Gunthor Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 @Chriull, Thank you for this hint. As soon as I know how to open the KS16 I will test drive w/o attached speaker cables. As for the firmware 1.16: Unfortunately this did not do the trick. The odometer ist still out of order! What the new firmware offers? I honestly don't know. At least the KS16 did not switch off unepectedly (I drove approximately 40 Km). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 @Gunthor: I should get feedback if disconnecting the speakers help reducing the noise. You are android user and can with the app disable the speaker output? Could/should have the same effect - or it only disables the speaker output of the warnings and leaves the speaker including the amplifiers on (you hear the "electronic noise" from the speakers in quiet surroundings and easily can determine if they are on or off..) My odometer seems to work fine - have by now about 60 km's. But since i am an iphone user i do not have any idea which firmware is on my KS16. I assume you did not notice any PWM noise difference between the different firmware versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 With the android app you can only switch off the voice. I still get the warning beeps - also when switching off the KS16 there is some sound. Not that I like it this way - but it is better than getting molested by this Kingsong voice! I would prefer uploading my own sounds like uploading ringtones to a mobile: How about the bb8 giggle when reaching a speed limit or the Pacman Death Sound when switching the unit off? This would be a fancy customization option and it would also help distracting from the PWM noise... I added another ~30 Km to my KS16 today but not to the odometer! Within the past 14 days I traveled more than 300 Km and the odometer now displays only 82 Km (please consider that the odometer showed 96 Km after unboxing it 14 days ago)! And "No" - the PWM noise is still the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 13 hours ago, Gunthor said: I would prefer uploading my own sounds like uploading ringtones to a mobile I would also prefer to have these options. For me, this message "Hello Kingsong" seems kind of inadequate. It should be my saying and from the unit something like: "Hello my dear owner" But factory could never satisfy all client variety wishes, so the best is the option to upload your own voice messages. The LED's can have thousands of programmable combinations too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Just ordered some eQuiet ear plugs - should have just 10dB damping up to 1kHz and ~33 db around 6kHz. Hope this helps against the tinnitus and still lets one hear the traffic - until an proper solution is ready (loudspeaker, FIRMWARE UPDATE, or whatever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Has anyone been able to find out where the noise is coming from (ie. motor or loudspeaker)? If it's the speaker, a band-pass stop-filter could be added between the mainboard and speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 On 20.4.2016 at 9:03 PM, Gunthor said: @Chriull, Thank you for this hint. As soon as I know how to open the KS16 I will test drive w/o attached speaker cables. ... On 20.4.2016 at 11:33 PM, Chriull said: @Gunthor: I should get feedback if disconnecting the speakers help reducing the noise. ... 1 hour ago, Chriull said: Just ordered some eQuiet ear plugs - should have just 10dB damping up to 1kHz and ~33 db around 6kHz. Hope this helps against the tinnitus and still lets one hear the traffic - until an proper solution is ready (loudspeaker, FIRMWARE UPDATE, or whatever) 1 hour ago, esaj said: Has anyone been able to find out where the noise is coming from (ie. motor or loudspeaker)? If it's the speaker, a band-pass stop-filter could be added between the mainboard and speaker? Not to my knowledge till now. My presumption would be, that the main source for the noise is coming from the wheel. If this is true, it can only be repaired by firmware. Ninebot made it the other way round and introduced some PWM noise by a firmware update - but at a much lower volume... The guess with the loudspeaker evolved, since in quiet surroundings with the turned on KS one hears the switching noise amplyfied by the speaker. So my big hope is, that the noise can be reduced a bit by disconnecting the loudspeaker - unfortionately i did not get any feedback till now. Opening the KS16 imho involves removing the two black paddings on the side, and they have to be "reglued" with double sided tape afterwards again. Since mine is still shiny and new i don't really want to mess around and decided to get the plugs as "inbetween" solution, since they are quite affordable. If it is the speaker - i would look to stabilize/filter the supply voltage for the amplifier (maybe shield it somehow). Depends on how the amplifier is situated on the motherboard. A low pass filter between amplifier and speaker could be a solution - just could be with some simple RC low pass for effectifely reducing the 6kHz one has to take away too much from the lower spectrum... Or that to much of the signal is shorted so the amplifier gets problems... And i think i would not add some more "complicated" and more sophisticated filter there. But who knows - when and if i get which feedback, when my KS crashes the first couple of times and i get to open it, it could also be the last little motivation push i need to order an Rigol. Looks really nice - somehow i don't get it out of my mind, since you "introduced" it here in your thread... You are pleased/content with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 48 minutes ago, Chriull said: Not to my knowledge till now. My presumption would be, that the main source for the noise is coming from the wheel. If this is true, it can only be repaired by firmware. Ninebot made it the other way round and introduced some PWM noise by a firmware update - but at a much lower volume... The guess with the loudspeaker evolved, since in quiet surroundings with the turned on KS one hears the switching noise amplyfied by the speaker. So my big hope is, that the noise can be reduced a bit by disconnecting the loudspeaker - unfortionately i did not get any feedback till now. Opening the KS16 imho involves removing the two black paddings on the side, and they have to be "reglued" with double sided tape afterwards again. Since mine is still shiny and new i don't really want to mess around and decided to get the plugs as "inbetween" solution, since they are quite affordable. If it is the speaker - i would look to stabilize/filter the supply voltage for the amplifier (maybe shield it somehow). Depends on how the amplifier is situated on the motherboard. A low pass filter between amplifier and speaker could be a solution - just could be with some simple RC low pass for effectifely reducing the 6kHz one has to take away too much from the lower spectrum... Or that to much of the signal is shorted so the amplifier gets problems... And i think i would not add some more "complicated" and more sophisticated filter there. I was also thinking something simple, like RL or RC. With RL, you could probably get away with something like 10 millihenry inductor + 130ohm resistor to get about 2kHz -3dB point, with RC, you could need a pretty large capacitor... but I'm not sure if 130ohm is too low resistance (higher resistance will move the -3dB point further up in frequency?) Quote But who knows - when and if i get which feedback, when my KS crashes the first couple of times and i get to open it, it could also be the last little motivation push i need to order an Rigol. Looks really nice - somehow i don't get it out of my mind, since you "introduced" it here in your thread... You are pleased/content with it? Yes, I've been very happy with it so far. Only nagging I have is that the menus are sometimes difficult to find (probably gets better with time, once I learn to remember where everything is) and the FFT-functionality isn't that good (but it's an oscilloscope, not a spectrum analyzer anyway ), although it might be I'm still using the wrong settings for it (someone mentioned that there's an option to give more sample memory to FFT): Btw, the pictures are directly captured to USB-stick from the scope What convinced me that it was a good buy was the review made by Dave from EEVBlog: That's the summary, there's another video (over hour long) where he goes through the functionality and some others (like teardown, spectrum analyzing the clock, as earlier firmware had a fault where the would be some jitter, then comparing it to fixed firmware etc...). I don't know that much about scopes, but 4 channels for 400€ isn't that bad imho. It's probably not a tool for serious professionals, but for hobbyist, it has pretty much everything you can want from an oscilloscope (there're also versions that come with built-in function generator). I'm still on my "trial period" (it comes with about 33 hours of trial-time for all the functionality), so I've still got the full 100MHz bandwidth + full memory + all the special triggers and whatnot. Once it runs out, I'll see whether I actually need them, and if I do, there's a site which can generate the keys for you... Or you can buy them from a reseller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 I would love to open up the KS16 in order to detach the loudspeaker cable (though I doubt this will solve the issue) in order to really know if the loudspeaker amplifies the high pitching sounds or not... Maybe Дмитрий Дмитрий or some others with experience opening a KS16 could offer some instructions or an official manual (in case it exists) or even a video for the inexperienced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 On 30/4/2016 at 10:36 AM, Gunthor said: I would love to open up the KS16 I have opened mine (because the main fuse had burned). The first thing to know is that there is no need to peel off the side pads (the ones with the KingSong logo). There is no screws behind them ! No need to dismount the pedals either. You'll need to peel off the small pads that are behind the pedals to unscrew the small screws. You'll also have to take off the side's LED's cover to be able to unscrew the plate of LEDs and then to unplug this plate of LEDs to put it aside. Then the shell can be unhooked by separating its edges which are near the peripheral black stripe (there are three hooks on each side of each shell). (I hope my poor english is understandable ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 @Addwyn how did you burn the fuse? What happend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 What firmware are you running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 15 hours ago, Henrik Olsen said: @Addwyn how did you burn the fuse? What happend? I was riding the wheel slowly (approximately 10-15 km/h, 6-7 mph) on the road when my pedal struck the curbstones. The wheel has probably turned a little as a spinning top before falling. When I put back it up, it was totally off. Impossible to restart it ! The fuse had burned ! (Firmware v1.16) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 @Addwyn: T h a n k y o u Excellent description - I hope your wheel is functioning again with the new fuse... I needed an hour for both sides - because I thoroughly cleaned up the KS16 while doing so. I detached both loudspeakers and rode 48 Km today. @All: The news are: The KS16 still emits the beeping sounds! So there must be some kind of beeper directly on the control-board. This also explains why the KS16 beeps when deactivating the loudspeaker with the app. Also it always puzzled me why the horn sounds different when the loudspeakers are activated / deactivated. I also kept the LED lights disconnected because I don't like riding around with this stupid light pattern (I liked the 9b1 app where you are able to switch the LEDs off). The only side effect is that now it doesn't display the battery status any longer when stopping. And concerning the Tinnitus... And I am not afraid to tell everyone what probably most of you expected: No, the high pitching sound is still present. I have another question: I still use Firmware 1.16. Did anybody of you already update to 1.17? Will the odometer function correctly? Does anybody know the improvements of firmware 1.17? Is it advisable to upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 How high does the pull up handle go from the ground? I'm quite tall in comparision to Asians, so it would be great if someone could measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Chris said: How high does the pull up handle go from the ground? I'm quite tall in comparision to Asians, so it would be great if someone could measure? About 83~84 cm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 Just to add one more thought to my previous post: Detaching the loudspeaker cable has also shown that neither the clicking sounds when switching on the KS16 nor the high pitching sounds when driving around is getting amplified by the loudspeakers (at least telling from personal perception). The noise level did not decrease! This would have been too easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Bad faceplant today !!! I was riding my KS16 for 20 minutes without any problems, with the last 5 minutes on an uninterrupted ascent, when the wheel brutally stopped !!! Results: Instantaneous drop at about 15 or 20 km/h -> Hospital : Fracture of the superior aspect of the humerus -> One month of total immobilization of the left arm. (thus, one month of work stoppage). Fortunately, I was wearing my wrist guards. If not, my hands would have been seriously abraded... The wheel is running firmware v1.18. I can't remember if there had any beep warning or tilt back just before the wheel brutally stopped. I'm only sure that there had no voice warning. But AFTER my fall, when I re-switched the wheel on, the voice said "overheat" (instead of "Hello Kingsong") ! Thanks Mr. KS, but it's too late !!! So, i'll not ride for a month now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Scott Will Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Get well soon, @Addwyn This is now getting worrisome. What good is all this power if it causes instability through overheating? It seems we all used to clamor for more power because weak motors would leave us prone to cut outs. Now we have the power, but it produces so much heat that it leaves us with the same ever looming danger... I wonder why an overheating situation has now caused at least two cut outs (that we know of) without any warning? The whole reason I've been a fan of King song is because they offer performance and safety. I live in a very hilly city, and now I'm going to be terrified to even use the thing until there is some information about these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Really sorry to hear that @Addwyn! This overheating problem sounds like something KS needs to address immediately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilmann Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Add my best wishes for a fast recovery, @Addwyn! 1 hour ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said: Get well soon, @Addwyn This is now getting worrisome. What good is all this power if it causes instability through overheating? It seems we all used to clamor for more power because weak motors would leave us prone to cut outs. Now we have the power, but it produces so much heat that it leaves us with the same ever looming danger... I wonder why an overheating situation has now caused at least two cut outs (that we know of) without any warning? The whole reason I've been a fan of King song is because they offer performance and safety. I live in a very hilly city, and now I'm going to be terrified to even use the thing until there is some information about these issues. I think, Jeffrey got a point here! I admit, at first I was a bit disappointed to learn, the new Msuper 3 will "only" offer 1200 Watt sustained power, while others (including the ACM 16) come with 1500 Watt and beyond. Next thing I learned during my GotWay visit was the attempt to fight overheating of ACM wheels with a beefed up heat sink. The KS seemd to have an advantage with it's cooling fan here. Now Addwyn's unfortunate experience has me wonder: Perhaps such powerful motors are less of a blessing than what I thought - unless they are tamed by software beyond recognition as with the Solowheel extreme? After all, I love my Msuper V1 for it's dependability. I will sure look with some envy at the fellow wheelies with their Formula 1 like racers, but I'm probably better served with a moderate power improvement while maintaining the reliability I learned to appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Now that summer has come, more cases would arise. People should not push their units to the max and be very careful. We bought these machines for fun and it should stay that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 6 hours ago, Addwyn said: Bad faceplant today !!! I was riding my KS16 for 20 minutes without any problems, with the last 5 minutes on an uninterrupted ascent, when the wheel brutally stopped !!! Results: Instantaneous drop at about 15 or 20 km/h -> Hospital : Fracture of the superior aspect of the humerus -> One month of total immobilization of the left arm. (thus, one month of work stoppage). Fortunately, I was wearing my wrist guards. If not, my hands would have been seriously abraded... Sad to have such a thing happen - hope you get well soon! 6 hours ago, Addwyn said: The wheel is running firmware v1.18. I can't remember if there had any beep warning or tilt back just before the wheel brutally stopped. I'm only sure that there had no voice warning. But AFTER my fall, when I re-switched the wheel on, the voice said "overheat" (instead of "Hello Kingsong") ! Thanks Mr. KS, but it's too late !!! So, i'll not ride for a month now Pfff.. i hope the KS does not start a firmware battle like ninebot had... and they carefully test every release! Btw - does your fan work, maybe he's stuck or somehow broken and by this the overheating was possible to happen? One hears the fan spinning continously if only the music system is turned on (the button beside the main power button). (At least with my KS16 with some older firmware version) And what was the ambient temperature about when you rode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 6, 2016 Author Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Addwyn, I'm sorry to hear about this - speedy recovery wishes from me as well. And thank you for sharing this single-armed... The fuse you replaced: Was it the exact same fuse (identical manufacturer, part) or a different one? 8 hours ago, Addwyn said: The wheel is running firmware v1.18. Yesterday evening I updated to firmware v1.18 too and intended to ride my KS16 this evening. Now I hesitate because I will have to face a 5 minute incline heading back. I'll probably crawl uphill very slow as if I would still have my 9b1 and extend my arms forward expecting an engine-cut-off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Addwyn I'm really sorry to hear this as safety should be top priority ... Hope for a speedy recovery.... For my understanding does absent mean up or down? Was the wheel fully charged? May we know your weight? Og how was the ambient temperature? We need to report this back to KS as soon as possible... This is NOT okay.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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