Addwyn Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 On 05/25/2016 at 2:06 AM, ThomasK said: @Addwyn First of all my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I am just wondering if the burning of the main fuse you reported only a few days before the accident was the first sign that something is probably wrong with your wheel? No, I don't think so because there was a known issue with fuse that seems to have been fixed since Firmware v.1.17 ( my KS16 was firmwares v1.16 when the fuse burned). @Jason McNeil repoted this Kingsong's firmware change log: V1.16, has update over-power issue. over-power is occur when the balance has reached a limit V1.17, we have updated burn-fuse issue, update current. V1.18 has updated the total mileage calculation error. V1.19 is same as V1.18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasK Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 16 minutes ago, Addwyn said: No, I don't think so because there was a known issue with fuse that seems to have been fixed since Firmware v.1.17 ( my KS16 was firmwares v1.16 when the fuse burned). @Jason McNeil repoted this Kingsong's firmware change log: V1.16, has update over-power issue. over-power is occur when the balance has reached a limit V1.17, we have updated burn-fuse issue, update current. V1.18 has updated the total mileage calculation error. V1.19 is same as V1.18 Sounds logic, I was not aware of that. My KS is still on v 1.13 and since a couple of days updating via the app is disabled. I am not quite sure if I should be happy that I can not update.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share Posted May 28, 2016 @ThomasK, the 1.18 firmware version seems to me to be a stable release. I ride the KS16 daily and use the 1.18 version for more than 3 weeks now - no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin_rm Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 8 hours ago, Gunthor said: @ThomasK, the 1.18 firmware version seems to me to be a stable release. I ride the KS16 daily and use the 1.18 version for more than 3 weeks now - no issues. Same here, 1.18 with the 840wh premium cells model. Very stable even during high speed rides with a low battery. And the app odometer keeps counting (no resets). I recommend the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dside Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 2 hours ago, edwin_rm said: Same here, 1.18 with the 840wh premium cells model. Very stable even during high speed rides with a low battery. And the app odometer keeps counting (no resets). I recommend the update. I've got 840wh model with LG MJ1's. Is this considered premium cell model? And are there KS16 wheels without "premium" cells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 4 hours ago, dside said: I've got 840wh model with LG MJ1's. Is this considered premium cell model? And are there KS16 wheels without "premium" cells? At least last year, MJ1's were pretty much the "top-of-the-line" high capacity cells one could get. 1RadWerkstatt uses them for their largest packs & Jason uses them for the 840Wh KS16 packs. The cells have 3500mAh capacity, and the manufacturer states the "safe operating limits" as continuous max discharge of 10A and "pulse"/short-term burst max current of 20A, don't know how long the burst is meant to last though. Although, if you look around you'll see cells from less known manufacturers like Ultrafire, GTL, Focuspower. TrustFire etc. that claim even higher capacities (even 10000mAh ), but in reality, cannot store anywhere near the claimed capacities and/or produce the promised currents, and are usually fakes (they might be something like used, rewrapped laptop cells or such). For four 210Wh packs of LG MJ1's in parallel, that means 40A continuous or 80A pulse current. If the voltage would be 60V for example, that would translate to 2400W continuous or 4800W pulse power. The cells can actually go above that, but it's not considered safe (ie. the cells can damage or overheat, or whatever). Shorting a cell could probably lead to much higher currents (at least for a while, until it either vents, catches fire or explodes ). With the KS16 overheating problems, likely the mainboard will overheat way before the batteries, if used at the maximum powers. There are some 18650-cells that can produce 15/30A continuous/burst currents, or maybe even more, but that comes at the expense of the total capacity, the high discharge cells typically have a capacity of 1500-2800mAh or so, inching towards the lower end the higher the max current is. If using a lower number of packs, it could be useful, but as the motors and mainboards probably can't handle the very high wattages such cells could produce, I don't see much point of using the higher-discharge cells with 4 or more packs. They probably can't pull as much current as even the MJ1's could give (with 4 pack configuration). To produce that rated 800W of KS16 motor at 60V voltage, 4 packs need to discharge 13.333...A in total (and that's "split" among the packs, so 13.333A / 4 = 3.333... A per pack). That's about 1/3rd of the continuous power the cells are supposed to be able to withstand. If the maximum short burst for the motor is rated around 3000W, that's still only slightly above what the 4 packs should be able to deliver continuously (ie. without any time limit), and the motor / mainboard are probably the limiting components there. If the packs can dish out higher voltage, you need less current, for lower voltages, more current (for the same powers, P = UI meaning power equals voltage times current). But, Li-ion battery technology gets gradually (albeit slowly) better all the time, with the max capacities growing something like 5-10% yearly, so there could already be something slightly "better" than MJ1's available by now (or if not, probably soon anyway ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 On 5/7/2016 at 3:52 PM, DS said: I will definitely do incline test when I (hopefully in the next week or so) get my KS16. Today there were good conditions to do the incline test. The ambient temp - 24C, no sun Distance - appr. 800 m rough paved stones street Elevation - start point 714 m, end point 824 m Weight - appr. 75 kg (incl. backpack) + 17 kg the KS16 Start temp on control board 30C, end temp 51C, the fan turned on I could hardly speed up more than 8 km/h due to the cobbles and bumps on the street which I believe made the work of the wheel harder. The application showed around 15A during climbing. After that, I went down and took the parallel even steeper but shorter street. The temp raised to 54C. Then I continued up and down another 10 km browsing this mountain village and the temp was in the range 40-49C. On other similar inclined but asphalted street I managed 15-17 km/h speed and the amps were in the range 15-20 A. No overheating issues to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 @DS, I calculate a 13,75% incline and would like to confirm that I never had any problems with < 15% inclines at all even though I never watched my EUC data going uphill or afterwards. However for me the >15% issue is how much can I really dare pushing the wheel to go a bit faster because the steeper the incline and the higher the weight the faster you get closer to the limits of the EUC you are on. Thanks for the tip to play music while riding - this definetely in ONE way of reducing the awareness of perceiving the high pitched noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Gunthor said: However for me the >15% issue is how much can I really dare pushing the wheel to go a bit faster because the steeper the incline and the higher the weight the faster you get closer to the limits of the EUC you are on. What I've observed is that the EUC reports "Overpowered" when the watts draw is around 2800 watts. I have heard it only once when I pushed the wheel to test the overlean limits. In real riding I did not over lean it, the wheel performance covers quite many rode situations. My wheel reported "Overpowered" several times when I just step on and start (not heavily) due to firmware issues and three times I even needed to step off and because of that currently I always start very slowly and carefully especially when it is a short time (5-10 sec) after the power button has been turned on. Firmware issues are kind of worrisome. I regularly pass one really steep stairway underground path (3-4 m long), usually a bit in diagonal way for more easiness, but yesterday intentionally passed it directly and measured 30 Amps burst with the old app. I could not measure the watts because the new app did not turn on...I'm still with 1.15 firmware, waiting for stable release. So, I passed that steep incline slowly, felt is gonna be above the wheel limits to push it for speed and everything was OK. The proper way IMO is the wheel to reports on time (in advance) when the limits are reached - "Overpowered", "Overheated", "Decrease the speed", "Low battery", etc. Our human perception of limits is not reliable, depends on many variables and often is overshadowed by emotions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 6 hours ago, DS said: My wheel reported "Overpowered" several times when I just step on and start (not heavily) due to firmware issues and three times I even needed to step off and because of that currently I always start very slowly and carefully especially when it is a short time (5-10 sec) after the power button has been turned on. Firmware issues are kind of worrisome. Is that a common finding with other KS16 wheels? I wonder if it might be prudent to contact your seller to see what they think as that sounds very strange that this is happening every so often. Could there be a hardware issue with the control board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Is that a common finding with other KS16 wheels? I don't know, haven't heard same findings from other KS16 users. 2 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: I wonder if it might be prudent to contact your seller to see what they think as that sounds very strange that this is happening every so often. @Jason McNeil is aware and in constant contact warning us for some 1.15 firmware gimmicks. We are waiting for a stable and fully tested firmware release. 2 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Could there be a hardware issue with the control board? I don't think so. The wheel feels powerful and stable in all situations except this particular one in my case (and not every time when I start - occasionally). IMO, firmware bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 On 23.05.2016 at 10:43 PM, Blunzn said: maybe this was/is the power issue @ 1:25 ? but don't know which firmware or what model he has (340Wh or 680+) That would explain this "overpower issue"....on V1.16 Change-log i am on v1.13 and always get that warning -on idling-.......BUT: no fail at all!!! i get the warning but even by doing harder idling it does not fail....and i am 100kg ...not 95 as stated before :-( i would not get to much on this Review as this guy is known as ninebot seller :-) at least until now.... and with this words he does not Sound like wanting to try selling KS :-) On 25.05.2016 at 2:06 AM, ThomasK said: BTW, does anyone of the KS16-riders know what the meaning of the 2 beeps is which I am hearing shortly after beginning to ride (during the first 20 to 100 meters)? Edited on Friday May 27th:- Speed limits are changed and I should have stated that when I hear the 2 beeps within the first 2 minutes of driving it is certainly not due to the fact that I have reached the 1st speed limit. I thought of this possibility as well and tested for it but I get the 2 beeps even if I drive the 1st 5 minutes 10 to 12 km/h only. Voice warnings are switched on, but no voice warning to be heard - only the 2 beeps. Not going downhill on a fully charged wheel. And no sharp breaking. Just cruising slowly on relatively flat surface. @Addwyn First of all my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I am just wondering if the burning of the main fuse you reported only a few days before the accident was the first sign that something is probably wrong with your wheel? I asked this question to KS Thailand and as i understood its a sign for Bluetooth "is on" or "bt available" as Long as you have the voices dissabled... or at least a sign of something for Bluetooth somewhat.....i get it after 90 seconds after a new start of the wheel...my voices are off...V1.13... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Can the KS app turn off the voices in my head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dside Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 43 minutes ago, esaj said: Can the KS app turn off the voices in my head? Are they saying "wooOOoo, buy a KS16.. it's a great wheel... you won't regret it.. woOOoo". In that case, I don't think they can be turned off. You just have to discover a better wheel. Or do what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: i am on v1.13 and always get that warning -on idling-.......BUT: no fail at all!!! i get the warning but even by doing harder idling it does not fail. In my case (v.1.15) even in hard idling I never get warning "overpowered"...only when I start riding and it fails and throws me off...a bit embarrassing....happened again just one hour ago when I "proudly" showed what futuristic technology is under my control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin_rm Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 @DS I had that firmware you have the first day I got my wheel, but I updated to 1.18 before my first ride. I assure you thou, there is no such problem in the 1.18 firmware (which I have installed). So once KingSong makes it available for download again, you're problem should be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, edwin_rm said: So once KingSong makes it available for download again, you're problem should be gone. Yeah, I hope so and I'm confident about that. Currently, the app does not show updates and the KS are fully testing the stable version of firmware. Thank you for the care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 @DS your New Kingsong App will Not Turn on? so don't work? you have to Grant The App Access to all rights...Location Detection etc etc.... then it will work :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: you have to Grant The App Access to all rights...Location Detection etc etc.... These settings are not optional and all requested permissions are granted. Just the app is beta version and does not work well with 1.15 firmware. This will be solved later with updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 On 6/5/2016 at 8:17 PM, Gunthor said: @Addwyn ,... The funny thing with the KS-App is, that it always offers a higher version (1.19) to download than there is (1.18). So my question to you @Addwyn is if you really installed firmware 1.18 or if you installed the firmware when the app displayed "New version: 1.18" when doing the upgrade. Because then you'd be running version 1.17 and maybe KS already corrected the bug in version 1.18... (that's called "wishful thinking" )? Today, I downloaded firmawre "NewVersion" v1.20. After the [Update], my Kingsong Android App is showing "CurrentVersion" v1.20 (and don't offer to download "NewVersion" v1.20 anymore): Do you have the same behavior with your KS16 or do you see a "CurrentVersion" v1.19 after having downloaded "NewVersion" v1.20 and upgraded ? Thus, now, the log of my firmwares'versions and updates is: Date : Versions showed by Android App before update ----Actions---> Versions showed by Android App after update 2016 april : CurrentVersion:V1.13, NewVersion:V1.16 ---[Download]+[Update]---> CurrentVersion:V1.15, NewVersion:V1.16 2016 april : CurrentVersion:V1.15, NewVersion:V1.17 ---[Download]+[Update]---> CurrentVersion:V1.16, NewVersion:V1.17 2016 may 04: CurrentVersion:V1.16, NewVersion:V1.18 ---[Download]+[Update]---> CurrentVersion:V1.18, no NewVersion offered ! 2016 may 04: Engine cut-off accident... 2016 may 06: CurrentVersion:V1.18, NewVersion:V1.19 ---> Screenshot (no download/update done). 2016 may 22: CurrentVersion:V1.18, NewVersion:V1.19 ---[Download]+[Update]---> CurrentVersion:V1.18, newVersion:V1.19 2016 june 1st: CurrentVersion:V1.18, NewVersion:V1.20 ---[Download]+[Update]---> CurrentVersion:V1.20, no NewVersion offered ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Addwyn said: Today, I downloaded firmawre "NewVersion" v1.20. After the [Update], my Kingsong Android App is showing "CurrentVersion" v1.20 (and don't offer to download "NewVersion" v1.20 anymore): So maybe this version fixed that "odd" behaviour as well? I hope you're better @Addwyn since your accident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 @Addwyn and all others... First: I wish you a good recovery, addwyn!!!! As some may now i have been in Thailand on "The Rock"(Koh Tao) about 4 weeks, and got a brandnew KS16 (but old V1.13) with me.... Temperature on Koh Tao, Daytime in shadow about 35°-38°C, even in the late night/morning not going down under 31°C....In the Sun? Not measured, Feeling: like in hell. Koh Tao is -amongest others- called the Rock because of it's massive inclines....My weight: 100 kg (in former threads i always wrote 95 kg...but as i knew now that was just a wish of mine) As it was hot a hell i controlled the temperature of the wheel by the app a lot....as with my weigth and the inclines i in the beginnin i did not thought that the KS16 will do a Long time Job on the Rock... But: I never got/see the temperature over 61° C.....over 50° C on the app you see "refrigerating" over the announced temperature, which means the fan starts working..... In 2 or 3 situations the wheel does not do the incline because it was to massive and Long...the wheel just stopped on the way up because of missing power at the end! (i can not measure the incline but was one of that Kind where you start even sliddering by Walking down...or where you can not do a stop on riding uphill with a motorbike because you start sliddering down then....so very extrem inclines) The Point is: Even in this "oven-temperature" and with my weight i did not get even ONE temperature Problem or shutdown, which i found a surprisingly good behavior of the KS16... Also the Thai KS Group, where some of the riders are also 90kg did not Report any temperature Problems...ok...they dont have masive inclines there, but oven temperatures, too... So with the burned fuse and this next failure i would say this sounds a a board or BMS Problem in/on this specific wheel. I would write directly to Tina from KS to ask for help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johrhoj Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 26 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: My weight: 100 kg (in former threads i always wrote 95 kg...but as i know now that was just a wish of mine) 26 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: ... where some of the riders are also 90kg ... I also had to add 5 kg to my weight; used to say 105, now i accept it is really 110. You made me laugh by saying that: ... some of the riders are "also" 90kg. You sure you are not a little in denial still? But seriously, I also heard that Kingsong wheels had overheating problems. So, the first few times that i thought I had asked a lot of my wheel (long ride, ending in sprint hill up, in the sun, ambient 20 degree C), I checked the temperature through my app. No problems with heat. I must add that I am a moderate/conscionable/responsible driver, never go to the extreme. Also I have not the same wheel (I have the KS18 1200W) but I feel I never have to check for overheating anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Has anyone had any success upgrading to v1.20? For me, when trying to install it, it's not able to download... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 41 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Has anyone had any success upgrading to v1.20? For me, when trying to install it, it's not able to download... Jeffrey Scott Will did: Also, if you look 4th post above yours, Addwyn has posted that he has successfully upgraded to 1.20 in this tinnitus-thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.