Tips to replacing inner tube without pinching

[swollazn]

I have pinched two inner tubes so far. They have circular esque holes (probably from tire spoons) which are too damaged to patch up. I went to a bike shop to confirm this.

I'm not looking forward to this again but i'd like to know what people have learned. Most of the youtube videos do it so quickly and I'm spending so much time and still failing.

[Hellkitten]

https://t.me/EUC_Tire_Chat
some good tire changing talk going on there currently. 

[Big Bad Ron]

You need to put a small amount of air in the tube, not so much that it stops you from getting it on but enough so you don’t pinch it.

that has always worked for me. Wish you luck , it’s not hard just a pain in the A$$🫠

[alcatraz]

The mistake is to jam the tub in uninflated. That damage you describe is only one kind of damage that can occur when this is done.

You want the tube to take shape but not put pressure on the tire. Then it'll seat nicely and untwist etc. Most importantly, it won't bunch up near the bead where your tire levers are.

Also, use hooked levers. If you use something like a flat head screwdriver you'll insert it too deep and catch the tube.

Thinner tubes catch easier than thicker.

[Cerbera]

5 hours ago, swollazn said:

I have pinched two inner tubes so far. They have circular esque holes (probably from tire spoons) which are too damaged to patch up. I went to a bike shop to confirm this.

I'm not looking forward to this again but i'd like to know what people have learned. Most of the youtube videos do it so quickly and I'm spending so much time and still failing.

I'm with you - there is not much more depressing than having gone to all the effort of replacing an inner tube, and getting the tyre wall back under the rim only to find that gutting hissing noise when you first try and inflate it. I also went through 2 cycle inner tubes in a row due to their thin delicate walls and my bad (at the time) tyre iron technique. Even with precisely the right tools there remains some risk of catching that inner tube.

Fixed mine on 3rd attempt using MC inner tube (much thicker, heavier and more robust than cycle equivalent) and by utilizing the 'centre rim' technique to avoid the use of tyre irons almost completely. This is demonstrated by RogerEUC in this excellent video...

The part where the inner tube is most at risk is when you use the irons to lever the tyre under the rim once the inner tube is in place and the valve located in the hole. At this point we should inflat the tube with like 1-3 PSI so it just about holds a circular profile and can't crease any more.

Now, in the video above, Roger uses his tyre irons quite a lot to start getting the tyre back over the rim, but actually the centre rim technique he uses later can be deployed earlier than he starts it, and so much so that last time I did a tyre change on my Master I actually didn't need to use the tyre irons AT ALL for that part. You get one side (by the valve) under (easy initially), then move to other side of tyre, squeeze it and push it hard into the centre of the rim well, then massage that in and up, towards the part that is seated. Then, move back to the seated part, and massage another inch or 2 of tyre over the rim there. Then it's back to the other side to force it once more fully into the rim well, which will enable you to massage another couple inches over, and then it's rinse and repeat all the way round until only the final little section ultra-tight section remains. If you have REALLY strong hands kneeling atop the tyre and massaging hard from both sides should make it pop over, but if not, NOW is the time you can get your large, rounded tyre iron, insert it just the once, the very minimum amount to grip the remaining rubber, and gently lever it over to complete the change.

We should note that whilst this technique is very safe for your inner tube, there is LOT of force required by your hands whilst doing all that tyre massaging, and repeatedly for quite some time, so they can get quite sore, so nitrile gloves recommended !

Edited May 2 by Cerbera

[techyiam]

There are a few key points that can help immensely.

After the inner tube has been installed inside the tire, I used a sheet metal clamp vise grip to pinch the portion of the tire that is directly opposite of the valve stem. You want the tire bead to be in the valley, which has a smaller diameter. For the rims I have encountered, it is usually halfway from the side. Then I lube the tire bead and rim generously with soapy water that has a high concentration of dish soap.  Use your fingers, and ensure the inner tube is behind the rim all the way around so it won't get pinched. Work the tire bead in from the clamp towards the valve stem on both sides of the clamp. For this task, I use a regular plastic bike tire lever. As you get closer to the valve stem, it will become harder and harder to get the bead onto the rim. Be sure to relube, if need be. With the stiffer tubeless tires, I may need to use a metal motorcycle tire iron. Be sure to use a lot of dish soap where the lever is being used. Use it once or maybe on the other side too until the tire bead is no longer that tightly stretched. For the remaining tire bead, I go back using the small plastic bike tire lever to get the bead on. This last part is important, otherwise it is really easy to pinch the inner tube. For the last portion of the task to get the tire bead on the rim, the bead should not be that tight any longer. If it isn't, you did something wrong. Make sure the clamp is placing the tire bead in the valley or a little bit less. And make sure you use high enough concentration of dish soap to ensure tire bead and rim are really slippery.

Edited May 2 by techyiam

[swollazn]

On 5/2/2024 at 4:08 AM, Cerbera said:

I'm with you - there is not much more depressing than having gone to all the effort of replacing an inner tube, and getting the tyre wall back under the rim only to find that gutting hissing noise when you first try and inflate it. I also went through 2 cycle inner tubes in a row due to their thin delicate walls and my bad (at the time) tyre iron technique. Even with precisely the right tools there remains some risk of catching that inner tube.

Fixed mine on 3rd attempt using MC inner tube (much thicker, heavier and more robust than cycle equivalent) and by utilizing the 'centre rim' technique to avoid the use of tyre irons almost completely. This is demonstrated by RogerEUC in this excellent video...

The part where the inner tube is most at risk is when you use the irons to lever the tyre under the rim once the inner tube is in place and the valve located in the hole. At this point we should inflat the tube with like 1-3 PSI so it just about holds a circular profile and can't crease any more.

Now, in the video above, Roger uses his tyre irons quite a lot to start getting the tyre back over the rim, but actually the centre rim technique he uses later can be deployed earlier than he starts it, and so much so that last time I did a tyre change on my Master I actually didn't need to use the tyre irons AT ALL for that part. You get one side (by the valve) under (easy initially), then move to other side of tyre, squeeze it and push it hard into the centre of the rim well, then massage that in and up, towards the part that is seated. Then, move back to the seated part, and massage another inch or 2 of tyre over the rim there. Then it's back to the other side to force it once more fully into the rim well, which will enable you to massage another couple inches over, and then it's rinse and repeat all the way round until only the final little section ultra-tight section remains. If you have REALLY strong hands kneeling atop the tyre and massaging hard from both sides should make it pop over, but if not, NOW is the time you can get your large, rounded tyre iron, insert it just the once, the very minimum amount to grip the remaining rubber, and gently lever it over to complete the change.

We should note that whilst this technique is very safe for your inner tube, there is LOT of force required by your hands whilst doing all that tyre massaging, and repeatedly for quite some time, so they can get quite sore, so nitrile gloves recommended !

Holy thank you so much. I procrastinated installing the tube. After watching this video a few times I did it.

I pumped the tube up, placed it in.

Then slowly used tire spoons a lot, but slowly. I used one tire spoon in, both knees pinching each side (used knees as leverage). Then easily got the tire bead in. Did it all around. No pinches.

assembled the T4 back together and its back in business.

Thank you so much. This was nearly as hard as learning to ride.

[swollazn]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:58 AM, alcatraz said:

The mistake is to jam the tub in uninflated. That damage you describe is only one kind of damage that can occur when this is done.

You want the tube to take shape but not put pressure on the tire. Then it'll seat nicely and untwist etc. Most importantly, it won't bunch up near the bead where your tire levers are.

Also, use hooked levers. If you use something like a flat head screwdriver you'll insert it too deep and catch the tube.

Thinner tubes catch easier than thicker.

That was it, i jammed it in inflated the first 2 times. And I didn't even know I was pinched until after completing it. Tiday I finished installing without any catches.

 

Appreciate the advice!

[Cerbera]

9 minutes ago, swollazn said:

Thank you so much. This was nearly as hard as learning to ride.

You're welcome. I also struggled the first time, which is always the hardest. It will feel 30% easier next time, another 20% easier the time after that, and by the 3rd time you'll be wading in there, all the confidence and can get the whole job done in about an hour.

Edited May 4 by Cerbera

[Tawpie]

kk. My first tire change—and boy did I struggle getting the inner tube back in and the bent valve stem through the hole. Any tricks/tips for that chore? Of course, I punctured my inner tube so I get to do it again, was hoping there's a hint on how to get that dang tube back in!

 

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

kk. My first tire change—and boy did I struggle getting the inner tube back in and the bent valve stem through the hole. Any tricks/tips for that chore? Of course, I punctured my inner tube so I get to do it again, was hoping there's a hint on how to get that dang tube back in!

Is it on your S22?

And which tire?

Edited August 10 by techyiam

[Tawpie]

On 8/9/2024 at 9:15 PM, techyiam said:

Is it on your S22?

And which tire?

yep, the venerable OG ompaloompa... the stock tire profile had gotten pretty squared off, and was running out of nubs!

New tire is a 90/90-14 K66—I'm expecting it to be very squirrly for a while (until I relearn how to ride it).

BUT, I did figure it out on my second try. Put the tube back in without trying to get the valve stem into the hole, then attacking from the side opposite of the 'open' side (from the side that was already on the rim) I could actually see and get hold of the valve stem. Then it was fairly easy to get it into place.

I did entertain going tubeless with the K66 and even bought the valve stem adapter—but once I figured out how to get the dang tube back in figured that setting the bead on a tubeless might be more hassle since I don't have a compressor. So Bezos will get the adapter back.

Interesting thing: the OG tube is at least twice as thick as the spare I'd purchased from one of the retailers. I think it was RevRides but don't remember—I bought it at least two years ago. I can't find my bike tire patch kit so need to get another—the punctured tube is def repairable.

[techyiam]

Just curious, when you remove the tire, were the "spider" back plates, on which the roller rails are fastened to, still on the axle?

I don't pinch inner tubes because I used dish soap and only use 4" plastic bicycle tire levers to put on the tire. In my case, I put on a Shinko 244 2.75-14 tire.

The trick is to start mounting the bead, directly opposite the valve stem first, and be able to keep the mounted portion of the bead in the sunken channel in the middle of the rim to provide more slack. And use dish soap.

Edited August 11 by techyiam

[Funky]

I also use K66 just 80/80-14 size.

Dish soap with water is your friend - you almost don't need tools to mount the tire. Just brute force it on.

FYI: Put valve stem true rim hole and screw on cap, before putting tire on. @Tawpie Ur welcome.  Also air up the tube itself, so it takes up tire form. Don't let it sit in the tire without any air. (Enough air so tube take up tire form..) Tube is sitting inside the tire already, before mounting it on rim..

If tube has no air at all - very easy to pinch..

Edited August 11 by Funky

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Just curious, when you remove the tire, were the "spider" back plates, on which the roller rails are fastened to, still on the axle?

Removed those—I wanted to replace the motor bolts with higher strength ones. Turns out my local industrial screw supplier didn't have anything stronger? 10-9 is the grade stamped into the OG bolts.

 

7 minutes ago, Funky said:

FYI: Put valve stem true rim hole and screw one cap, before putting tire on. @Tawpie Ur welcome.  Also air up the tube itself, so it takes up tire form. Don't let it sit in the tire without any air. (Enough air so tube take up tire form..)

Absolutely thank you! Putting the cap back on wasn't necessary—the shape of the valve stem that made it nearly impossible to get in also makes it nearly impossible to 'slip' out. But ya, I remember the cap trick from changing bike tires and of course, forgot the advice in the heat of the moment. I absolutely did air the tube up some before jabbing at it with tire levers—also put soap on the ends of the levers to hopefully keep them from grabbing. It was a very slippery affair.

You will however, be displeased that the tire alone weighs more than you'd find acceptable for an entire EUC… but what can one do?

[Funky]

32 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

also put soap on the ends of the levers to hopefully keep them from grabbing. It was a very slippery affair.

You will however, be displeased that the tire alone weighs more than you'd find acceptable for an entire EUC… but what can one do?

I personally take big paint brush and go all around the bead of tire with soap. (I don't soap the levers themselves..) And then brute force it 4/5 way on rim. Only at very end i need tire lever to get it on..

Also adding baby powder inside the tire itself helps the tube to "better" stretch/take form. 

Yup - going tubeless M/C tire - i gained whole 1kg weight.. (It literally where 2x the weight of original CST C-1488) But it's thick M/C tire - i'm fine with 1kg weight gain in that matter. Less chances of punctures, etc.. Also slime inside tube.

Edited August 11 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Removed those—I wanted to replace the motor bolts with higher strength ones. Turns out my local industrial screw supplier didn't have anything stronger? 10-9 is the grade stamped into the OG bolts.

Actually, I personally feel the stock bolts are strong enough. The problem is the thread locking compound that was used, which made the bolts unreasonably difficult to loosen. I have go use the right amount of heat to break the bond, which wasn't trivial. Also, the countersunk nature of the bolts eally made them difficult to loosen even without the thread locking compound. 

I only removed the axle bolts because I needed to replace the bearings. I don't remove the spider back plate to change a tire.