Henrik Olsen Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 My review of the new KS16 from KingSong ... I will say it's everything that Ninebot should have done with model P ;-) - I think it's a winner... Summary: I very pleased with the product (based on limited use).. I will say it's everything that Ninebot should have done with model P ;-) - I think it's a winner... Good stuff: It rides really well and offers a nice balance between power, comfort and stability.. Really nice design, very beautiful on the same level as Ninebot.. Material has a good feel and quality seems high.. Riding mode feels a lot stiffer than KS14c Very smart integration of the light (switching direction) Bluetooth seems a lot more intuitive than KS14c Integrated handlebar is a really great idea and it feels solid when it's not extracted.. Anti-slip on the pedal gives a really good contact to the food rest... Pedal height is good for tight turns Side protection cushions are placed perfectly and offers good support.. Rubber plastic cap for the charging port that is attached to the KS16 is really good... Bad/observations: Computer voice is really loud... It's nice at first, but this will annoy me in the long run. can be switched off in the app.. More noisy than expected, high pitch noise is louder than KS14c and the cooling fan inside is notable.. What happens if the fan breaks? Missing a integrated park stand, it would be nice to have a way to park the unit upright and not have to lay it down. Fod pedal does not operate as smooth as I could wish, takes a lot of force to bring the down (minor thing)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCMania Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Hi, Henrik: Thanks for the review. Can you do some tricks with this KS-16, such as pendulum motion, and see how much is the temperature later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 8 hours ago, Henrik Olsen said: More noisy than expected, high pitch noise is louder than KS14c and the cooling fan inside is notable.. What happens if the fan breaks? Maybe this is the first implementation of a built in fan cooling system which is a very good improvement however, this might affect the water proofing of the unit since the incoming and exhausted air should pass though a ventilation shaft (maybe the speaker vents?). Kingsong could have added a couple of these fans as freebies or should have them ready for sale as spares in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 The cooling fans, as we know from personal computers, could get pretty noisy when dusted...aah, there is no easy (and cheap) solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 As far as I can see it's a blower and not a axial fan... Blowers are more resistant to dust etc. They move less air but at a higher pressure... Lets see, I think the fan noise is not such a big issue it's less noticable than the high pitch noise generated by the electronics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 @SlowMo could be an issue, but it really depends on their strategy... Cooling of hotposts can be improved by adding a fan even with intake and exhaust limited or blocked... It's clearly no match for fresh air circulation, but can help even out the heat intensive areas internally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 34 minutes ago, Henrik Olsen said: @SlowMo could be an issue, but it really depends on their strategy... Cooling of hotposts can be improved by adding a fan even with intake and exhaust limited or blocked... It's clearly no match for fresh air circulation, but can help even out the heat intensive areas internally... For sure they are on the right path on solving the overheating issues. Only time will tell if this implementation would be sufficient since these units are the first production betas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I think that making a "large enough" heatsink that partially protrudes from inside the case (on the top of the wheel/under the handle?) with fins could be a very efficient solution (moving the heat outside the mainboard compartment). Don't know if it would spoil the looks for some people, and of course it would have to be properly sealed to prevent dust and liquids from entering. Water cooling is probably not an option, too high risk of a pipe breaking and spilling liquid on the board / inside the wheel. Peltier-elements could probably keep the heat down a lot, but would in turn need a heck of a heatsink themselves If you think how long those basic small "computer"-fans work, the lifetime probably won't be an issue, barring any really hard shocks or such, but of course could become noisy over time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCMania Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Standard computer fans or blowers are not designed to work in an environment where there is a lot of vibrations. On the other hand, making the whole panel facing the wheel with metal and connect it to the board's heat sink and using heat conducting paste may be a better solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andress Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 30 minutes ago, ECUMania said: On the other hand, making the whole panel facing the wheel with metal and connect it to the board's heat sink and using heat conducting paste may be a better solution? That is already happening on my KS14C. I could see it very well when changing the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Cooling fan is not a good idea for EUC. It implies substandard control board, which burns a lot of power, I'd prefer power to be burned by motor. It's also probably the reason, why KS16 is not waterproof (no IP rating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, mich said: Cooling fan is not a good idea for EUC. It implies substandard control board, which burns a lot of power, I'd prefer power to be burned by motor. All control-boards generate heat, that's why almost all heat-sinks are exposed to the Wheel housing. As the power ratings continues to increase, this passive cooling is insufficient if/when riding on hot weather or driving the machine hard... Fan-assisted cooling in the confined space is not perfect, but some of this heat will radiate out to the surrounding shell & eventually dissipate. Control-board heat build up was probably the cause of Ninebot pulling the P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 @Jason McNeil totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 On 4/2/2016 at 10:13 PM, Jason McNeil said: All control-boards generate heat, that's why almost all heat-sinks are exposed to the Wheel housing. As the power ratings continues to increase, this passive cooling is insufficient if/when riding on hot weather or driving the machine hard... Fan-assisted cooling in the confined space is not perfect, but some of this heat will radiate out to the surrounding shell & eventually dissipate. Control-board heat build up was probably the cause of Ninebot pulling the P. Not necessarily. A few years ago, PC power supplies delivered 200W with AC to DC conversion efficiency 70-80%, equipped with fan. Nowadays 300-400W PSU are more common, and some of them are even fanless due to 90-95% efficiency. There are a quite a few EUs with similarly powerful motor as KS16 (800W), at least according to spec, none of them, as far as I know, has fan built in. Therefore I think it's a valid question, whether the fan inside KS16 is improvement over older models, which should lower temperatures during hot summer days, or whether it's a cost cutting measure used to compensate for lower quality electronic and smaller heatsinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, mich said: Not necessarily. A few years ago, PC power supplies delivered 200W with AC to DC conversion efficiency 70-80%, equipped with fan. Nowadays 300-400W PSU are more common, and some of them are even fanless due to 90-95% efficiency. There are a quite a few EUs with similarly powerful motor as KS16 (800W), at least according to spec, none of them, as far as I know, has fan built in. Therefore I think it's a valid question, whether the fan inside KS16 is improvement over older models, which should lower temperatures during hot summer days, or whether it's a cost cutting measure used to compensate for lower quality electronic and smaller heatsinks. ??? Has nothing to do with PC Control boards...and it is not for cost reducing, but as adittional to the heatsink! The EUC's have some ver "fat" Mosfets...when these burn you have a very nice faceplant. Every (good) EUC has a temperature control (around 70 degrees) and it's a well known Problem for all powerful EUC's to have heat Problems on very Long climbs, on hot days even more... So to put a power fan to the board, additionally to the heat sink, i think is a good idea. As Henrik Olsen is reporting in one of his Videos....the temperature is about 10 to 15 degrees less with the fan in comparison to his KS14. So less Chance of burning mosfets which is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 We veered way off topic, sorry about that... Split the mosfet-conversation here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 @Henrik Olsen Thanks a lot for your review! I'd like to know the distance of the pedals measured from the ground. Riding the Ninebot I already added some scratches to the pedals when doing hard turns. So it would be interesting if the KS16 is also suitable for doing some tricks - not just moving from A to B... ;-} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetMeatNYC Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 On 4/2/2016 at 0:46 PM, ECUMania said: Standard computer fans or blowers are not designed to work in an environment where there is a lot of vibrations. On the other hand, making the whole panel facing the wheel with metal and connect it to the board's heat sink and using heat conducting paste may be a better solution? So like a Ninebot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 On 4. april 2016 at 0:58 AM, One said: @Henrik Olsen Thanks a lot for your review! I'd like to know the distance of the pedals measured from the ground. Riding the Ninebot I already added some scratches to the pedals when doing hard turns. So it would be interesting if the KS16 is also suitable for doing some tricks - not just moving from A to B... ;-} Look at 0:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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