be no current.

17 hours ago, billi said:

Additionally, has anyone been using the Pidzoom charger for a longer period? I’ve seen some reviews mentioning that it gets quite hot and noisy. I’m not too concerned about the noise, but excessive heat seems unsafe to me.

I haven't used it but a fan is a good idea for high currrent chargers. It's safer. Cheap chargers might not be very efficient meaning they waste a lot of energy in the form of heat. So you can see expensive chargers that aren't noisy at high amps, and you can see cheap chargers that need a fan at low amps. In any case, it's good to cool down your charger, especially in summer.

Edited August 22 by alcatraz

[alcatraz]

Cooling your charger will extend the life of your charger. Not cooling it will unlikely damage your wheel or burn down your home. You'll just need to find another charger. 

[alcatraz]

Disclaimer...

IF you have a very badly imbalanced battery pack THEN using a slow charger can help you. That's because balancing will be triggered early in the charge phase when the current is still high.

The bms charge input control (overcharge circuit) will be very busy to switch the charger on/off. That can be reduced with a slow charger.

However in such a case 3A can still be almost as bad as 10A. With slow I'm talking about a 500mA charger = better for the bms.

Edited August 22 by alcatraz

[Skampster]

IMO it’s imperative on older non smart BMS’s to charge to 100% everytime you ride. For example, my Sherman S, bought in October 2023, has had 30 full charges ( I keep count) and has done 3800km’s. Today for the first time, I took the top cover off once the charger had gone green and I went in to test the actual voltage of each battery. Both batteries read 100.6v each, so after all this time, both batteries are perfectly balanced. Charge to 100%, but only just before riding, all other times keep the wheel at 60%, and that’s the best way to optimally care for your battery. Don’t worry about the 500 cycle degradation, that’s 10’s of thousands of miles away. 

[billi]

8 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Disclaimer...

IF you have a very badly imbalanced battery pack THEN using a slow charger can help you. That's because balancing will be triggered early in the charge phase when the current is still high.

The bms charge input control (overcharge circuit) will be very busy to switch the charger on/off. That can be reduced with a slow charger.

However in such a case 3A can still be almost as bad as 10A. With slow I'm talking about a 500mA charger = better for the bms.

Thanks, Alcatraz, you explained everything beautifully, and I have no further questions, thanks. Regarding charging (I bought exn in November 2022), I always charged it to 100%, and I don’t recall ever turning it off earlier. But it seems my charger has broken (I wrote a post on this forum about what's happening with my charger, but maybe it's not the charger that's damaged—perhaps it's my wheel. I’m not sure yet.), and I need to buy a new one. That’s why I thought about getting a universal charger (I have other PEVs) with the option to charge up to 80%, but I see that it might be better to keep charging to 100%. I have just one question. If I were to buy the Pidzoom charger, it would be because it's universal and allows me to adjust the charging current (A). What current (A) do you recommend for the safest charging for the device and the battery? Or do you think fast charging at 10A wouldn’t cause any issues with the battery? One of my chargers for my e-skateboard charges at 4A, and honestly, it’s already bothering me—I’d prefer if it charged at 2-3A, but the manufacturer shipped the board with this charger. Am I wrong?

Edited August 22 by billi

[billi]

8 hours ago, alcatraz said:

This is harder in practice than in theory. Balancing on these original bms boards isn't very powerful. Meaning it's designed to take out tiny imbalances regularly to work. If you accumulate a larger imbalance it could take days to take out later after a year or two when cells have aged a bit. The bleed resistors that do the balancing produce a lot of heat. I fear you'll risk damaging your bms if you attempt this.

When your wheel is new you don't need any balancing. So the first year you can do whatever you want basically. The following years it is needed more and more. The time the wheel is going to spend balancing increases with its battery age. At one point it will never finish balancing because 1. the cells are going out of balance faster than the bms can balance. or 2 the balancing circuits have become damaged. 

There might be some bms boards out there with super solid balancing circuits that can balance for a week straight that would be suitable for "once a month" but I'm not sure which wheel if any, has this.

A good practice by the users here is to go with 100% but don't charge after a ride. Charge before a ride preferably. Every once in a while let it stay on the charger until you see the same voltage (unplugged charger) in eucworld as when the wheel was brand new and 100% charged. That means balancing is actually completed.

When charging (any charger) there's a voltage difference between the actual charge level inside the cells and the voltage the charger outputs. Meaning there's a resistance in the system that "steals voltage". When you fast charge you have a big voltage difference, when you slow charge you have a little difference. 

So let's say you're charging at 3A. Your output/eucworld/multimeter reads let's say 100.0V but in the battery pack you have perhaps 98.0v. At 10A it's 100V and 95V etc.

Towards the end of your charge cycle the charger output stops increasing at the desired voltage 100.8V let's say. The real battery voltage is going to catch up. 98V, 99V and so on. The difference between the two voltages starts to decrease. WHEN that difference DECREASES, so does your CURRENT, on ALL chargers. So your 3A charger starts to slow down at "real" 98V, your 10A charger starts to slow down at "real" 95V. You'll notice that during the slowdown phase you get the same current on both chargers (past 98V). It makes no difference 20A or 3A after "real" 98V. So for regular bms balancing it makes no difference which charger current you have. Balancing is usually set to start near 100% charge, near "real" 100V. By that time your charge current is down to a few hundred milliamps. It isn't controlled by the wheel or the charger. It's automatic because of the shrinking voltage difference. Without a difference there can be no current.

I haven't used it but a fan is a good idea for high currrent chargers. It's safer. Cheap chargers might not be very efficient meaning they waste a lot of energy in the form of heat. So you can see expensive chargers that aren't noisy at high amps, and you can see cheap chargers that need a fan at low amps. In any case, it's good to cool down your charger, especially in summer.

As I mentioned before, you explained everything beautifully, but one thing just came to mind. What if I charged my EUC to 80% twice, and then every third time to 100%? Or even alternated between charging to 80% and then 100% the next time? As we know, batteries don’t like being kept at 100%—they perform best when kept between 20% and 80%. Some even say the ideal range is between 40% and 60%. The only issue is battery balancing. So, I’m wondering if this kind of compromise, with frequent charging to 100% but as I described earlier—two charges to 80% followed by one to 100%, or alternating each time between 80% and 100%—might actually be a good solution.

[Skampster]

8 minutes ago, billi said:

Some even say the ideal range is between 40% and 60%

Ideal range for what exactly? Leaving the battery unused or ideal to ride?

why are you insisting on doing X amount of 80% chargers. 
 

it’s really simple. If unused, 60% battery. When you want to ride, charge to 100% just before so. If there comes a time when you have a smart bms where you can see cell voltages, only then you can charge to whatever level you like before you ride, as long as the cells are in balance, but the 60% idle voltage still applies. 

Edited August 22 by Skampster

[billi]

1 hour ago, Skampster said:

Ideal range for what exactly? Leaving the battery unused or ideal to ride?

why are you insisting on doing X amount of 80% chargers. 
 

it’s really simple. If unused, 60% battery. When you want to ride, charge to 100% just before so. If there comes a time when you have a smart bms where you can see cell voltages, only then you can charge to whatever level you like before you ride, as long as the cells are in balance, but the 60% idle voltage still applies. 

I’m not insisting on charging to 80% every time; I listen to those who are knowledgeable and try to take care of my PEVs the best I can. It seems to me that charging our devices involves choosing the lesser evil, as charging to 100% every time decreases the number of charge cycles and shortens battery life. Although it’s unlikely that most of us will reach that maximum number of cycles, it remains a fact that it does shorten battery life.

 

The other fact is that batteries prefer to stay around 80% charge, but since the BMS doesn’t manage battery balancing effectively, you choose the lesser evil and charge to 100% regularly.

I have more experience with electric cars, and while the charging management systems in these vehicles are much more advanced, it is evident that fast charging occurs mostly up to 80%. In some cases, this takes around 30 minutes, while the last 20% can take several times longer than the initial 80%.

 

Similarly, every electric device I have is designed so that even if it shows a 0% battery level, it actually has a few percent left as a safeguard against excessive discharge.

So, as I seek the ideal way to care for my EUC, as well as my electric bikes, skateboards, and scooters, based on what I read and know from other electric devices, I’m trying to find a balance. My question is whether frequent charging to 100%, or alternating between charging to 80% and 100%, might disrupt the BMS’s ability to balance the battery and thereby extend battery life and charge cycles.

[Skampster]

Let’s math it out. 
 

My Sherman S as of now has 30 full charges. They say it’s 500 cycles till 80% degradation. 
Currently it’s at 3850km. So 500 divided by 30 = 16.67

16.67 X 3850km = 58,333kms

So, if I charge my Sherman S 500 times every time, I’ll get 58,333km till 80% degradation. 
 

So what are the chances of me riding for 58,333 km on my Sherman S.

No Chance. 
 

So my advice to you is this. Charge, enjoy and relax. 
 

PS: those numbers here are only because I generally ride that wheel to around 45-50%. For all those 30 charges, if I had actually used the full battery charge before recharging, the 3850km number would be a lot higher, giving a hell of a lot more that 58,333km total. 
I own 5 wheels, like I said, there’s no way I’m ever going to kill that battery. More that likely, the Sherman S will shit itself well before the battery does. 

Edited August 22 by Skampster

[alcatraz]

7 hours ago, billi said:

What current (A) do you recommend for the safest charging for the device and the battery? Or do you think fast charging at 10A wouldn’t cause any issues with the battery?

Fast charging isn't as big of a problem, on eucs compared to other devices because eucs have relatively high power demands. If a pack has high discharge rates then it can also be charged fast without heating up much. Many wheels come with over-current protection so you can't always fast charge. Sometimes the charge port/wires are the weakest link even if the packs don't cutoff the charger.

If you know which cells you have in your packs and in what configuration (how many in parallel) you can calculate a suitable charge current. 

There's a "standard charge" rate that's in every cell type's product sheet. If you charge at this rate and at room temp you can expect a certain number of charge cycles and capacity loss. 

You can deviate and charge faster as long as you don't overheat the cells but you might get a bit different degradation. How much worse? Hard to say.

Someone pointed out that for the amount of cycles listed in the product sheet as being common, 500-1000 an euc can travel up to 30.000km. That distance is very rarely achieved so the argument was that you can abuse your packs a lot more than what's recommended without really sacrificing anything. So maybe we don't need to worry so much. Fast charge when it's needed, otherwise slow charge. Avoid high  charge/discharge currents in freezing/hot temperatures. 

Some chargers are annoying to change the output parameters on regularly so relying on one for a lot of devices might not be practical. I find it likelier that someone would choose a current that suits most/all of the devices. Only change it in emergencies like, you need to ride far and forgot or were unable to start charging early.